@CodeSmith

Quote:

I'm not surprised - "bounty" is just another way of saying "pre-pay", and we all know how well that usually turns out. I think Marcik's terms are fair, but I'd be a lot more inclined to donate after seeing either a development screenshot or a statement by a trustworthy 3rd party saying that the project is really in progress. I'm just a *little* bit tired of people promising stuff and not delivering.

Bounty does not mean pre-pay, he's not getting a penny unless if he delivers. Moreover, the project is in progress as there already is a public version for MorphOS, even if it's a basic one.

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@Framiga

Quote:

Sputnik is the name of the MOS port of the KHTML Nokia WebCore engine. Theres no other versions around.

Ah. OK. I didn't realize it was a new name, I thought it was a port of "Linux Sputnik" or whatever. Thanks.

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@AMiGR

From my point of view it is - I'll be giving money and expecting a certain thing in return. What happens to the money after it leaves my hands is immaterial; if I go to amazon.com and pay for a DVD player, I don't want to receive a pair of shoes and a note saying that the guy selling the player didn't get my money.

As for "the project is in progress as there's a public version for MorphOS", that's as relevant as saying "the OS4 port to the Efika is in progress because there's a public version for AmigaOnes".

@marcik

Quote:

To put it fair - i don't care much about OS4, i'm not it's fan or user. But some of you want me to support OS4 and it's my offer.

Yeah, that much is obvious ;) Don't get me wrong please - I'm not saying you're trying to rip off somebody, or that you're greedy or whatever. I'd just prefer to have this done right.

Tbh, my preferred option would be if you could come up with a sum for which you would open the sources of your KHTML->MUI wrapper. The whole community (OS4, MOS, AROS) could then donate towards such a bounty, and third party developers could start porting it and integrating it with 3rd party browsers, e.g. turn it into an IB plugin or something like that. You could still develop (and sell) your own browser based on this wrapper if you think you can do better/faster than the IB team, but nobody would depend on your motivation, your amount of spare time, your feelings towards OS4, or the condition of your A1.

If you don't want to consider that, the following questions need to be answered as precisely as possible, imho - and the answers need to be part of the bounty description:

Are you planning commercial distribution of Sputnik at some point in time? If the answer to that one is "yes", the exact feature set of the free bounty release should be described as detailed as possible. Ending up with a situation where the bounty release is a rather basic browser, and the first commercial release has all the nice goodies wouldn't be all that nice.

What happens if you don't want to or can't continue development? Handing over the sources to the morphzone.org management is no longer an option imho, partly because Targhan seems to really suffer from real life issues and partly because the (way) bigger amount of money will have been donated by people unrelated to MorphOS or morphzone.org if the current bounty works out.

How do you define "stalled development", i.e. when will the condition that you give up control of the sources be triggered?

What features of Sputnik depend on TTE2 and MUI4, i.e. what would we miss if these are not available in time?

@cgutjahr

I like that idea, that's much more likely to have a positive result IMHO.

@billt

Quote:

Ah. OK. I didn't realize it was a new name, I thought it was a port of "Linux Sputnik" or whatever. Thanks.

Actually, Marcik's project consists of three parts:

1. A port of the KHTML engine. This is the only part that will be open source (KHTML is LGPL IIRC), according to Marcik only "very few changes" were neccessary for the port.

2. A KHTML-MUI wrapper that makes the KHTML engine available for MUI developers. Judging by the screenshots available on Marcik's page, this wrapper has advanced pretty far.

3. A MUI based browser using said wrapper for rendering pages. It's completely new (i.e. written by Marcik from scratch) and, according to reports from MOS users, only offers extremely basic functionality at the moment.

That's an interesting question:

Considering the community will pay for your work, which license will this port be distributed under?

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@GuruMeditation

It's all written on bounty page:

Quote:

Licensing: - WebCore parts and all changes made to it will be released, as license says, as a LGPL - WebKit and Sputnik part is closed source.

@thread

well, I dont think its fair for us to pay double, but I'll pay anyway. I wasnt sure if Marcik was genuine about wanting to do the port. I thought he might have been setting the bar high so that it would never be reached. But I'm starting to believe hes genuine now. (Sorry, I'm getting cynical in my old age).

If I have no bills this pay day I'll shove a payment in. I'm starting to think this could be the start of something good. As long as Marcik can get SSL and cookies done. :)

@Samwel

So I guess all 500 MOS users payed 3¤ aswell..?

I supported Sputnik at the Morphzone. I don't even have
a Pegasos. So what's the point -- good software -- I hope!

@ jhc

1500¤ is about the price of an my Amigone. So, yes it's
fair.

Last edited by Snuffy on 15-Feb-2007 at 11:18 PM.

