@AmiDog

Quote:

Amiga Inc signed a contract to have an engine tuned and gave Hyperion the blueprints for the engine. Hyperion not only tuned the eninge, but rebuilt it completely and built an entire car around it. Amiga Inc likes the car and want to have the entire car including all blueprints.

First of all, Hyperion unilaterally (it appears) decided that while they were contracted to tune the engine, tuning the old engine was not such a good idea, and that *instead* a rebuild and mounting it in a custom-fitted car would be much better.
Amiga inc now (well, 4 years ago) paid for the tuning of the engine, and wants its tuned engine. But Hyperion does not *have* a tuned engine. They have a rebuilt engine, which however does not fit into the engine mounts of AI's car anymore. Not to worry, they also have a custom-built car which the engine fits into just perfectly.

AI simply wants to drive to work tomorrow, which is why (they say) they put the engine in for a tune in the first place. So Hyperion better either find a tuned engine fitting the original mount, or hand over the custom car they decided to build instead of doing what they agreed to do and were paid for.

Quote:

The only sensible claim from Amiga Inc would be the tuned engine including blueprints.

But the OS described in the contract was never developed. Hyperion instead decided to develop something else.... and now you expect Amiga Inc to pay *more* money because Hyperion didn't do their job?

@Troels

Quote:

Are you being paid by AmigaInc now?

What is it with some of you, one day you think I'm paid by BBRV, another day you think I'm on Amiga Inc's payroll!


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You know nothing about what other contracts there could have been made that superceed the old one.

Why on earth do you assume there is another contract? *No* other contract has been presented to court (by *any* of the parties), and the only official statement on the subject is (and I quote): "The MicroA1 and SE/XE are motherboards. They are not the AmigaOne, and any computer built with these motherboards would not be an AmigaOne."

So no other contract has been presented, and you have a crystal clear statement from McEwen that can *only* lead to the conclusion that there is no other contract. Still you assume there is another contract?

In any way, this Teron/A1 thing is merely one of many examples put forward to prove the same thing, and it's not an issue by itself.

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I'm not so sure who's going to win this one, but the losers will be the OS4/Amiga community, thats for sure.

This fate was sealed years ago already, it's only that it's now that it becomes obvious to people.

@Troels

>The fact that Bill have never officially talked against the A1 board from Eyetech seems to indicate some level of agreement whether written on paper or not. There is no way he could say he was not aware of the ongoing sales or the fact that it was Teron(?) based and not from Escena.

and supposedly the got/get royalties on every AmigaOne sold...

@umisef

Ok, so Amiga Inc can sue them for not doing their job, which I guess would give them nothing (except maybe a payback of those 25k USD or whatever) as, unless I'm mistaken, Amiga Inc didn't pay them to do any work in the first place...

edit: As Amiga Inc hasn't shown the slightest interest in getting AmigaOS4 onto the market in the past four years, there is now way they can claim to have made any loss what so ever due to Hyperion building a new car rather than tuning their engine...

Last edited by AmiDog on 10-May-2007 at 02:02 PM.

@takemehomegrandma

Quote:

I'm here for the popcorn!

I'm not much for popcorn, but thank god for the hot chocolate machine here at work.

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That "old contract" as you put it is the very foundation for the whole "Amiga One Partners" cooperation,

This is not correct. It once was the foundation, but has been superceeded by events. It will probably be dismissed as irrelevant.

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5 years instead of 5 months

The failure to provide any working product witin a reasonable time frame was an big mistake by Hyperion. The inability of AI to do their part is an excuse for a delay, but not of this magnitude. They should have settled for a simpler 4.0, looking forward to adding features in versions 4.1 and later. They may have had an ulterior motive here, but it is hard to see, as they can simply not have been into this for the money.

Quote:

the contract both say that number of contractors must be a minimum (which Hyperion blatantly ignored)

I think the number of contractors actually may have been kept at a minimum, bearing in mind there was no funding for this project. How else get people to put the hours into the project when you cannot pay them? Saying something should be kept to a minimum is really stupid to put in a contract, unless you are the supplier and want to have it your way. Wasn't it Ben who drafted the contract?

As I've stated before, the problem is ownership and not the number of contractors. The feature set in the contract should belong to AI, no matter who did the actual work. Anything in excess of the specification, like ExecSG, is a different matter.

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@JackAttack

Quote:

This is not correct. It once was the foundation, but has been superceeded by events. It will probably be dismissed as irrelevant.

That was a good one! Really, that made my day!

Quote:

As I've stated before, the problem is ownership and not the number of contractors. The feature set in the contract should belong to AI, no matter who did the actual work. Anything in excess of the specification, like ExecSG, is a different matter.

Look, how can something so simple be misinterpreted so blatantly? Amiga Inc contracted Hyperion to do OS4, Hyperion released OS4 in Dec 2006, and this is the only OS4 that exists. Really, there is nothing more to it!

@Troels

Quote:

The fact that Bill have never officially talked against the A1 board from Eyetech seems to indicate some level of agreement whether written on paper or not. There is no way he could say he was not aware of the ongoing sales or the fact that it was Teron(?) based and not from Escena.

Agreed

Also don't forget Fleecy was also on the road in November 2003 / December 2003 as part of the OS4 on tour in the UK. He was publically seen promoting and endorsing the Eyetech AmigaOnes, including the MicroA1 prototype, at two shows in the UK.
Birmingham Micromart organised by Sven Harvey and Bath organised by Peter Gordon. These events were filmed including speeches and I reacon the film footage would make interesting evidence to show Amiga's CTO endorsing and promoting OS4 on the Eyetech sourced Hardware.

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@JurassicC

Yes right! But he wasn't Fleecy if i remember correctly... I forgot this, they made a MicroA1 presentation.

