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/  Forum Index
   /  Amiga OS4.x \ Workbench 4.x
      /  Reality check
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Kronos 
Re: Reality check
Posted on 18-Dec-2006 4:23:29
#161 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 2303
From: Unknown

@IonMane

Sorry to ruin your pararde, but McBill made it quite clear that they would support projects which don't generate 500000$ in anual revenue. Now this sum is "peanuts" for big companies, thats for sure, but it's also for sure it's more than 10 times what any of those "companies" interested in such a licence is likely to generate.

@saimo

Just because someone is (constantly) disagreeing with you and yes a very different point of view (which you might not understand) doesn't mean he's insulting you.

Otherwise I would have to feel insulted by you, IonMane and a bunch of others

Sometimes I really wonder do you (and some others blowing into that same horn) really have such thin skin, or is it that you just want to feel insulted so you can easily dismiss oppsoing viewpoints.....

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Kronos 
Re: Reality check
Posted on 18-Dec-2006 4:31:44
#162 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 2303
From: Unknown

@Samwel

The problem is Ainc promised something they couldn't provide (they don't have the means to port intent to another HW), nor do the have the resources to do such a port (and probraly more to fullfill the contract) if they had the means.....

So it isn't that unfair by Genesi to be compensated by another product, similar to what was promised by the DE back than, and to which AInc has the means to make a port possible.

Sure it may not be "nice" by Genesi to demand OS4 in court, but it surely wasn't "nice" either to promise a product without being able to provide. And if the end result is OS4 running on actually available HW, who is really loosing something, and why should we feel sorry for them ??

Last edited by Kronos on 18-Dec-2006 at 04:32 AM.

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Samwel 
Re: Reality check
Posted on 18-Dec-2006 4:39:33
#163 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 7-Apr-2004
Posts: 3404
From: Sweden

@Kronos

Just a point. You can disagree and at the same time belittle someone.
Sometimes you can easily notice this happen on these forums but the ones doing it of course says they don't meant it that way.
It's just how some treat other people when he/she writes to them that is the wrong, not the POV.

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Samwel 
Re: Reality check
Posted on 18-Dec-2006 4:54:10
#164 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 7-Apr-2004
Posts: 3404
From: Sweden

@Kronos

Quote:

The problem is Ainc promised something they couldn't provide (they don't have the means to port intent to another HW), nor do the have the resources to do such a port (and probraly more to fullfill the contract) if they had the means.....


Yes, that's a reason to sue. For economic compensation!!!
I have no problems at all why they sued, or that they did. I would myself if I had been in Genesis shoes if things happened the way you say it did.

Quote:

So it isn't that unfair by Genesi to be compensated by another product, similar to what was promised by the DE back than, and to which AInc has the means to make a port possible.


As I said, and the court felt the same it seems, get economic compensation for loss or actually getting the product in the contract yes, but demanding another product instead than the original contract was for?!? No court will allow that.
This has nothing to do with "which side" you are on. Simply a stupid thing that BBRV should have known the court wouldn't give them.

Quote:

Sure it may not be "nice" by Genesi to demand OS4 in court, but it surely wasn't "nice" either to promise a product without being able to provide. And if the end result is OS4 running on actually available HW, who is really loosing something, and why should we feel sorry for them ??


You seem to write to me like I take Amiga Incs side or something?!
I simply don't care for any of them. I want OS4, who the owner of the trademark is I could care less for. But I still think that this trademark is important.

And no, Amiga Inc. hasn't done anything, IMO, to deserve the ownership. Other than starting the OS4 project.

Yes I would like OS4 to run on any hardware, Genesi why not. But I'm not that happy with either Pegasos2 or Efika. But the future 8641D motherboard.

Last edited by Samwel on 18-Dec-2006 at 08:33 AM.
Last edited by Samwel on 18-Dec-2006 at 04:56 AM.

