@AmigaPhil

I also miss the letter sent by Ben Hermans.
We only see the response of the AInc lawyers.

Just to make sure the document is easy to find by repeating the link for others:

http://www.merlancia.us/amiga-hyperion/decmcewenshow_case_doc.pdf

But I have to admit it doesn't look good for Hyperion.

@takemehomegrandma

There is quite a bit of context that may be missing here though.

It's hard to imagine that Hyperion would be late on a contract and then continue to work on it for several years and that Amiga would terminate the agreement after so long.

However, the dates do imply that AI made it clear that this was inevitable.

Quote:

Seriously, the court documents list the MicroA1, SE and XE as not being Amigaones. As those were the only "Amigaones" sold, there never was a real Amigaone, according to Amiga Inc.

Actually since the comment is in paragraph 22, this is just in regard to Acube and the boards. Acube has no more right to sell Teron boards and call them AmigaOnes then I do, and I probably have more Teron boards then Acube. Its quite explicit that they dont have right to sell motherboards and call them Amigaones, they dont, if they allowed it, then anyone could sell Terons and call them Amigaones. I dont think that Acube actually has any Teron boards (or alot of Teron boards), and I actually think that this is a dig against Hyperion in reality. We now know that Hyperion actually sold a number of people who bought Amigaones from Eyetech OS4 for $100. In reality the contract doesnt allow them to do that. Basically Hyperion was making money on the side (and Eyetech was also likely not paying royalites on these boards). Amiga Inc is just closing the door, long after most of the cattle have escaped.
-Tig

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@All

The other thing that pi*ses me off is:

Where does this leave A-Cube and SAM, and future faster versions of their hardware?

And just after the announcement that A-Cube were going to distribute OS4 for classic Amigas...

This is all majorly f***ed up!

I am sick of it!

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a bit of speculations

1)
Hyperion now got good relationship to Acube System Srl.
Sam440ep project has been completed but they got close to zero chance to get license to use OS4.

2) Amiga Inc. has nothing to sell, nothing to offer but IP.
They got good relationship to ACK Controls. ACK got some imaginary hardware, probably got the license for OS4 already, but there is nobody interested to port OS4 to, coz Hyperion find the partner with real hardware and who they trust.

So the only chance for greedy Bill is to sue Hyperion and get the OS.

Conclusion: whoever won, Amiga (not the company - who still cares about them but the community, fans, spirit,..) loose ...Again

@Hans

Quote:

Seriously, the court documents list the MicroA1, SE and XE as not being Amigaones. As those were the only "Amigaones" sold, there never was a real Amigaone, according to Amiga Inc.

The definition of "AmigaOne" is clearly written in the contract.

Everyone has simply assumed that when that original definition of AmigaOne didn't come through and Eyetech decided to go for the MAI hardware instead, that this was done in *agreement* with AmigaInc. I have made comments on this forum a couple of times with references to the leaked contract, but I never commented on the AmigaOne definition, since I simply took for granted that a complimentary agreement/contract had been signed to cover this. Especially so since Eyetech released not only *one* product as "AmigaOne", but 'three*! Obviously, that never happened; no such agreement seems to have existed, and Eyetech seems to have *granted themselves* the right to dub anything they want as "AmigaOne". Three times.

And speaking of this, wasn't there a rumour back when the third "A1" was released (the MicroA1) that there was a conflict between Amiga Inc and Eyetech? That suddenly makes sense now.

AmigaInc can't exactly have been thrilled about the negative impact and bad press that the Articia based and generally crappy quality hardware brought on to the Amiga brand. Everyone assumed that this was done in agreement with Amiga Inc, but with this new light shining on the situation, a different history is revealed. No wonder Amiga Inc is ####ed. Maybe the reason to Eyetech leaving this "market" wasn't only because of MAI and the Articia died, but maybe they also got a Cease and desist letter from Amiga Inc?

@-Sam-

Quote:

Not quite sure how AInc. (should they win the case - and from the evidence it appears pretty much open and shut for them) are going to utilise OS4 thoough. - An OS with lots of ownership claims from other contractors and the main company that knows how it all works not in any position to want to help them.

That's Hyperion's problem, not Amiga Inc's. The contract between Amiga Inc and Hyperion clearly stipulates that Amiga Inc is the owner of the Amiga OS that OS4 is based upon, it clearly stipulates Amiga Inc's ambition to bring AmigaOS 4 back in house, and while it grants Hyperion the right to use third party contractors for some things, it does so under the condition that it is done in a way that it doesn't limit Amiga Inc's abilities to do so.

If that isn't enough, the contract furthermore has this paragraph:

"4.03Indemnification. Hyperion shall indenify and hold Amiga harmless from and against all claims, suits, demands, actions, judgements, penalties, damages, costs and expenses (including attorney's fees and costs), losses or liabilities of any kind arising from a claim that OS 4.0 or any other version of the Classic Amiga OS developed pursuant to this Agreement infringes a patent, copyright or other intellectual property right of any other person anywhere in the world."

