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   /  Amiga OS4 Software
      /  I think we need MOS emu...And I will explain you why...
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Chip 
Re: I think we need MOS emu...And I will explain you why...
Posted on 27-Sep-2006 8:58:16
#81 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 4-Mar-2005
Posts: 574
From: Budapest, Hungary

@Tuxedo

Quote:
I think we need MOSemu, I dont want a war here.


What about asking your favourite MOS software's developer to port the stuff to OS4 instead of repeating yourself? Let us know what are the responses!

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CodeSmith 
Re: I think we need MOS emu...And I will explain you why...
Posted on 27-Sep-2006 9:15:05
#82 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 3045
From: USA

@Chip

My guess is, when you mention amigas running OS4 you'll get something along the lines of "you can BUY those?"

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hatschi 
Re: I think we need MOS emu...And I will explain you why...
Posted on 27-Sep-2006 10:04:45
#83 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 1-Dec-2005
Posts: 2328
From: Good old Europe.

@Samwel

Quote:
Don't know why anyone would put so much time into such a useless software?!?


How can you say that this software would be useless? Only because it would be useless to you? So it would be "useless" to have access to apps such as Blender, Showgirls, Sputnik on OS4? I guess you would only touch them when they would be ported to OS4 rrright?

Quote:
Fine if MorphOS (some) users feel the need for it. I guess most just want it for taunting purposes anyway.


Eh? What kind of weird logic is that?

Quote:
It's not that hard to do both MOS & OS4 versions


You wouldn't even need to do that if you had a fairly good MOSemu. Would be even easier and no additional hardware (that is still lacking) would be needed.

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Chip 
Re: I think we need MOS emu...And I will explain you why...
Posted on 27-Sep-2006 10:21:07
#84 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 4-Mar-2005
Posts: 574
From: Budapest, Hungary

@hatschi

I think several times it were told: Blender port needs better OpenGL support. Warp3D will be dropped in favour of Mesa. How does a mosemu would help in that?

Please see the technical reasons not just the "I want it and the bad developers don't".
If you want MOS softwares to run on OS4, ask the authors to port it. It needs LESS effort to do and now we are lacking of manpower.

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hatschi 
Re: I think we need MOS emu...And I will explain you why...
Posted on 27-Sep-2006 10:28:03
#85 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 1-Dec-2005
Posts: 2328
From: Good old Europe.

@Chip

Quote:
Blender port needs better OpenGL support. Warp3D will be dropped in favour of Mesa. How does a mosemu would help in that?


It was just an example. Anyway, due to the above reasons, just porting it to OS4 wouldn't help either in this case...

Quote:
If you want MOS softwares to run on OS4, ask the authors to port it.


The authors who did the MOS-version? Except for some rare examples (e.g. Chain-Q) there are not many coders who have access to both MOS and OS4.

Quote:
It needs LESS effort to do and now we are lacking of manpower.


Err... Let's see it from the MOS-perspective: porting e.g. Milkytracker to MOS would be less effort than *just running it* under OS4emu?

Last edited by hatschi on 27-Sep-2006 at 10:28 AM.

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itix 
Re: I think we need MOS emu...And I will explain you why...
Posted on 27-Sep-2006 10:56:38
#86 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 22-Dec-2004
Posts: 3398
From: Freedom world

@Chip

Speaking of developers is, avcodec.library for OS4 yours? If so, why it has CallHookPkt() calling 68k code in library init?

_________________
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Amiga 500, Efika, Mac Mini and PowerBook

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jkirk 
Re: I think we need MOS emu...And I will explain you why...
Posted on 27-Sep-2006 11:07:13
#87 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 28-Jan-2005
Posts: 3349
From: Georgia (usa)

@Samwel

Quote:
Fine if MorphOS (some) users feel the need for it. I guess most just want it for taunting purposes anyway.

first off i don't understand this argument. what would mos users gain for having mosemu on os4. they already have os4emu so for them they already have the best of both worlds.

