Quote:

Varthall wrote: @Hammer If the 68k Macintoshes would be the most used and widespread platform around, and would be built by countless manufacturers, you could bet some people would start seeing the Amiga as a Macintosh. Especially if Amigas and Macintoshes would differ solely in the used firmware. I also see the Intel Macs as PCs. Varthall

Using “Out-Of-The-Box” test, 68K Amigas doesn’t run 68K MacOS nor its applications.

Without the aid of Shapeshifter (i.e. VMWARE like product), Amiga doesn’t duplicate Mac Firmware’s ecosystem.

Last edited by Hammer on 18-Dec-2006 at 08:06 AM.

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@nzv58l

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I would rather see something resonably priced that ran OS4 out of the box with OS4 installed on it as the primary OS. Having it downloaded to PC's and not knowing if any of those people are even using it is not going to attract real developers.

Maybe or maybe not, yet it would satisfy a general requirement of business- to actually make some money, which the current situation and foreseeable future, at least as a 'desktop OS,' doesn't seem to do.

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I would also not be happy with just a port to the PS3 unless it were properly sanctioned by Sony as the primary OS for these machines.

I think you are FAR exaggerating the potential of OS4 beyond the hobbyist market. What reason would Sony possibly _ever_ have to do such a thing?!?

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Although it may be a good idea to try the Cell processor out under OS4 until another board can be made to utilize the Cell.

'another board'? Another what, $5000 'special' Cell board? No thanks. OS4 potential desktop sales simply aren't enough to make 'custom' hardware even remotely feasible price-wise.

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Are we not done with the same silly arguments and flames yet??!

@wegster

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OS4 potential desktop sales simply aren't enough to make 'custom' hardware even remotely feasible price-wise.

I heard this kind of "excuse" a lot of times all these years and always appear a garage guy or company that makes something in their spare time.I could put a lot examples but the most recent is minimig.Amiga inc (or A international or A technologies or any of their names across the years) always said that reimplementing the amiga chipset is impossible economically and then a guy in their spare time in one year makes the magic.Now all the companies that said that was impractical go as vultures to knock the door of him.Is the pocket of this guy more depth that Amigainc? NO could amiga inc make the same with 2 or 3 full time engineers in 3 or 4 month? Yes But obviously is better to wait that a bedroom engineer makes it and then buy to them the device.0 investment 100% benefits

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Make Amiga Great Again

@Fransexy

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I heard this kind of "excuse" a lot of times (...)

"Excuse"? For what? No excuses are needed - just let facts and history speak for themselves and you'll see that "custom" hardware has lead us nowhere. And if you would take economy of scale into consideration, you would agree that there is no reason why it could possibly change in the future.

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a garage guy or company that makes something in their spare time.I could put a lot examples but the most recent is minimig.

While I agree that Minimig is awesome and Dennis a talented guy, how does that relate to the *feasibility* and *viability* of "custom" PPC hardware?
First, you can't compare the design of C64DTV and Minimig to the design efforts (and investment!) required for "custom" PPC/Cell-based hardware (the past failures and time needed with a shortage of capital and man-power speaks volumes).
Second, gadgets such as C64DTV and Minimig have a completely different purpose than a PPC or Cell-based "custom" Amiga platform and could therefore be produced in *much* larger quantities. OS4 as a desktop OS for old-time Amiga enthusiasts simply doesn't make it feasible to design a "custom" platform for it. The only "benefit" you'll get from such "custom" hardware are much higher prices due to insanely low production volumes which ultimately result in even less people being interested in you obscure "OS+custom hw" package.
Care to elaborate what the *advantages* of "custom" hardware are despite the many disadvantages? So far, you have always failed to do so...

Last edited by hatschi on 18-Dec-2006 at 05:51 PM.

@hatschi

-First the minimig are only one example
-second why always are you the one that respond against me? Have you a fixation with me?
-And last but not least, what has happened with your pic? looks a bit 80ish

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Make Amiga Great Again

@Fransexy

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Have you a fixation with me?

