@djrikki

Quote:

OMG they are almost the same! Case closed.

Yes, I fully agree. Finally someone with a bit of common sense. It has been said over and over again and then another 379,431 times that Amiga on x86 is out of the question.
Amigans want to be different otherwise we would be having 'fun', if at all possible, with Windows now v7, or Mac or Linux or BeOs or PC-BCD or whatever. Being different means you're not mainstreamers. A very positive attitude in a world full of metoo's and copycats. But it comes at a price. Up to you to decide whether you're 'going with the flow', like dead fish and debris, or going against the flow like living fish do. Get over it, stop whining, and indeed: case closed!

OldFart

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@DAX

It's already happened. It's called AROS.

@kolla

Quote:

kolla wrote: @Samurai_Crow What software, and what CPU emulation settings?

EUAE emulating an A1200 with 68030 and 64 MiB Fast RAM.

@Hammer

PPC Amiga apps are more bloated than 68k Amiga apps.

@ara

Quote:

But how is this "historical" comparison relevant to the customer?

Performance per watt of PA6T was impressive in 2007 and is still good today.

Quote:

(The E6600 2.4 GHz scores 40 SpecInt2000 per Watt, by the way. FPU performance is worse, indeed).

Without I/O chips, as I wrote. (comparable with plain PA6T cores - 14 W: 71 SpecInt2000 per W).


Sure, you can find (much) better CPUs today (i7, Cortex-A9). However, PA6T is really nice CPU, probably the best you can use for possible computer with Amiga OS.

@ara

Quote:

ara wrote: @pavlor > Impressive for CPU from year 2007. But how is this "historical" comparison relevant to the customer? The slowest E6xxx series processor that I can find in online shops is the E6500 (2.9GHz, 65W) and even the E6800 (3.3Ghz) is specified with TDP 65W, not to mention all the mobile processors (i3?) that I don't know anything about. (The E6600 2.4 GHz scores 40 SpecInt2000 per Watt, by the way. FPU performance is worse, indeed).

Try Intel Core 2 Duo P9500 (TDP 25W) @ 2.53Ghz instead of E6600.

Last edited by Hammer on 26-Oct-2010 at 06:25 AM.

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Amiga 500 (Rev 6A, KS 3.2, PiStorm/RPi 3a/Emu68)

The OS makes the difference, not the CPU...

Going the PPC road which has *nothing* to do with the original 68k didn't make the Amiga become MacOS, or whatever OS is widespreaded on PPC...

Going x86 (or ARM, or MIPS, or Solaris, or anything) wouldn't change that either. The day people will got over with that, we may be able to evolute... And start being different and good at the same time...

Most people (and that includes most developers) don't care about the CPU being big endian, risc, cisc,...

Last edited by Leo on 26-Oct-2010 at 08:29 AM.

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@Hammer
> Try Intel Core 2 Duo P9500 (TDP 25W) @ 2.53Ghz instead of E6600

Very nice, although the price is quite impressive (probably because of the huge L2 cache). Let's take the P8700
Any idea how much the PA6T costs? I assume there are no public price lists?

@Leo
> The OS makes the difference, not the CPU...

This is going a little bit OT, but I have a question: I have read several times that some people here are using their Amiga as their main system. How do you manage? No trolling, I'm serious. Let's ignore for a moment my "special" needs. Just the daily business and private stuff: postprocessing pictures (from an ordinary camera with 8 megapixels), indexing and searching through e-mails of the last months, converting documents to pdf,...
I really loved my classic Amiga (development, gfx, gaming, office stuff,...), but just the idea to work on a CPU today that is several times slower than the (old and cheap) one I'm currently using

@ara

Quote:

ara wrote: Any idea how much the PA6T costs? I assume there are no public price lists?

IIRC Trevor said in some interview something about the price of the PA6T (or to be precise: "the mystery processor"). And it was insanley high (IIRC something like 500 $).

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@ara

Quote:

ara wrote: @Hammer > Try Intel Core 2 Duo P9500 (TDP 25W) @ 2.53Ghz instead of E6600 Very nice, although the price is quite impressive (probably because of the huge L2 cache). Let's take the P8700 Any idea how much the PA6T costs? I assume there are no public price lists?

My old Sony Vaio VGN FW-45 laptop includes Intel Core 2 Duo P8700 2.53Ghz (3MB L2 cache, 25 watts) and AMD Mobility Radeon HD 4650 (15-20 watts)

My brother's old ASUS N80VN laptop includes Intel Core 2 Duo P9500 2.53Ghz (6MB L2 cache, 25 watts).

Last edited by Hammer on 26-Oct-2010 at 11:24 AM.
Last edited by Hammer on 26-Oct-2010 at 11:17 AM.

_________________
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Amiga 1200 (Rev 1D1, KS 3.2, PiStorm32lite/RPi 4B 4GB/Emu68)
Amiga 500 (Rev 6A, KS 3.2, PiStorm/RPi 3a/Emu68)

@Zylesea

Quote:

And it was insanley high (IIRC something like 500 $).

500 USD insanely high? It is cheap compared to 68060 prices in 1995...

@Samurai_Crow

[quote]
@Hammer

PPC Amiga apps are more bloated than 68k Amiga apps.
[quote]
It's not MacOS X PPC mainline apps.