Amiga Inc has their agreement with Hyperion, and the contractors *also* have their agreements with Hyperion. One can only hope that Hyperion has compensated their contractors in a sufficient way and told them how the situation is with the buy-back clause in their OS4 contract they have with Amiga Inc. But if any third party contractor is unhappy for whatever reason, they can only turn to Hyperion VOF, and no-one else. Hyperion is responsible for everything.

Quote:

How will AInc. support and work with an OS with no support at all from those that created it?

Maybe they hope to work with some of the developers directly? In the Q&A session at amiga.org, McEwen clearly flirt with the Friedens. If no "old" developers will hook up, maybe other will?

I'm just giving you my opinion..

But I think Hyperion gets exactly what they deserve. Not
only Ben Hermans beeing what he is, but also several
AmigaOS 4.0 developers who clearly has no way of
beeing polite and supportive when questions are asked..

Hyperion seems to have broken the contract on many,
many occations, not the least by out-sourcing the
entire development to sub-contractors without claiming
ownership of the code.. This is something me and many
with me have questioned for years. And all we got in return
was accusations of spreading FUD. Even from the main
AmigaOS 4.0 developer himself.

Hyperion: You made your bed..

@ChrisH

Quote:

Hyperion did slightly (?) underestimate the time to do OS4, but you have to remember that (IIRC) the original vision for OS4 was a new PPC kernel running most of the rest of OS3.x code under (probably interpreted) 68k emulation.

No, it was not "only" a PPC kernel, it also included native drivers (Picasso96 and others), fast file system rewrite, warp3D, OpenGL, TCP/IP stack, PPC native RTA system, a minimal USB stack, a virtual memory system, and various other enhancements (PPC datatypes, new HD toolbox, clipboard functionality, etc).

Quote:

This would have been a highly unsatisfactory solution, but it was the best they could imagine given the available budgets & time constraints.

The design goals was outlined by Hans-Jörg Frieden, Senior sofware engineer, Hyperion Entertainment. One can assume that the time and budget constraints was set accordingly. Under any circumstances, these design goals is what everyone *agreed* to, nothing less, nothing more.

Quote:

Surely Hyperion achieved that goal a loooong time ago? But once they saw the (complete lack of) performance, they obviously realised no one would buy it.

Well yes, MorphOS was a lot more than this at that time already, and at that time, the MorphOS development was very fast and had broad support. Perhaps they realized that the online FUD-campains wouldn't be enough to compete with MorphOS, and that they had to bring the OS up to MorphOS levels (at least, preferably past that even). But here is the problem; they didn't communicate this with Amiga Inc, they didn't get the needed approval. The contract *does not* specify a MorphOS level OS, but something less, something that takes 5 months to develop and is worth $25.000.

@Geennaam

Quote:

Geennaam wrote: The original contract can be viewed here under Exhibit A.

I have yet to spot any differences from the leaked draft I have before me.

It was true all along.

@takemehomegrandma

Quote:

I have yet to spot any differences from the leaked draft I have before me. It was true all along.

And it was apparently never updated to reflect the changes wrt the development of the OS, also precisely as we had speculated earlier.

to me, it seems that Hyperion continued development on OS 4 and made it a complete operating system, only because they were expecting Amiga inc to go belly-up, sometime around 2003 (upon hearing stories like AInc is totally broke and anable to pay their attorneys).
If that thing happened they would have complete control over the product. But somehow Ainc managed to be still breathing and the most bizzare of all, they seem to have quite a lot of money, nowadays... If Hyperion can't prove that Ainc is a different entity than the Ainc of 2003....
then I guess Bolton Peck is getting the money he is owed!

@Amigaworld

OK, having spent a few years in oblivion outside the Amiga community and having had to catch up with all that's gone on during this time, I think I might be in a better possition to fence sit than anyone here since I'm not emotionaly draw to either side.

This is how I see things (IMHO - of course).

A bunch of companies with the purpose of making money forgot this rule and the heart took control from the head. In an effort to keep the Amiga computer alive, money was given/spent/donated/stolen from and to a number of sources and the net result is a lot of people out of pocket.

Now, the people who have been investing the bulk of the cash (who don't care about some brandname - just their investment) have taken control of the situation in order to get as much of their investment back as they can. The only way this will happen is if somebody does their job properly and in order to do so, must apply the letter of the law (Contracts) to the current situation.

It is not Amigas job to keep any other company in buisness.

Hyperion failed to live up to their contract and so we have this latest legal action.

A whole bunch of you guys have sided with Hyperion possibly because they have a few folks on these forums (Unlike Amiga) and they have provided a working OS that you can hold in your hands (Unlike Amiga).

Problem is, you were supposed to have that working OS in your hands a few years ago when it might have mattered.

