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/  Forum Index
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      /  Amithlon - a late convert
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TrevorDick 
Re: Amithlon - a late convert
Posted on 6-Mar-2007 15:13:34
#41 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Dec-2004
Posts: 2675
From: Wellington

@umisef

Thanks for the info.

@plaz

Good luck. Post back if Amithlon is still available from Software Hut.

TrevorDick

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Syperhawk 
Re: Amithlon - a late convert
Posted on 7-Mar-2007 1:41:41
#42 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 22-Feb-2005
Posts: 270
From: Cape Breton,Nova Scotia CANADA

@Plaz

Quote:

Plaz wrote:
@TrevorDick

Quote:
You could also legally obtain the ROM images by purchasing a copy of Cloantho's Amiga Forever package.


Ah, of course. That would be easier. But are we still able to buy Amithlon? I'm off to have a look at that SoftHut link you mentioned.

Plaz

Yes Softhut still has it $89.00 US last i heard

SyperHawk

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TheDungeonDelver 
Re: Amithlon - a late convert
Posted on 7-Mar-2007 2:31:37
#43 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 17-Apr-2004
Posts: 815
From: Unknown

@umisef

Hey guy,

Did you have plans to allow x86 specific apps to be run in Amithlon?

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T_Bone 
Re: Amithlon - a late convert
Posted on 7-Mar-2007 7:05:24
#44 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Sep-2003
Posts: 3043
From: here To: there

@Plaz

Quote:

Plaz wrote:
@TrevorDick

I don't recall ever reading this post before...

http://www.amigahistory.co.uk/emulators/hyperionblast.html



Spawned this thread on Ann.lu

http://www.ann.lu/comments2.cgi?view=0996487745&category=forum&start=1&322

Wow, 2001. Has it been that long?

I wonder where we'd be now if Umilator (Amithlon 2) had been released and development had been happening on this platform the past 6 years?

Last edited by T_Bone on 07-Mar-2007 at 07:08 AM.

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TrevorDick 
Re: Amithlon - a late convert
Posted on 7-Mar-2007 9:07:55
#45 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Dec-2004
Posts: 2675
From: Wellington

@T_Bone

Quote:
I wonder where we'd be now if Umilator (Amithlon 2) had been released and development had been happening on this platform the past 6 years?

Now there's a thought! Imagine if the Amithlon development had kept apace with that of WinUAE?

However, even in it current form my 1.2GHz "Tiny branded" Amithlon installed PC feels like a real Classic Amiga.

TrevorDick

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umisef 
Re: Amithlon - a late convert
Posted on 7-Mar-2007 11:07:41
#46 ]
Super Member
Joined: 19-Jun-2005
Posts: 1676
From: Melbourne, Australia

@TheDungeonDelver

Quote:
Did you have plans to allow x86 specific apps to be run in Amithlon?


Nope. "Plans" implies something not done yet :)

Amithlon can run x86 code alongside 68k code, under the full control of the AmigaOS scheduler, fully preemptively, with arbitrary jumps to and from 68k code (i.e. x86 code calls 68k library, which calls x86 code, which calls 68k resource --- no problem), and lightning-fast switches between the two. And for the 68k->x86 jump, you didn't need anything fancy; Simply jumpinmg to an odd address would do the trick (which means you can have 68k function pointers pointing at x86 functions --- yes, SetFunction could patch in x86 code).


Alas, what could have been....

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Fransexy 
Re: Amithlon - a late convert
Posted on 7-Mar-2007 11:33:27
#47 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 8-Jun-2004
Posts: 2334
From: Elche (Alicante), spain

@umisef

Why not you release Amithlon 2? i mean, you can not release the complete package because licence and legal problems but you can release as upgrade for existing amithlon, like many individuals are releasing new kernels and driver updates.
Maybe Amithlon 2 is outdated, but if people are happy with Amithlon imagine if you release the upgrade.Why waste and let lose your work? people even can donate money to you and you would even get money for your work

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umisef 
Re: Amithlon - a late convert
Posted on 7-Mar-2007 13:42:45
#48 ]
Super Member
Joined: 19-Jun-2005
Posts: 1676
From: Melbourne, Australia

@Fransexy

Quote:
but you can release as upgrade for existing amithlon, like many individuals are releasing new kernels and driver updates.


