@falemagn

Quote:

Just wanted to clarify your points, for they might have made the situation look rosier than it is.

If you are thinking that I was subtly suggesting that AOS4 may have already full MP*, then, no, it was not neither in my words nor in my intentions. I just reported the facts and properly underlined the points I was not so sure about with the necessary information.

*With this I'm not suggesting that AOS4 is going to have full MP anytime soon
When/if there will be full MP, I can't tell.

saimo

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RETREAM - retro dreams for Amiga, Commodore 64 and PC

@COBRA

I wonder, would it be possible to run OS4 on one core, and Linux on the other core? And somehow be able to switch between them? That could be quite kickass. Somehow I dont think its that simple though. Maybe someone with more technical know how could explain if this is possible?

I voted No. One of the reasons why I want to have a PPC Amiga is that i86 processors are too hot, cannot be passivly cooled without a tank of a case, too power consuming and they are just awful. Amiga's will just become all about the Mhz and performace of the CPU like PC's are, there will be confusion about whether their Amiga has enough power to run a certain game, just like we have with PC's. Basically your just transfering all the bad things about todays "PC" world onto the Amiga. I think the Amiga should be more standardised which will greatly help the "fun" factor of having one, and people wont be thinking "Oo, should I have bought the 3.5Ghz one or the 4 Ghz?" etc etc.

And what about boot times? Does it mean saying goodbye to beautiful quick boots and hello PC BIOS? No thanks.

Last edited by Rit on 27-Oct-2006 at 01:35 PM.

@Hannibal_Smith

Quote:

Why couldn't you have a $500 complete x86 motherboard in a case with OS4?

I already have one of those - just without OS4.

If it was about cheaper hardware I would have bought an Atari ST all those years ago.

If it was about the most popular hardware I would have bought an Atari ST or a PC (certainly most people I knew had the ST).

I can only see OS4 attracting the right attention by being different, running on PDAs or a console.

@jahc

Quote:

I wonder, would it be possible to run OS4 on one core, and Linux on the other core? And somehow be able to switch between them? That could be quite kickass. Somehow I dont think its that simple though. Maybe someone with more technical know how could explain if this is possible?

The rest of the system resources would be shared anyway, and thus additional management would be needed. If you are thinking of AOS4 and Linux in their current form, it can't be done because none of them would even know about the presence of the other. One could think of having a minimal "master" system that takes care of the OS switching (which would be unpractical as it would be more or less the equivalent of freezing the current OS and unfreezing the other), but this "master" system would require other HW resources (unknown to AOS4 and Linux) in order to run (at least a CPU, dedicated memory, a BIOS and some special HW part that gives the additional CPU full access and control over the HW exposed to AOS4 and Linux).
Anybody willing to write a sci-fi book?

saimo

Last edited by saimo on 27-Oct-2006 at 01:45 PM.
Last edited by saimo on 27-Oct-2006 at 01:41 PM.

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RETREAM - retro dreams for Amiga, Commodore 64 and PC

@Raffaele

Quote:

Raffaele wrote: ... One voice rumor said they had spended their very last money to bought a batch of 5 or 10 PPC 8641 evaluation processors,

If they spend their *last* money on such b4 finishing their last project (read: Sam), they aren't too clever businesswise...

Quote:

(8641 is the new double core G4 clocked at 1,7 GHz each).

Wrong, the 8641 is *not* a dual core processor. You are mixing ist up with the 8641D. It's an important difference, because currently the 8641 would make much more sense for an amigaish system, because there is no multi processor support.

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My programs: via.bckrs.de
MorphOS user since V0.4 (2001)

@Rit

Quote:

I voted No. One of the reasons why I want to have a PPC Amiga is that i86 processors are too hot,

My AMD Turion MT processor is passively cooled@1Ghz i.e. cooling fan is not running in this clock speed.

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Ryzen 9 7900X, DDR5-6000 64 GB RAM, GeForce RTX 4080 16 GB
Amiga 1200 (Rev 1D1, KS 3.2, PiStorm32lite/RPi 4B 4GB/Emu68)
Amiga 500 (Rev 6A, KS 3.2, PiStorm/RPi 3a/Emu68)

@Zylesea

Quote:

If they spend their *last* money on such b4 finishing their last project (read: Sam), they aren't too clever businesswise...

Apart from the fact that Raffaele is only talking about rumours, where did you read that they did not secure the necessary funds for the Samantha project? The rumour could refer to just the remaining money besides the Samantha (and other projects) budget

saimo

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RETREAM - retro dreams for Amiga, Commodore 64 and PC

@all

This is a crosspost from another thread:

Quote:

What about developers will they have to produce several different executables for each piece of software, an x86 version and a PPC version, or would we have to produce FAT binaries.

You got a good point there.

I would like that OS4 stays on the PPC as a developer and
amiga-users platform. If you guys want AmigaOS on the PC
then go ahead with OS5 or something in the like.

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A1G3-SE + OS4.1 u1 iso (x2)

Edit: Never mind, I got confused.

Plaz

Last edited by Plaz on 27-Oct-2006 at 02:03 PM.

@Benji

Quote:

Benji wrote: @Hannibal_Smith Quote: Why couldn't you have a $500 complete x86 motherboard in a case with OS4? I already have one of those - just without OS4.

My point was the choices that you were offering were uneven.

Quote:

If it was about cheaper hardware I would have bought an Atari ST all those years ago. If it was about the most popular hardware I would have bought an Atari ST or a PC (certainly most people I knew had the ST).

It's not about popularity, or price, but about being able to sustain a supply of hardware and about creating value.

Quote:

I can only see OS4 attracting the right attention by being different, running on PDAs or a console.

Yes. Let's not worry about actually using this, let's worry about the attention we can get from being a novelty.