Hehe, nope, sorry to disappoint you.

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And last but not least, what has happened with your pic? looks a bit 80ish

I only made the color palette compatible for the plethora of people browsing this forum with a C64.

@Carl-S

I voted no.

Now if it happens that AmigaOS ALSO runs on commodity x86 hardware that would be OK
with me and I might use it. I don't have anything against x86.

However, if AmigaOS specific hardware, that is custom hardware, were to disappear then that
would signal to me that the PLATFORM is gone. The community would probably dissolve into
discussions of game play, twitter sites and pleas for how to get things more Windows like.

I am here because of what an Amiga system means. There's no 'community' in the windows
world. Apple kicked their community in the teeth.

There is something special and necessary here, , , and it's tied strongly to the platform.

So I voted no.

@Mechanic

Well 4 years late is better than never.

Plaz

@Mechanic

A PLATFORM is a lot more than the CPU and its architecture.

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All the way, with 68k

@agami

Read the man's comment and reply to what he's actually said, rather than what you've assumed he's said.

He's voted no to the AmigaOS becoming a 'commodity OS'. So, he doesn't like the idea of it being just a LiveCD that you could just pop into a random PC box and go. But he's also said that he would have no objection to an x86-based AmigaOS box at some point in the future. He wants there to be an Amiga case running the AmigaOS - an integrated platform like the Mac.

Nothing wrong with that.

Obviously, a full x86 port of the OS is currently out of the question. But phoenixkonsole (the guy behind the AresOne machines) has proposed an interesting mechanism to allow the AmigaOS to be run on x86, albeit at reduced speed. Hopefully, the speed and responsiveness of the AmigaOS would allow a 2.5GHz PC to feel 2.5GHz-y despite the performance overheads.

From my experience, AmigaOS on a 733MHz Sam feels better than Windows on my 1.8GHz PC laptop, so its not beyond the realms of possibility.

@T-J

Thanks T-J.

I was just about to head out the door, find some kid and slap the hell out of him.

I will read this thread no further.

@Carl-S

Quote:

Carl-S wrote: Sometimes a specific test case provides better insight than an abstract definition. So, here is a test question. What if: 1. Amiga OS 4 ran on a modern PC box/laptop, and 2. Classic Amiga apps and games emulated "perfectly" on that same box. How would you feel about that? How many people here would use it immediately? How many of us would be building new applications, new games, porting over good software, selling PC/OS4 packages, integrating new hardware, putting OS4 into schools, and ... you get the idea... How many would still wait for PPC hardware? So, that's the razor. You decide.

Again 2006 Carl. Yes, i'd still buy it right now if what you said came true. I think CPU is not relevant these days and the PPC way is far to expensive.

Last edited by SHADES on 24-Oct-2010 at 02:48 AM.

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@Plaz

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Well 4 years late is better than never.

Well in that case, I voted yes. And I plan to come back in 2014 and vote again.

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@TrevorDick

Yes

I can't believe Carl has come on here with this and not checked himself prior

This is one of those things that could? be done but should never be; If it ever happens that would truely be the end of the Amiga, it would lose its soul (yes the Amiga has a community created soul)

I've been an Amiga User since day one, I own ALOT of classic machines, I own an AmigaOne, I currently own 3 SAMs and I will also own an X1000 and the list will keep growing (I'm hoping for an X1000 upgrade/another machine in the not too distant future)

I've probably spent close to $100,000.00 on the Amiga over the last 25 years LOL

Don't you DARE throw our respected AmigaOS onto the plague that is PC Just to please the masses (because I think there are alot of people in this category) so they can simply pop it on there PC and go look I can quad boot now into another OS I do not need to pay for or support its software... you think about this? who the hell wants the BEST OS in the world to become a freaking portable OS... Grrrrrr... I hate to say it but really, go support AROS or MORPHOS, they are already portable and leave the hard stuff to the True Amigans...