Well, no, I can't. Anything that *can* be released that way has already been released, in the various contrib packs. What remains would be the main executable, and a bunch of licensed stuff. Well, the licensed stuff is obviously out --- and replacing the main executable (plus various support files) in the "archive" (actually compressded disk image) while not touching or supplying the other, licensed parts which were part of the same archive is not something for the faint of heart.

Given that the new executable would not actually provide a whole lot of benefit, what would be the point? A lot of work for that executable went into protecting the IP licensed from Amiga Inc --- because what really would have made Umilator different from Amithlon (well, in addition to being fully licensed :) was the try-before-you-buy aspect, the online distribution of a fully functional but time-limited version, which could have been unlocked with a small (individualised, tracable, and so on) keyfile.

Yes, there were more drivers, yes, there was more gfx support in the kernel. But those drivers have already been backported and released; The kernel has been released, and others have picked up the source and taken it further. There is very little user functionality that was to be in Umilator, and that has not been made available for Amithlon.


And let's face it --- Amithlon was released in October 2001; Umilator was ready to go on July 1st, 2002. Both are equally outdated today, and would require serious amounts of work before they could be released in any form.

Quote:
Why waste and let lose your work? people even can donate money to you and you would even get money for your work


Because I banged my head against the wall for the better part of a year, and at some point, simply needed to stop. I don't want to go back there, sorry. If I felt an urge to get that feeling back, I would just let myself care about my current employer (a small R&D startup about to run out of cash --- which is why they got in an expensive consultant to tell them what to do; The consultant's idea was to stretch the money a bit longer and thus increase the chances for finding customers and investors --- by getting rid of the money drain that is the developers. So we paid someone good money to be told the way to make our R&D company survive is to get rid of the people who do the R&D. Yeah, right. Great...). But as you can tell, I don't care one bit even about that. Can't you tell? Isn't it clear from my writings? :-/

As I said --- I need Amithlon back in my life the same way my car needs radiator fluid(1).


(1) Bit of an in-joke --- you gotta know what kind of car I drive :)

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osco 
Re: Amithlon - a late convert
Posted on 7-Mar-2007 14:17:39
#49 ]
Member
Joined: 14-Apr-2004
Posts: 45
From: Unknown

@Syperhawk

Yes Softhut still has it $89.00 US last i heard????????????

Went to the site and found it at $144---- ish

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TrevorDick 
Re: Amithlon - a late convert
Posted on 7-Mar-2007 16:00:03
#50 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Dec-2004
Posts: 2675
From: Wellington

@umisef

Thanks for all the hard work in the past. Who knows what the future might hold?

Anyway good luck with the job!

TrevorDick

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BrianK 
Re: Amithlon - a late convert
Posted on 7-Mar-2007 17:24:21
#51 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Sep-2003
Posts: 8111
From: Minneapolis, MN, USA

@osco

Quote:
Yes Softhut still has it $89.00 US last i heard????????????

Went to the site and found it at $144---- ish


Amithlon is a good product. But, as an Amiga user I question spending my hard earned cash on an Amiga product that basically has less future then the Amiga itself. Especially when we have a prefectly good product - Amiga Forever, which includes ROMS, is updated, and pays a licensing fee for the IP to Amiga.

Now I wouldn't stop anyone from buying Amithlon it's just as an active Amiga user I like my cash to go to those that continue to update and support the platform along with ensuring the money goes to Amiga. Their 2nd to last update included the nice KXLight so one doesn't really need any other OS now and it's mostly seemless and works very similar to Amithlon from that respect.

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dolen 
Re: Amithlon - a late convert
Posted on 7-Mar-2007 17:38:29
#52 ]
Member
Joined: 14-Jun-2005
Posts: 90
From: Sweden

@umisef

You could just drop the source of the 68k JIT emulation part at aros archives
That would rock the amigaworld

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TrevorDick 
Re: Amithlon - a late convert
Posted on 7-Mar-2007 19:03:55
#53 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Dec-2004
Posts: 2675
From: Wellington

@BrianK

Quote:
Their 2nd to last update included the nice KXLight so one doesn't really need any other OS now and it's mostly seemless and works very similar to Amithlon from that respect.

I think the Amiga Forever KXlight work has stopped for the moment and because of this it also has compatibility issues with modern hardware.