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falemagn 
Re: Reality check
Posted on 18-Dec-2006 7:10:48
#165 ]
Super Member
Joined: 24-Nov-2003
Posts: 1126
From: Italy

@Richi

Quote:

Honestly I'm only curious, if everything is so dark and lost: why are you still here?


Curiosity, mostly. What do you do when you're at a movie teatre, walk out of the room before the movie ends?

Quote:

There are so many forums around the world with many users really happy with their Windows and X86 systems, you would feel at home very quickly.


I don't feel homeless, if that's your concern.

I believe, though, that questioning my reasons to be here is a bit besides the point, isn't it? This is a reality check thread, after all: is there anything you disagree with, about what I've written? If so, please do point out the flaws in my reasoning, if not: why are you still here?

Last edited by falemagn on 18-Dec-2006 at 11:11 AM.
Last edited by falemagn on 18-Dec-2006 at 07:19 AM.

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falemagn 
Re: Reality check
Posted on 18-Dec-2006 7:13:21
#166 ]
Super Member
Joined: 24-Nov-2003
Posts: 1126
From: Italy

@IonMane

Quote:

The Amiga name still has a pretty wide brand recognition, despite what you may think.


Sorry if I sound bitter, but... I don't know, got any numbers to back that up? Like, market surveys or somesuch? If not, I'd say that "despite what you may think" is a pretty bold statement, don't you agree?

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corwin 
Re: Reality check
Posted on 18-Dec-2006 7:54:48
#167 ]
Member
Joined: 19-May-2003
Posts: 96
From: Unknown

@IonMane

Quote:

Yes, Amiga Inc. wants money for the hardware, and the OS. That is thier right. They are charging for use of the "name" on the end product. That is fair enough. The Amiga name still has a pretty wide brand recognition, despite what you may think.


Last time I checked, 95% of computer users never heard about Amiga since most of the people using a computer today started using computers when the Amiga was already past history.

The amiga was sold a few millions, people using computers are now in the billions numbers.
Geeks in their 30s/40s using alternative OSes aside, the Amiga brand means nothing to the general public.

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Gleng 
Re: Reality check
Posted on 18-Dec-2006 10:42:27
#168 ]
Super Member
Joined: 12-Dec-2004
Posts: 1071
From: Blighty

@corwin

Quote:
Last time I checked, 95% of computer users never heard about Amiga since most of the people using a computer today started using computers when the Amiga was already past history.

The amiga was sold a few millions, people using computers are now in the billions numbers. Geeks in their 30s/40s using alternative OSes aside, the Amiga brand means nothing to the general public.

Bingo!

There's an ever decreasing number of people who associate the name "Amiga" with "the best multimedia desktop computer", and an increasing number of people who associate the name "Amiga" with "crappy mobile phone game virtual machine technology that nobody wants or uses because Java is more widespread".

This needs to be stopped before there's nothing left.

Last edited by Gleng on 18-Dec-2006 at 10:43 AM.

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Darrin 
Re: Reality check
Posted on 18-Dec-2006 10:51:19
#169 ]
Team Member
Joined: 14-May-2003
Posts: 1941
From: Lake Charles, USA

@Gleng

Quote:
There's an ever decreasing number of people who associate the name "Amiga" with "the best multimedia desktop computer", and an increasing number of people who associate the name "Amiga" with "crappy mobile phone game virtual machine technology that nobody wants or uses because Java is more widespread".

This needs to be stopped before there's nothing left.


I agree. This is one of the reasons why I don't wear my "Amiga" T-shirt out in public. 10 years ago people would notice it and think "Boy, I bet that guy plays a mean game of Speedball!" whereas now they would think "He's an Amiga? He's either gay or the ugliest woman I've ever seen!"

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IonMane 
Re: Reality check
Posted on 18-Dec-2006 12:14:07
#170 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 18-Apr-2003
Posts: 550
From: Adelaide Australia.

