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   /  Classic Amiga Hardware
      /  The Dragon is stirring - at last!
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PosterThread
Colin_Camper 
The Dragon is stirring - at last!
Posted on 11-Nov-2006 17:51:06
#1 ]
Super Member
Joined: 6-Jul-2003
Posts: 1188
From: Unknown


There are confirmed reports of sightings in Poland!

Well, Elbox did promise this before christmas! (They say that every year! )

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Amiboy 
Re: The Dragon is stirring - at last!
Posted on 11-Nov-2006 19:26:01
#2 ]
Super Member
Joined: 21-Dec-2003
Posts: 1046
From: At home (probably)

@Colin_Camper

Im not to suer what to make of the dragon...sure its cool for classic users (like me) as it will give us a much needed speed boost but I see it as also keeping us back and relying on this aged creeking hardware.

Im still holding out for an Samantha ort ACK PVLT but if they dont appear i may go for the dragon.

Amiboy

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A1200, Power Tower, OS3.9 BB2, HD-Floppy, Mediator PCI, Voodoo 3 3000, Soundblaster 4.1, TV Card, 100MBit Ethernet & 060 66MHz 64MB, 9.5Gig HD, 52xCDRom.

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OldFart 
Re: The Dragon is stirring - at last!
Posted on 11-Nov-2006 20:36:14
#3 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-Sep-2004
Posts: 3023
From: Stad; en d'r is moar ain stad en da's Stad. Makkelk zat!

@Amiboy

Whatever comes out, when first the Dragon was announced, I more or less vowed to get myself one. It may now become reality. Looking forward to replace my Blizzard 1240 + SCSI 1230-3, my Apollo ZIV, my CV64 3d, my FastATA ZIV, my X-Surf, my ISDN-Surfer and my 4S + 2P board for a more up to date system. Might even be tempted to sell it of as a complete system, including the Elbox tower and a Philips 17"CRT. And that before or around X-mas (depends of course when X-mas is scheduled).

Only one thing I need to be certain of: SCSI compatabillity!

OldFart

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hatschi 
Re: The Dragon is stirring - at last!
Posted on 11-Nov-2006 20:48:32
#4 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 1-Dec-2005
Posts: 2328
From: Good old Europe.

@Amiboy

Quote:
Im not to suer what to make of the dragon...sure its cool for classic users (like me) as it will give us a much needed speed boost but I see it as also keeping us back and relying on this aged creeking hardware.


But that's what a large part of the Amiga-community still wants. The number of people that isn't interested in "NG" forms of Amigaish operating systems and hardware (e.g. A1's and Pegasos) can't be neglected. Also the efforts of Jens Schoenfeld clearly target at the Amiga and C64 "retro market". Upgrading an old A1200 with a Dragon 1200 is comparable to getting a RR-Net and MMC64 for the C64. It's great that such obscure things are still being developed and produced.

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Darrin 
Re: The Dragon is stirring - at last!
Posted on 11-Nov-2006 21:45:43
#5 ]
Team Member
Joined: 14-May-2003
Posts: 1941
From: Lake Charles, USA

I've got two Amiga (Elbox/Power) A1200 Towers and I'm just waiting for either the PV or Dragon to come out. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that soemthing is available soon. Meanwhile I just purchased a new Cybervision 643D card as a treat for either my A2000 or A3000...

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tonyw 
Re: The Dragon is stirring - at last!
Posted on 11-Nov-2006 22:23:39
#6 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 3237
From: Sydney (of course)

@Darrin

But - but - what is going to run on this? Only emulated 68K programs?

There is no way that PPC programs like OS4 can ever run on it, so who is going to buy it?

The only market that I can see is 68K owners running OS3.x.

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Hyperion Support Forum: http://forum.hyperion-entertainment.biz/index.php

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Comi 
Re: The Dragon is stirring - at last!
Posted on 11-Nov-2006 22:36:37
#7 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 1-Jul-2003
Posts: 659
From: Zlatibor, Serbia

Yes at last!

For now it is for classic users but there is posibility to upgrade it with PPC card (Shark)...


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hatschi 
Re: The Dragon is stirring - at last!
Posted on 11-Nov-2006 22:42:19
#8 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 1-Dec-2005
Posts: 2328
From: Good old Europe.

@tonyw

Quote:
The only market that I can see is 68K owners running OS3.x.


Yes, and that is exactly the market that Elbox is aiming at. A small and tiny market, but maybe even bigger than the current OS4-world. Just look what individual computers is doing. They probably don't make a fortune out of it, but some companies are still alive and producing new hardware. The OS4-market still has to prove that it offers enough of a niche for small companies to exist. Even in a situation of hardware-monopoly this didn't really work out so far - and I don't think that things will improve with like 3 different companies in this tiny market and skyrocket high prices

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elwood 
Re: The Dragon is stirring - at last!
Posted on 11-Nov-2006 22:44:37
#9 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 17-Sep-2003
Posts: 3427
From: Lyon, France

@hatschi

Quote:
that's what a large part of the Amiga-community still wants. The number of people that isn't interested in "NG" forms of Amigaish operating systems and hardware


So an NG + Clone-A would be damn great. The best of both worlds.

Last edited by elwood on 11-Nov-2006 at 10:56 PM.

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Sam460 1.10 Ghz
AmigaOS 4 betatester
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AmigaHeretic 
Re: The Dragon is stirring - at last!
Posted on 11-Nov-2006 23:00:48
#10 ]
Super Member
Joined: 7-Mar-2003
Posts: 1697
From: Oregon

@Colin_Camper

Any word on how fast it runs or how it compares with say an 060?