Last edited by Hammer on 26-Oct-2010 at 11:35 AM.

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Ryzen 9 7900X, DDR5-6000 64 GB RAM, GeForce RTX 4080 16 GB
Amiga 1200 (Rev 1D1, KS 3.2, PiStorm32lite/RPi 4B 4GB/Emu68)
Amiga 500 (Rev 6A, KS 3.2, PiStorm/RPi 3a/Emu68)

@ara: no problem, that's no trolling to me. Being skeptic doesn't make you a troll.

I'm not using the Amiga as my main machine anymore, but I think what I experienced a few years ago with the Pegasos 2 hasn't changed (again, no trolling: OS4 or MorphOS both share the same apps, there is very little differences in the end):

You can do almost everything (wordprocessing, web, coding, games, videos) on Amiga/MorphOS today. The difference is that you can forget about cute-edge features. So you can browse the web but you can forget about Flash or Java. You have simple image processing tools but you can forget about a true Photoshop-like tool. You can also forget about nice recent games (this doesn't change the fact there *are* nice games for these systems). You can play videos but most of the time can forget about really high-def videos (the SAM won't cope with it for example). You have no video editing tool. And so on...

Some people don't care about it. Most people do, or will have to use these technologies, videos,... and so can't use it as their main machine. I think you fall into this category. You have to forget about some uses to use an Amiga. There are some things you cannot do.

This is how I see it. There isn't a single area where the Amiga is cute-edge anymore. So no valid reason for most people to use it.

Adding to that the fact that the hardware is so expensive doesn't help.

Last edited by Leo on 26-Oct-2010 at 11:40 AM.

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@pavlor

And hence the problem, a fair number of Amiga users seem to live in 1995. In (almost) 2011 we live in a world with hundreds of inexpensive new gadgets, some of which do interesting things that no one else does. I like AmigaOS, I do, but at 1500 quid you don't just have to like AmigaOS, you have to lust AmigaOS. AmigaOS users are rare and becoming rarer, it doesn't make sense to push a fair number of them out of the market by unreasonable prices.

68060 in 1995 is a good comparison to PA6T in 2011. The last and greatest of technology that has become outdated, expensive and not really justifiable in economic terms. Apple has agreed to continue the PA6T because of the US military, a group that has paid thousands of dollars for a bolt. Not exactly the highest recommendation....

The thing is many of us who complain about the price would be the first to buy a 400 dollar AmigaOS machine or plunk down ¤150 for aOS 4.1 that ran in Virtualbox.

Quote:

500 USD insanely high? It is cheap compared to 68060 prices in 1995...

Last edited by persia on 26-Oct-2010 at 03:53 PM.

@persia

Quote:

68060 in 1995 is a good comparison to PA6T in 2011. The last and greatest of technology that has become outdated, expensive and not really justifiable in economic terms.

Sure. But there are still people that buy these outdated and overpriced products like SAM.

Quote:

The thing is many of us who complain about the price would be the first to buy a 400 dollar AmigaOS machine or plunk down ¤150 for aOS 4.1 that ran in Virtualbox.

To use it or only to try it?

Quote:

AmigaOS users are rare and becoming rarer, it doesn't make sense to push a fair number of them out of the market by unreasonable prices.

There are much more expensive hobbies... like golf, cars and womans.


If you want Amiga OS on x86, then gain some milions EUR, hire developers and contact Hyperion. I´m sure they will gladly cooperate with you.

@persia

Quote:

And hence the problem, a fair number of Amiga users seem to live in 1995.

Not me; I'm living in 1985.

Quote:

I like AmigaOS, I do, but at 1500 quid you don't just have to like AmigaOS, you have to lust AmigaOS.

I refuse to pay anything more than $1295 (without the monitor, of course).

_________________
"Unix is supposed to fix that." -- Jay Miner

Quote:

Samurai_Crow wrote: @kolla Quote: kolla wrote: @Samurai_Crow What software, and what CPU emulation settings? EUAE emulating an A1200 with 68030 and 64 MiB Fast RAM.

I meant to ask what Amiga software (sheesh).

The fastest emulation is that of the 68020+882 I think, allthough a 030 should not be much different, still worth a test though. And do not emulate MMU ofcourse (= bye bye JIT).

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@all

Option 1 = 70%

Option 2 = 17%

Option 3 = 11%

I think anyone should consider ......

@Carl-S

Quote:

The opposite. Gateway wanted leverage in how it dealt with MS. The patents were good, but a competing OS (in those days, when Win was so lame) would have been even better.

For some reason I feel compelled to clarify that one, since people will read "leverage" as too general a term.

It was all about pricing from Microsoft for their operating system for Gateway, and the same deal and restrictions were obviously inherited by Acer thereafter.

The details of what this meant for Gateway and later Amiga Inc. as a mere "licensee" have always been contingent on this.

Added direct link to Carl's post since it's SO many pages back:

direct link to Carl's post

#6

Last edited by number6 on 01-Sep-2013 at 10:53 PM.

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@number6

Geez 6 you picked a doozy to resurrect eh

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