Quote:
Don't know why anyone would put so much time into such a useless software?!? Code real applications instead. It's not that hard to do both MOS & OS4 versions of a software. If it is, so what? Keep the software on its platform. A similar will appear on the other sooner or later anyway.


because as it has been said many times. there are not enough developers to support both platforms independantly. when you have one or two people working on a given program and it takes years to complete why wouldn't you have a way for both systems to use it rather than spending another couple of years to port their original work. i honestly think this just makes sense. this duplication of effort must cease or we will never see either system become viable. if hyperion would(and this is just conjecture) work with the os4emu author to create a legal way to obtain critical libraries(or at least a distributable equivalent) so we can bridge the gap between the two systems and vice versa for mos. the development time and costs can be lessened and then it would only be a case of which os do you like best and not which os has more programs i can use.

i really think that this is the only way to give this platform a needed jumpstart and allow us to focus on the future instead of each other. also i really believe the BEST way of going forward is for the mos team and the os4 team to collaborate and create a common api between each other. this would eliminate the need for cross platform wrappers.

Last edited by jkirk on 27-Sep-2006 at 11:08 AM.

_________________
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Chip 
Re: I think we need MOS emu...And I will explain you why...
Posted on 27-Sep-2006 11:35:30
#88 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 4-Mar-2005
Posts: 574
From: Budapest, Hungary

@hatschi

Quote:
The authors who did the MOS-version? Except for some rare examples (e.g. Chain-Q) there are not many coders who have access to both MOS and OS4.


That's why crosscompilers were invented and they can test the result with os4emu, right?

Quote:
Err... Let's see it from the MOS-perspective: porting e.g. Milkytracker to MOS would be less effort than *just running it* under OS4emu?


Well, os4emu isn't grown in the bushes, so porting Milkytracker for MOS is less work than developing os4emu to that level.

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Chip 
Re: I think we need MOS emu...And I will explain you why...
Posted on 27-Sep-2006 11:36:37
#89 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 4-Mar-2005
Posts: 574
From: Budapest, Hungary

@itix

Don't know, it was a long time ago. Maybe because of moovid - which is still a 68k binary -.

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elwood 
Re: I think we need MOS emu...And I will explain you why...
Posted on 27-Sep-2006 11:40:27
#90 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 17-Sep-2003
Posts: 3427
From: Lyon, France

@Samwel

Quote:
I'm a OS4 user and DON'T want MOSEmu for OS4.


I agree and I prefer to be able to say "if they need OS4emu, it means our OS is damn cool!"

_________________
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Sam460 1.10 Ghz
AmigaOS 4 betatester
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dietmar 
Re: I think we need MOS emu...And I will explain you why...
Posted on 27-Sep-2006 11:45:22
#91 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 1-May-2003
Posts: 532
From: Unknown

@elwood
> it means our OS is damn cool!

Don't you want a hot OS?

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Samwel 
Re: I think we need MOS emu...And I will explain you why...
Posted on 27-Sep-2006 11:49:37
#92 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 7-Apr-2004
Posts: 3404
From: Sweden

@jkirk

Quote:

first off i don't understand this argument. what would mos users gain for having mosemu on os4. they already have os4emu so for them they already have the best of both worlds.


My mistake, should have said "OS4Emu" instead of "it". Will change it.


I don't feel the need for this application. This has nothing to do with red or blue. I think it's
better to do real native software. For MorphOS aswell. Better to ask for a native version
or in any other way assist the developer to make versions for both OS's.
When the hardware for OS4 is released I guess most things will change.
Sorry, but I see no future at all for MorphOS. They have some amazingly good coders though.
Nothing negative about the OS itself, that's just my POV.

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Samwel 
Re: I think we need MOS emu...And I will explain you why...
Posted on 27-Sep-2006 11:51:49
#93 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 7-Apr-2004
Posts: 3404
From: Sweden

@itix

Quote:

Speaking of developers is, avcodec.library for OS4 yours? If so, why it has CallHookPkt() calling 68k code in library init?


Are you checking others code randomly or what? Or is this only for OS4 software?
This was pretty low!!!

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hatschi 
Re: I think we need MOS emu...And I will explain you why...
Posted on 27-Sep-2006 11:51:50
#94 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 1-Dec-2005
Posts: 2328
From: Good old Europe.

@Chip
Quote:

Chip wrote:
@hatschi
Quote:
Err... Let's see it from the MOS-perspective: porting e.g. Milkytracker to MOS would be less effort than *just running it* under OS4emu?


Well, os4emu isn't grown in the bushes, so porting Milkytracker for MOS is less work than developing os4emu to that level.


The comparison is flawed because you just have to develop OS4emu **once**, while you have to port/compile each software on it's own which means a lot **more** work if you sum it up.