@pixie

Quote:
Amiga treats one of his costumers [Genesi] by continuously diverging from what they had signed, do all the cheap shots possible, still Genesi are the ones blaming? It seems they have interest and already had paid for it, for the right of selling it with their hardware. Are they to blame that Amiga wasn't able to deliver? If they have nothing valuable at least they present something that is...


LOL
Amiga never diverged from providing ADE
Genesi never supplies documents hardware, and was well informed about AOS4 as they were well involved in the process which eventuated in Hyperion becoming the eventual producers of it. What cheap shots? What divergence?

@Kronos
Sorry, do not know who "McBill" is....
As for the rest, if you are referring to AMiga Inc. then how exactly does that rain on my parade? If they will accept companies with lower revenues then great. I dont see your point.

@corwin
your opinon I suppose, with which I will disagree.

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itix 
Re: Reality check
Posted on 18-Dec-2006 12:38:17
#171 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 22-Dec-2004
Posts: 3398
From: Freedom world

@corwin

Quote:

Last time I checked, 95% of computer users never heard about Amiga since most of the people using a computer today started using computers when the Amiga was already past history.


It is so true. In the place I'm studying we have a computer museum but students do not recognize Amiga better than C64. Their life started with 486 and not so surprisingly when students were sharing their gaming memories from a childhood it was all about games on 486.

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jkirk 
Re: Reality check
Posted on 18-Dec-2006 13:26:56
#172 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 28-Jan-2005
Posts: 3349
From: Georgia (usa)

@pixie

i have to agree with saimo on this.

1 genesi in any form cannot help os4(as far as i know ) without a license.

1A they won't be able to sell hardware for os4
1B if they can't supply hardware it is unlikely they would "help" in other fashions

2 genesi won't get a license as long as they rely on their current method of geting a license.
Ex: lawsuits,putting community pressure on ainc&hyperion, not paying for the license to get os4, etc.

now if the two were to get together and genesi was able to get a licence the hardware would be great for the community. i just don't see that happening.

no amount of twisting what saimo says will change that.

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saimo 
Re: Reality check
Posted on 18-Dec-2006 13:41:08
#173 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Mar-2003
Posts: 2408
From: Unknown

@stew

Quote:
stew wrote:

My only point was that Genesi does have something to offer (as much as Trokia ect..).

And my point was that that hardware is not significant to AOS4 as long as the license issue is not sorted out

Quote:
Now as to if the cost of dealing with them would be worth it, or if they could be trusted, is another matter entirely.

Yes, it's another aspect of the game.

Quote:
I am sorry for reading things into what you posted.

I'm most happy to have had a civilized conversation with you

saimo

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saimo 
Re: Reality check
Posted on 18-Dec-2006 13:43:58
#174 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Mar-2003
Posts: 2408
From: Unknown

@pixie

Quote:

pixie wrote:
@saimo

Quote:
Do you think I'm a blind idiot?

I think this speaks for itself.

saimo

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itix 
Re: Reality check
Posted on 18-Dec-2006 13:48:54
#175 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 22-Dec-2004
Posts: 3398
From: Freedom world

@jkirk

Quote:

2 genesi won't get a license as long as they rely on their current method of geting a license.
Ex: lawsuits,putting community pressure on ainc&hyperion, not paying for the license to get os4, etc.


If I was Genesi I would demand them (OS4 partners) to pay to me. Why? Well, why not. If they are in need of HW I should take an advantage of my position. If they don't need new HW this debate matter anyway. OS4 as such is not financially proper market.

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Amiga 500, Efika, Mac Mini and PowerBook

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jkirk 
Re: Reality check
Posted on 18-Dec-2006 14:07:26
#176 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 28-Jan-2005
Posts: 3349
From: Georgia (usa)

@itix

Quote:

itix wrote:
@jkirk

Quote:

2 genesi won't get a license as long as they rely on their current method of geting a license.
Ex: lawsuits,putting community pressure on ainc&hyperion, not paying for the license to get os4, etc.