@COBRA

Quote:

The intel core chips are impressive, although the MPC8641D will be hard to beat with 15-25W typical for CPU+DDR2+PCIE controller together at 2GHz.

Current shipping AMD Turion X2 (CPU, NB/MCHs @core speed, DDR2, HTT) @2.2Ghz with 35Watts (max power).

Last edited by Hammer on 27-Oct-2006 at 02:16 PM.

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Ryzen 9 7900X, DDR5-6000 64 GB RAM, GeForce RTX 4080 16 GB
Amiga 1200 (Rev 1D1, KS 3.2, PiStorm32lite/RPi 4B 4GB/Emu68)
Amiga 500 (Rev 6A, KS 3.2, PiStorm/RPi 3a/Emu68)

@Hannibal_Smith

Quote:

Quote: Nonsense. Care to elaborate?

Sure. "You decide" is nonsense, since we *don't* decide. And neither do Carl S, for all I can tell.

Right or wrong (doesn't really matter now), the decision to make OS4 PPC was made in 2002 if my memory serves me right. This resulted in an incredible work effort being started, with at least a dozen people working hard, during months and months, year after year. Most of them probably never got paid according to their work, but they kept on for the cause, maybe hoping for some future reward when the PPC migration was complete.

Still today, at the end of 2006, no final OS4 PPC has been released. The PPC migration is not yet complete. It has been a long-haul, and during this long time, a great deal of the community has dropped off, and this is crucial. Without the community, OS4 would just be one other of all them new OS's that pops up from time to time, only to never go anywhere. The *people* are key, the community, the creative ones, the developers and power users. Worth more than any money. Without the people, there would be no point.

And here comes Carl Sassenrath, saying "hey people, remember me from the old-time Amiga-fame? Great to be here. Say, who would like to have OS4 running on x86, so you can use cheap and powerful hardware, including laptops? You decide!". And suddenly people are cheering, dancing in circles, crying hallelujah. Now people think that it's time for another long-haul, for another migration, even though OS4 hasn't even landed on PPC yet, no great rewards has been "paid out" (meaning not only money, actually,probably *not* meaning money at all) to anyone. Nothing has yet been harvested from the efforts of going PPC, nothing to cover for the great cost, both financially, in work/time spent, and in community losses.

I don't think the community could take another migration. And who would pay for it? Who would do the work in practice? A new set of investments in all kind of dimensions is required, and I don't think there is any more in the bank to take from, be it money, "free-time", developers, and community. No new seed to saw with, at least not before some major harvesting of what has been put into the ground already.

Carl starts with a lot of "what if", like this issue has never been discussed before. What's the difference this time? That the questions comes from Carl Sassenrath?

Does Carl have *any* mandate to decide where OS4 goes? If not, "You decide" = Nonsense! And in that case I must say I am a little curious about Carl's motives behind this poll?

@Hammer

Quote:

Hammer wrote: @COBRA Quote: The intel core chips are impressive, although the MPC8641D will be hard to beat with 15-25W typical for CPU+DDR2+PCIE controller together at 2GHz. Current shipping AMD Turion X2 (CPU, NB/MCHs @core speed, DDR2, HTT) @1.8Ghz with 25watts, @2.2Ghz with 35Watts (max power).

This meant 10 Wats more at 0,2 GHZ less then MPC8641D is better

_________________
No PowerPC, No Fun
Make Amiga Great Again

@Amigablitter

I think you and Raffaele know more than we think...



As with almost all the Amiga threads they all end up in smoke, (dual core, x86, PPC, portable, scalable, laptops, desktops, emulated (yuk!)..... I am going to go and get myself a vanilla 1200 off ebay....) LOL!

Let's stick to the point, where is Carl-S gone? Come back please LOL!

I am going nuts...(I have started singing Volare....oh, oh, cantare, oh oh oh oh, nel blu dipinto di blu, felice di stare quassu'! by Domenico Modugno....why? I don't know!)

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www.loriano.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk

@takemehomegrandma

Quote:

That the questions comes from Carl Sassenrath?

Let's pretend it was Jay Miner asking those questions... of course the reason behind it is because Carl is the one making them..
.

Last edited by pixie on 27-Oct-2006 at 02:19 PM.

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Indigo 3D Lounge, my second home.
The Illusion of Choice | Am*ga

@takemehomegrandma

>Does Carl have *any* mandate to decide where OS4 goes? If not, "You decide" = Nonsense! And in that case I must say I am a little curious about Carl's motives behind this poll?

As stated previoulsy I think Carl-S is going to be the new President!

Carl-S for President!

Yeah!

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www.loriano.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk

@Hammer

Yes, for the first time in how many years, AMD and Intel have actually taken a bit of a step forward with their processors instead of just bumping up power requirements to get more performance out of the chips. I'm not quite ready to start praising them just yet.

@Fransexy

Quote:

This meant 10 Wats more at 0,2 GHZ less then MPC8641D is better

Not to mention that the Turion X2 has only 333MHz DDR2 controller (as opposed to 667MHz on the MPC8641D) and AFAIK no PCI-Express controller, thus it still requires a northbridge for that. But the MPC8641D is not shipping yet.

@Rit

Quote:

Rit wrote: @Hammer Yes, for the first time in how many years, AMD and Intel have actually taken a bit of a step forward with their processors instead of just bumping up power requirements to get more performance out of the chips. I'm not quite ready to start praising them just yet.

Intel learnt their mistake from pentium 4. Sure increasing the pipeline meant they could boast bigger clock speeds - but the chips were soo inefficient and power hungry they were a joke.

One of the main reasons why Apple went Intel was down to power consumption - no PPC chips exist that use less power and generate less heat while giving more performance than Core Duo. Pentium M really is awsome.

Why PPC?