@elwood
Quote:

elwood wrote:
@Samwel

Quote:
I'm a OS4 user and DON'T want MOSEmu for OS4.


I agree and I prefer to be able to say "if they need OS4emu, it means our OS is damn cool!"


Yep, OS4 is quite cool. But that's not the point in doing OS4emu. The point of OS4emu is to run programms which were only written for OS4. Just like the point of MOSemu is to run some MOS-only apps that are not available to OS4. I can't see what is so bad about that or why an extra choice of software would make people saying "I DON'T want to touch it!!1!!".

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Chip 
Re: I think we need MOS emu...And I will explain you why...
Posted on 27-Sep-2006 12:00:49
#95 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 4-Mar-2005
Posts: 574
From: Budapest, Hungary

@hatschi

Quote:
The comparison is flawed because you just have to develop OS4emu **once**, while you have to port/compile each software on it's own which means a lot **more** work if you sum it up.


Well, we are stuck here, because IMHO in summary it's less work to port each apps instead of writing an API wrapper. Anyway, only itix can tell how much hours of work lies in his project. I assume, it wasn't a 5 minutes game...

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Samwel 
Re: I think we need MOS emu...And I will explain you why...
Posted on 27-Sep-2006 12:02:22
#96 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 7-Apr-2004
Posts: 3404
From: Sweden

@hatschi

What's this sh*t about not running it because its not native??? Don't words in other peoples
mouths because you don't agree with their POV, please.

This has to do with me wanting support for OS4 and not any other OS. Simple as that.
I'm not for any 68k applications either. If the developers find time or have the will to do a 68k
version then fine. If not then make OS4 evolve, do some NATIVE code. OS4 will not grow if
the most "important" applications are emulated/wrapped.

What people could do is bounty's with both OS4 & MorphOS versions required instead of just
the one.

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hatschi 
Re: I think we need MOS emu...And I will explain you why...
Posted on 27-Sep-2006 12:03:52
#97 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 1-Dec-2005
Posts: 2328
From: Good old Europe.

@Samwel

Quote:
I don't feel the need for this application. This has nothing to do with red or blue. I think it's better to do real native software. For MorphOS aswell. Better to ask for a native version
or in any other way assist the developer to make versions for both OS's.


Yes, it would be nice to have *everything* native, yadadada. But that's just wishful thinking. Ever checked how many real native OS4/MOS-games there are compared to the number of SDL games? There are just not enough resources and developers for do that amount of work that *you* would like to have. Of course, you could always "ask" for a native version, but that doesn't mean that they will do it and it is rather obvious from the past that this is frequently not realistic.
So if there is a way to run software from other OS and have access to some additional applications, why the heck *not* use it? What's so *bad* about it anyway? If you could run Sputnik using MOSemu, you wouldn't touch it because you "don't see the need for it", rrright?

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hatschi 
Re: I think we need MOS emu...And I will explain you why...
Posted on 27-Sep-2006 12:10:21
#98 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 1-Dec-2005
Posts: 2328
From: Good old Europe.

@Samwel

Quote:
This has to do with me wanting support for OS4 and not any other OS. Simple as that.


Again, nothing but wishful thinking: "I want, I want", "It would be better". The reality in our tiny niche "market" is different. Why not use possibilities for achieving better compatibility between both OS? What is so "useless" (like you said) about that?

Quote:
OS4 will not grow if the most "important" applications are emulated/wrapped.


The applications are not emulated. Better make yourself familiar with the concept.

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SlayeR__ 
Re: I think we need MOS emu...And I will explain you why...
Posted on 27-Sep-2006 12:12:17
#99 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 24-Dec-2002
Posts: 634
From: Unknown

@All

Is someone coding or will start coding an MOS emu ?, if it isnt made or will be made theres really no point in you arguing about it.

Just my 2 cents.

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Chip 
Re: I think we need MOS emu...And I will explain you why...
Posted on 27-Sep-2006 12:13:45
#100 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 4-Mar-2005
Posts: 574
From: Budapest, Hungary

@hatschi

Games? Our OS isn't finished yet. The API is changing, it's damn early to think in games. First let the OS ready. Then the most important utility apps (Browser,Word processor) and after that the native games can came into picture.

And this sputnik mania (like the pixel32) also... Please let the author finish it first. Why do you want an wrapper for a program which isn't public yet? Come'on!!

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