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1x AmigaOne X5000 2.0GHz 2gM RadeonR9280X AOS4.x
3x AmigaOne X1000 1.8GHz 2gM RadeonHD7970 AOS4.x

@Slayer

"I've probably spent close to $100,000.00 on the Amiga over the last 25 years LOL"

And that just about closes this topic. Let's keep it small and out of the reach of everyone except you.

Last edited by SHADES on 24-Oct-2010 at 04:44 AM.

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It's not the question that's the problem, it's the problem that's the question.

@Carl-S

I am amused by the constant reference to putting AmigaOS 4 on PC or Mac hardware. I can't see where that takes development anywhere as there is no way Amiga apps will ever approach those available for the hardware currently under Windows or MacOS. The only viable way for a niche presence is innovative hardware that attracts an active, distinctive development group. The X 1000 is an excellent start on that path and the PPC is better CPU, especially in power consumption.

The speculation on this line of argument is similar to how sports reporting has evolved. The pre and post game analysis consumes much more time and money than the actual contest. The game is nearly incidental to the constant analysis that does not add to the action at all.

Bottom line for me is that either Amiga remains distinctive or it becomes an emulation running ancient even if still relatively impressive software with no impetus for development. This distinctive development is only feasible on new hardware with continued OS development and porting of open source software, complete with Amiga interface. I look forward to more than an emulation - AmigaOS 5 running Amigatized Open Office. This is more attractive than what would basically be an emulation on hardware that can run current versions of Open Office with Windows or Mac.

@lkeller

Quote:

lkeller wrote: @Carl-S I am amused by the constant reference to putting AmigaOS 4 on PC or Mac hardware. I can't see where that takes development anywhere as there is no way Amiga apps will ever approach those available for the hardware currently under Windows or MacOS. The only viable way for a niche presence is innovative hardware that attracts an active, distinctive development group. The X 1000 is an excellent start on that path and the PPC is better CPU, especially in power consumption. The speculation on this line of argument is similar to how sports reporting has evolved. The pre and post game analysis consumes much more time and money than the actual contest. The game is nearly incidental to the constant analysis that does not add to the action at all. Bottom line for me is that either Amiga remains distinctive or it becomes an emulation running ancient even if still relatively impressive software with no impetus for development. This distinctive development is only feasible on new hardware with continued OS development and porting of open source software, complete with Amiga interface. I look forward to more than an emulation - AmigaOS 5 running Amigatized Open Office. This is more attractive than what would basically be an emulation on hardware that can run current versions of Open Office with Windows or Mac.

Better CPU?? how? sure it has a lower power envelope. Just how many $ per year is it going to save Vs another modern and highly available CPU. So what if theat PC just happens to run linux or windows or Mac OS or BeOS so what. If people want the AMIGA they will boot in to that. but go and spend over 2 grand on something that has a better power envelope than a PC 2 times the speed? c'mon

The sheer expense of having to develop on a non main stream CPU is going to take away any watts per usage for buy in anyway.

I still wonder at how these assumptions carry any merit these days. The platfomr is getting smaller and more expensive so lets keep doing that people!

Never mind, i'm out of here. This is crap to still be happening in 2010

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@T-J

I did read it.
To paraphrase, he talks about his preference for custom hardware over commodity hardware and if it were abandoned it would, for him, signal the end of 'the PLATFORM'.

So to sum up; Custom Hardware = the PLATFORM.

What is custom hardware? The X1000? Apart from the Xena and I'll even go as far as including the PPC CPU, what else is custom hardware? The board is replete with commodity components. Plus the whole system would use commodity hardware i.e. HDD, GPU, Optical drive, PSU.

The 'custom hardware' doesn't invite developers in, who are one of the key pillars of a successful PLATFORM. But rather the price tag of well over ¤1,500 signals loud and clear, 'Keep Out'.

He did after all vote 'no'. That's why I stated that a CPU and its architecture do not a PLATFORM make.

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@Carl-S

"Waiting for PPC hardware" is an appropriate statement.

Others do - we wait.

Last edited by hunk on 24-Oct-2010 at 09:47 AM.

@hunk

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Others do - we wait.

And some just consistently troll Amiga forums.