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@jahc

Morphzone Bounty page (and amount of money) haven't been updated since long time.

AFAIK Cookies part is done.

Quote:

That's an interesting question: Considering the community will pay for your work, which license will this port be distributed under?

Here's another interesting question - why is this guy keeping parts of the source code closed when he is charging the AmigaOS community money for it? Practically holding the code hostage, how will any donor know that he won't ask for even more money just to keep the AmigaOS binaries up to date?

Personally, I think that this so called offer is on the verge of being totally outrageous.

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Quote:

Petah wrote: Quote: That's an interesting question: Considering the community will pay for your work, which license will this port be distributed under? Here's another interesting question - why is this guy keeping parts of the source code closed when he is charging the AmigaOS community money for it? Practically holding the code hostage, how will any donor know that he won't ask for even more money just to keep the AmigaOS binaries up to date? Personally, I think that this so called offer is on the verge of being totally outrageous.

When Hyperion was selling ports of PC games (that I could buy for $10 in the discount bins) for 50 euros, I thought that was outrageous.. yet people bought the games.

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Quote:

Tbh, my preferred option would be if you could come up with a sum for which you would open the sources of your KHTML->MUI wrapper. The whole community (OS4, MOS, AROS) could then donate towards such a bounty, and third party developers could start porting it and integrating it with 3rd party browsers, e.g. turn it into an IB plugin or something like that. You could still develop (and sell) your own browser based on this wrapper if you think you can do better/faster than the IB team, but nobody would depend on your motivation, your amount of spare time, your feelings towards OS4, or the condition of your A1.

Opensource isn't an option. But as soon as usable Sputnik is out there'll be also webcore.mcc which will allow anyone to build browser on top of it.

Quote:

Are you planning commercial distribution of Sputnik at some point in time?

No. Sputnik will stay freeware.

Quote:

What happens if you don't want to or can't continue development? Handing over the sources to the morphzone.org management is no longer an option imho, partly because Targhan seems to really suffer from real life issues

Targhan seems to be back on track lately :)

Quote:

How do you define "stalled development", i.e. when will the condition that you give up control of the sources be triggered?

That still needs to be defined.

Quote:

What features of Sputnik depend on TTE2 and MUI4, i.e. what would we miss if these are not available in time?

Lack of TTE2 will probably result in some problems with font rendering (like user being forced to manualy define some fonts, maybe broken kerning in some places, etc). MUI4 - some issues with rendering/frames/text fields.

Quote:

Considering the community will pay for your work, which license will this port be distributed under?

Freeware.

Quote:

As long as Marcik can get SSL and cookies done. :)

Done already (with some slight issues left thought) .

Quote:

why is this guy keeping parts of the source code closed when he is charging the AmigaOS community money for it?

Why are commercial developers selling their programs without source code ? I went to the bounty scheme to avoid problems with piracy/keys/etc.

@Petah

Quote:

Petah wrote: Quote: That's an interesting question: Considering the community will pay for your work, which license will this port be distributed under? Here's another interesting question - why is this guy keeping parts of the source code closed when he is charging the AmigaOS community money for it? Practically holding the code hostage, how will any donor know that he won't ask for even more money just to keep the AmigaOS binaries up to date? Personally, I think that this so called offer is on the verge of being totally outrageous.

Wow, that comment really made my day, thank you!

(Now ask the Ibrowse guys the same question so I can laugh some more! )

@takemehomegrandma

You can't compare with IBrowse, because IBrowse isn't a port of a opensource program.

@marcik

Quote:

Lack of TTE2 will probably result in some problems with font rendering (like user being forced to manualy define some fonts, maybe broken kerning in some places, etc). MUI4 - some issues with rendering/frames/text fields.

As I understand it this is Freetype 2 (if so there is a version of this on os4depot.)

MUI4 is also under-development as I understand it.

Anyway, I would like a copy of this for OS4, hence my donation, the more developers available for any platform the better.

Mark

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IceStar Media Ltd.

@fryguy

Quote:

You can't compare with IBrowse, because IBrowse isn't a port of a opensource program.

But you can compare Sputnik with DvPlayer or Frogger - both of the are based on lgpl library that does most of the job (just like webcore is doing).

@Snuffy

Quote:

I supported Sputnik at the Morphzone. I don't even have a Pegasos. So what's the point -- good software -- I hope! "So I guess all 500 MOS users payed 3¤ aswell..? "

That comment was a joke for Ironfist because of his comment before mine.

There's of course nothing wrong with supporting coders. It's upto each person
to decide for themselves. If both platforms get a good browser then it has all
been for the best.

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@marcik

You don't have to defend yourself Marcik. It's upto each coder to ask for what he/she
want as payment for a job. If we don't want to pay that sum then we'll not get Sputnik
for OS4. Simple as that.

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