However I agree with you, Amiga Forever is an excellent package and has the added benefit of supplying legal Amiga Rom's. The availability of the ROM's has also allowed other emulation packages to be developed:- AmiKit (my personal favourite), AmiSYS and AIAB. I would urge all Amigan's, if you have the spare cash, to purchase Cloanto's Amiga Forever if you have not already done so.

TrevorDick

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sicky 
Re: Amithlon - a late convert
Posted on 7-Mar-2007 23:25:54
#54 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Mar-2003
Posts: 2843
From: Essex, UK

@TJH132

Quote:

About the CD audio problem, try getting a program called AC97 Mixer from Aminet. http://aminet.net/package/mus/misc/AC97mixer21

That didn't work for me, it states that my audio chipset isn't supported

Last edited by sicky on 07-Mar-2007 at 11:49 PM.

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umisef 
Re: Amithlon - a late convert
Posted on 7-Mar-2007 23:35:44
#55 ]
Super Member
Joined: 19-Jun-2005
Posts: 1676
From: Melbourne, Australia

@dolen

Quote:
You could just drop the source of the 68k JIT emulation part at aros archives
That would rock the amigaworld


No, it wouldn't.

While the Amithlon JIT has some optimisations the UAE JIT doesn't, the differences are not all *that* great; Except in extreme benchmark situations, UAE's JIT should deliver no less than 70% of the raw CPU speed of Amithlon; Most of that difference cannot be backported to UAE, because UAE has certain needs of its CPU emulation which the Amithlon one does not fulfill.

UAE's JIT has been available, with full sources, since August 15th, 2000. IIRC, UAE's non-JIT 68k emulation predates Commodore's demise. And yet, AROS does not have integrated 68k emulation. The reason for that is most decidedly NOT a lack of emulation sources.

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d0c 
Re: Amithlon - a late convert
Posted on 7-Mar-2007 23:37:33
#56 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 8-Sep-2004
Posts: 896
From: UK

Quote:
by dolen on 7-Mar-2007 18:38:29

@umisef

You could just drop the source of the 68k JIT emulation part at aros archives
That would rock the amigaworld


yeah that would have been something, it would have seriouse got the aros kicking and screaming of the ground

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sicky 
Re: Amithlon - a late convert
Posted on 7-Mar-2007 23:48:14
#57 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Mar-2003
Posts: 2843
From: Essex, UK

@umisef

Quote:

As I said --- I need Amithlon back in my life the same way my car needs radiator fluid(1).

(1) Bit of an in-joke --- you gotta know what kind of car I drive :)

A VW Beetle maybe?

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umisef 
Re: Amithlon - a late convert
Posted on 8-Mar-2007 0:07:38
#58 ]
Super Member
Joined: 19-Jun-2005
Posts: 1676
From: Melbourne, Australia

@sicky

Quote:
A VW Beetle maybe?


Indeed :)

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dolen 
Re: Amithlon - a late convert
Posted on 8-Mar-2007 7:18:34
#59 ]
Member
Joined: 14-Jun-2005
Posts: 90
From: Sweden

@umisef

That was a surprise for me! I thought Amithlon was much faster than UAE.
I run UAE on my Athlon system and it does not feel fast. Maybe thats just a config thing.

There has been talk about "integrating" UAE into Aros for old amiga hardware. You´d just doubleclick the game/app and UAE would take care of it automaticly. Maybe it could use the native library functions also but Im not sure that would be possible.

The mission has not been assigned though. Developers???

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umisef 
Re: Amithlon - a late convert
Posted on 8-Mar-2007 8:29:11
#60 ]
Super Member
Joined: 19-Jun-2005
Posts: 1676
From: Melbourne, Australia

@dolen

Quote:
That was a surprise for me! I thought Amithlon was much faster than UAE.
I run UAE on my Athlon system and it does not feel fast.


The *feel* is largely about latency --- which Amithlon is indeed much better at.
For raw CPU power, however, the difference, while certainly there, is not mindboggling.

Latency depends on the overall architecture, so if things were integrated into AROS in a low-latency manner, it would not matter for the feel which emulation is used, it would feel fast.

Similarly, if they are integrated creating high latencies, it will feel slow no matter the emulation.

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