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hatschi 
Re: The Dragon is stirring - at last!
Posted on 11-Nov-2006 23:03:50
#11 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 1-Dec-2005
Posts: 2328
From: Good old Europe.

@elwood

Quote:
So an NG + Clone-A would be damn great. The best of both worlds.


Sure, that would be neat. Some used to question the point of hardware like the Powervixxen LT. But although it doesn't look blazingly fast, it could have offered a nice link between both "worlds". I only lost interest in the PV LT when Adam said that there won't be any possibility to deactivate the Powervixxen (in order to access the 68k/OS3.x side). What's the point in such hardware then? He could have better developed it as purely stand-alone from the beginning.

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Interesting 
Re: The Dragon is stirring - at last!
Posted on 11-Nov-2006 23:45:01
#12 ]
Super Member
Joined: 29-Mar-2004
Posts: 1812
From: a place & time long long ago, when things mattered.

@AmigaHeretic

Quote:
Any word on how fast it runs or how it compares with say an 060?


It should be faster.

Anyone setup a mirror for the videos yet?

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number6 
Re: The Dragon is stirring - at last!
Posted on 11-Nov-2006 23:53:12
#13 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 11514
From: In the village

@Interesting

Quote:
Anyone setup a mirror for the videos yet?


http://ds5.agh.edu.pl/~marcik/amizaduszki/movies

Mentioned in the current Elbox thread on Amiga.org here.

#6

Last edited by number6 on 12-Nov-2006 at 12:01 AM.

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herewegoagain 
Re: The Dragon is stirring - at last!
Posted on 12-Nov-2006 1:57:13
#14 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 8-Jan-2003
Posts: 3270
From: Charlotte, NC

@number6

Just to save some bandwidth, for those who do not speak polish, you can skip the 213MB one and the 76MB one. All you get for that is a crowd gathered around the speaker as he holds the Dragon in his hand while talking about it.

Grab the other three for some video of the Dragon in use.

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ChrisH 
Re: The Dragon is stirring - at last!
Posted on 12-Nov-2006 9:07:41
#15 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Jan-2005
Posts: 6679
From: Unknown

I really don't see the point of releasing the Dragon now, even when we still lack OS4 hardware. I mean, native 68k programs - what's the point? I can run them 10 times faster than on any real Amiga (or OS4) using my single-core PC, thanks to WinUAE's JIT. If people want to continue using their old 68k Amigas - no problem. But spending actual money on a new 68k system? Seems a waste to me. Oh well, I'm obviously not in their target market!

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Comi 
Re: The Dragon is stirring - at last!
Posted on 12-Nov-2006 9:08:39
#16 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 1-Jul-2003
Posts: 659
From: Zlatibor, Serbia

Hardware (Dragon) for about a month !!! Sound impossible on Amiga scene today...

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OldFart 
Re: The Dragon is stirring - at last!
Posted on 12-Nov-2006 9:41:02
#17 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-Sep-2004
Posts: 3023
From: Stad; en d'r is moar ain stad en da's Stad. Makkelk zat!

@ChrisH

Quote:
I mean, native 68k programs - what's the point? I can run them 10 times faster than on any real Amiga (or OS4) using my single-core PC, thanks to WinUAE's JIT.


You know how to spoil the party, don't you?

OldFart

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dan.hutch 
Re: The Dragon is stirring - at last!
Posted on 12-Nov-2006 9:55:59
#18 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 30-Dec-2004
Posts: 526
From: United Kingdom

@tonyw

Quote:
But - but - what is going to run on this? Only emulated 68K programs?

There is no way that PPC programs like OS4 can ever run on it, so who is going to buy it?

The only market that I can see is 68K owners running OS3.x.


But there's not much on OS4 in the way of programs that need OS4, most Apps are running on OS4 under 68k emulation anyway at the minute, there's no significant PPC app for OS4 yet.

So a fast OS3.9 system will be fine for most - yes we would like a OS4 PPC system, but where can you buy one? And then there's the cost of the thing.

So if the Dragon is fast enough to play a DVD while still using Workbench as shown in the videos then I reckon it will have a lot of appeal until a better PPC solution exists. You can still run most of the apps you would be running on OS4 anyway under OS3.9.

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dan.hutch 
Re: The Dragon is stirring - at last!
Posted on 12-Nov-2006 9:59:00
#19 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 30-Dec-2004
Posts: 526
From: United Kingdom

@ChrisH

Quote:
I really don't see the point of releasing the Dragon now, even when we still lack OS4 hardware. I mean, native 68k programs - what's the point? I can run them 10 times faster than on any real Amiga (or OS4) using my single-core PC, thanks to WinUAE's JIT. If people want to continue using their old 68k Amigas - no problem. But spending actual money on a new 68k system? Seems a waste to me. Oh well, I'm obviously not in their target market!


No, because spending 500-600 on a dated PPC motherboard is obvisously so much more worthwhile .

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hatschi 
Re: The Dragon is stirring - at last!
Posted on 12-Nov-2006 10:00:24
#20 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 1-Dec-2005
Posts: 2328
From: Good old Europe.

@ChrisH

Quote:
I really don't see the point of releasing the Dragon now, even when we still lack OS4 hardware. I mean, native 68k programs - what's the point?


The main point for releasing it is that there are people who would be buying it - very simple. Just read my posts in this thread.

Quote:
I can run them 10 times faster than on any real Amiga (or OS4) using my single-core PC, thanks to WinUAE's JIT.


Fine - but I don't see that the Dragon is aiming at anything like that, it is not intended to be Amiga "NG" hardware. It is a clear statement for Amiga Classic as a geeky retro-platform. And the amount of people interested in that is not neglectable.

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