If I was Genesi I would demand them (OS4 partners) to pay to me. Why? Well, why not. If they are in need of HW I should take an advantage of my position. If they don't need new HW this debate matter anyway. OS4 as such is not financially proper market.



i don't think genesi would do that since they want as many os as possible on their hardware. but if they didn't want the os then yes i agree wholehartedly. i guess it boils down to who wants it more. is ainc willing to pay to get the os on efika or is genesi willing to pay to get os4 on their hardware. as it stands neither are willing to budge so we have an impasse.

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BobW 
Re: Reality check
Posted on 18-Dec-2006 14:18:24
#177 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 9-Apr-2004
Posts: 275
From: Central, NY USA

@IonMane

Quote:
Yes, Amiga Inc. wants money for the hardware, and the OS. That is thier right. They are charging for use of the "name" on the end product. That is fair enough. The Amiga name still has a pretty wide brand recognition, despite what you may think.


In 1992/1993 I was going to college in the US for computer science. There was 1 Amiga 2000 rotting away up in the computer lab. I know of only 10 people or less at the time that were even familiar with the Amiga that went to my school. There were numerous people who would literally point and laugh when you talked about the Amiga. Everyone else had already drifted toward PC or Mac and this was when Commodore was still in business! By the time the Commodore 1200 was released I only had 1 dealer within a 3 hour drive while 6 years earlier there were several.

The Amiga name isn't worth jack except for the few of us to whom it is a hobby. For a large part is was a dead computer in the States 14 years ago.

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pixie 
Re: Reality check
Posted on 18-Dec-2006 14:24:49
#178 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Mar-2003
Posts: 2821
From: Figueira da Foz - Portugal

@jkirk

Quote:
2 genesi won't get a license as long as they rely on their current method of geting a license.

Had anyone besides Eyetech got one? It isn't like it wasn't already tried before

Quote:
no amount of twisting what saimo says will change that.

Your'e reading too much into my words... I state what you stated, the obvious... the precise way Genesi could help AOS4Team, nothing more nothing less... but, might I ask you since you referred it, what twists exactly I made?

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pixie 
Re: Reality check
Posted on 18-Dec-2006 14:30:53
#179 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Mar-2003
Posts: 2821
From: Figueira da Foz - Portugal

@IonMane

Quote:
Genesi never supplies documents hardware, and was well informed about AOS4 as they were well involved in the process which eventuated in Hyperion becoming the eventual producers of it.

We'll we have to assume then by your own words that Genesi was well informed on AOS4 was then...

Quote:
What cheap shots? What divergence


Quote:
Quote:
The Amiga OS is capable of being self-hosted, and sitting on top of other operating systems. A single application is capable of running on X86, Power PC, M.core, ARM, StrongArm, MIPs, SH3/4, and others. In a hosted environment the new Amiga runs on versions of Linux, Windows 95,98/NT, Windows CE, OS/9, QNX4, and others to be announced.


Quote:
Since we already have the AmigaOS, are moving forwards with AmigaOS compatible new hardware, and have a vast legion of people who still want to use, develop for and purchase, the AmigaOS, we have decided that instead of bringing out a standalone AmigaDE for this market, we will take the best of the new and integrate it with the best of the old.


You should also know that AmigaOS4 is today wasn't in the past, during its past it was even to be at some point and time MorphOS, so you say Amiga Inc plans hadn't diverged...

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pixie 
Re: Reality check
Posted on 18-Dec-2006 14:35:12
#180 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Mar-2003
Posts: 2821
From: Figueira da Foz - Portugal

@saimo

Sorry can't help it...Quote:
The problem is that focus on the name ("OS") and not on the meaning of the description given. That "Amiga OS" is said to be self-hosted or hosted on a number of platforms and able to run the same application on a number of different CPUs... is that what AOS4 does? What it was planned to do? No. The product described there is something else. Despite the (mis)use of the (many) names, AmigaOS 4 and AmigaDE have a radically different nature.


You know that at some point and stage even AOS4 which we talk about was to be running on WarpOS, in which way does it relay to its present form?

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