Now I'm aware of the lack of money and how development was delayed due to this, however in the letter of the law, that means nothing. Hyperion signed a contract promising something they were not able to deliver - fact.

In addition, Hyperion have taken Amigas IP into areas not covered by the contract (in order to stay in buisness?) which is in clear breach of both the contract and international law.

So forget personal feelings about individuals and focus on what is actually happening in the courtroom.

Clearly the "out of court settlement" didn't work. Don't you folks think they would have tried that? Why else do you think there has been such wide gaps between all the dates in the litigation?

Whatever feelings you may have about the various parties, Amiga is doing nothing wrong with bringing this courtcase. It is doing what any company that takes itself seriously would do. Face facts, buisness exists to make money - not to help others to do so.

It is unfortunate that it involves treading on the toes of people who give a damn about the world and the Amiga, but that is what the real world is all about.

Is this the end of the Amiga? No. This is possibly the last chance the Amiga has left at living.

"Were I to invoke logic, however, logic clearly dictates that the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few." Spock

Last edited by SpaceDruid on 01-May-2007 at 11:17 AM.

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@takemehomegrandma
The big quest is WHY the written contract was never updated. It's a big mystery, and one that has doubtless caused Hyperion lots of problems. My take is that (as I stated before) the 3 Amiga One partners (AI, Eyetech & Hyperion) were one big happy family, albiet cash-strapped, so they didn't get around to updating their written contract to match new verbal agreements - and then it was too late. I.E. Until after AI's investors thought AI wouldn't take over the world with AmigaDE, and thus decided it was better to sell AI's IP instead (at which point they wanted to moth-ball OS4).

edit:
@SpaceDruid
You got your post in before me, but I think it has relevance to your post too. I side with Hyperion *despite* the apparently sticky legal situation, because I believe they originally did this all in good faith - until Amiga Inc started stone-walling them & Eyetech (because they wanted the IP only).

Last edited by ChrisH on 01-May-2007 at 11:23 AM.

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@Van_M
Amiga Inc do *not* have a lot of money IMHO, they just create the *appearance* of having a lot of money, for the purposes of the lawsuit. If the lawsuit succeeds, Hyperion pays the bill. If the lawsuit fails, Amiga Inc can be bankrupted, Bill doesn't loose anything, and maybe the remaining IP can be sold for a pittance (probably right back to Pentti Kouri).

_________________
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@ChrisH

Quote:

ChrisH wrote: @Van_M Amiga Inc do *not* have a lot of money IMHO, they just create the *appearance* of having a lot of money, for the purposes of the lawsuit. .

I disagree. Lately it seems they may have had an injection of cash that has inspired all these activities. From sponsoring a sporting venue to a class action, it seems they are finaly able to tick some boxes on the "to do" list.

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@all

Can anybody please point me to the contract between AInc And Hyperion, please? - I've read the whole thread but I could not find it... ageing must have sped up, lately... :p

saimo

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@Geennaam

Thank you. I must have fooled myself... I had already clicked that link, but I guess I saved the file in RAM: and then checked out the contents of TMP: (where I had McEwen's declaration)

saimo

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@ChrisH

Quote:

The big quest is WHY the written contract was never updated. It's a big mystery, and one that has doubtless caused Hyperion lots of problems. My take is that (as I stated before) the 3 Amiga One partners (AI, Eyetech & Hyperion) were one big happy family, albiet cash-strapped, so they didn't get around to updating their written contract to match new verbal agreements - and then it was too late. I.E. Until after AI's investors thought AI wouldn't take over the world with AmigaDE, and thus decided it was better to sell AI's IP instead (at which point they wanted to moth-ball OS4).

My personal feeling is that Amiga Inc came to regret farming out the work of development of OS4 and the AmigaOne and came to wish they'd kept it in-house (although obviously financial constraints prevented them from doing this). Ever since coming to this decision they have been trying to get back OS4, which Hyperion has resisted since the various twists and turns that happened during the early years have made it impossible for them to recoup their investment (and they presumably feel that since the work they have done goes beyond the scope of what the original contract specified they should get more in return). Amiga Inc have deliberately refused to allow new hardware to be licensed for OS4 to force Hyperion to relinquish control of the OS to them. (I do believe that Amiga Inc still want to release hardware running OS4 - but they want it to be on their terms rather than Hyperion's)

It will be interesting to see Hyperion's reply as this will make their position clear for the first time, since most of what we "know" about Hyperions motivations and intentions comes from stuff read between the lines of Rogue and others postings, which isn't the best source of information. The only official thing we really know is that they disagree with Amiga Inc's assessment of the situation, but on what points we can only speculate.

@elatour

Quote:

Didn't the owner of DiscreetFX (Bill Panagouleas) reveal in a Total Amiga article of a year or so ago that he had been the infamous Bandito?

Yes, but I was refering more to the myth and history of the Bandito. A shadowy figure with interesting insider information. That would be most helpful these days.


Plaz