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ikir

For those of you stating that the AmigaOne from Eyetech is not an AmigaOne, please see the below quotes from the horses mouth.
So therefor my Eyetech AmigaOne IS an AmigaOne

Quote:

Bill McEwen - November 2, 2002 ........ we have broken up the company into two separate units. We have the desktop team focusing their attention on the AmigaOne and OS 4.0, and we have the Mobile Team who is focusing their attention on Amiga Anywhere and the content creation and distribution on the various products and platforms that we support. ......The Desktop team is focused on new products and services for the Amiga community, and the Mobile team is focused on products and services that are for the extended Amiga community........ With the above mentioned, here we go:.......... 2. AmigaOne is ready to fly, and I have attached the news from Eyetech here with this update. So congratulations to all and the community for your new Amiga hardware. 3. OS 4.0 is almost complete, and the Hyperion team is working very hard to get everything ready. They were delayed by having to complete some low-level work on the AmigaOne, and with their work completed they are ready to crank out the last remaining bit of work to provide a stellar achievement and package.

And now a few quotes from the "news from Eyetech here" release.

Quote:

AmigaOneG3-SE and AmigaOne-XE Earlybird Systems now on sale! November 2, 2002 - Eyetech We're there at last. Since the last update to the AmigaOne section of the Eyetech website last March we have had AmigaOne boards out with developers, and as a result of their feedback, the original firmware which we were to have shipped with the board (by Softex) has been replaced by specially adopted PPCBoot code. That, and identifying and fixing a minor problem with the Articia southbridge chip have resulted in us holding back shipments of the consumer version of the AmigaOneG3-SE until now. Meanwhile work has continued on the AmigaOne-XE - with the replaceable cpu modules - and the price of G4 cpu's has fallen a bit, as we had all hoped. That means the we are now able to take orders for both the 600MHz G3-based AmigaOneG3-SE, and the 800MHz G4-based AmigaOne-XE, starting now, and for delivery before Christmas. A 700MHz G3 (750FX cpu) version of the AmigaOne-XE will be made available - at reduced cost - early in 2003. But what about OS4 I hear you say - is that now ready? OS4 is now highly advanced, but no, is not currently ready for shipping, largely because Hyperion have had to divert a considerable amount of their time and effort in sorting out the AmigaOne's PPCBoot firmware. In my view, OS4 for the AmigaOne will ship early in 2003. So - and in response to much user and dealer demand - we are going to ship the AmigaOneG3-SE and -XL (both boards and pre-built systems) with a LinuxPPC and UAE installation. And - the best of all - those of you ordering an AmigaOne up to December 31st will be sent a free copy of OS4 as soon as it becomes available. That alone represents a saving of around 10% on an AmigaOneG3-SE system This of course will not suit everybody, and if you want a switch-on-and-go AmigaOne system then this Earlybird offer is not for you. In this case I'm afraid that you have a few more weeks to wait. However if it does suit you then don't delay - the offer closes on 31st December 2003 or when OS4 becomes available, whichever comes first.

Cheers,
Tim

@takemehomegrandma

Good to see you're enjoying yourself!

The documents (somtimes refered to as evidence) submitted by Amiga Inc are not the only relevant information. A number of agreements have been made in the subsequent years to make the definition of AmigaOnes and other things in the old contract irrelevant. Remember the lawsuit is only about the right to the use of the IP, specifically marketing and use of brands. The code ownership discussion is conducted in parallell.

Quote:

Look, how can something so simple be misinterpreted so blatantly? Amiga Inc contracted Hyperion to do OS4, Hyperion released OS4 in Dec 2006, and this is the only OS4 that exists. Really, there is nothing more to it!

Could you please elaborate on the "misinterpretation"? Hyperion did the extra features without the permission of Amiga Inc. They are not included. Standard proceedure.

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You know when you've been JackAttacked!

@CodeSmith

I am an American and I have worked a lot with French and Italian software firms this past year. The thing that strikes me most prominently is NOT that Europeans dislike Americans in any way, we have many many good examples of French, German and Italian hospitality while my family visited Europe earlier this year.
What the Europeans seem to dislike more and more is having Microsoft (an American company) dictate the direction of their lives with respect to tools and software devlopment. I noticed a growing resentment towards American software because American software is chacaterized as thing produced by Microsoft, which seems to be universally hated.

Scott

Last edited by scabit on 10-May-2007 at 03:40 PM.

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Check my blog AmigaOne Computing

@takemehomegrandma

Quote:

"'Amiga One' means the PPC hardware product developed by Escena Gmbh for the Amiga One Partners, initially intented to operate in conjunction with an Amiga 1200"

Yes...but "Target Hardware", per the original definition of the contract (see the Fleecy Moss notes) is not limited to AmigaOnes, in fact it says that it says "Not Limited to" specifically a series of PPC based boards. OS4 can run on any PPC "Target Hardware". The contract presented by Bill McEwen is specifically for a new requirement to ask Hyperion to port to another device, not the original contract attached in Fleecy's notes.
Hyperion and ACube have every legal right to sell Os4 on SAM according to the documents presented.

Scott

Last edited by scabit on 10-May-2007 at 03:41 PM.

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Check my blog AmigaOne Computing

@scabit

Quote:

Yes...but "Target Hardware", per the original definition of the contract (see the Fleecy Moss notes) is not limited to AmigaOnes, in fact it says that it says "Not Limited to" specifically a series of PPC based boards. OS4 can run on any PPC "Target Hardware".

Indeed. There is something that looks like "anything else" must be marketed to the Amiga platform to count though. That would exclude Macs or "Linux boards". The way I, as a non-lawyer, read it is that the primary intent of any PPC platform must be for the Amiga market to be included in "Target-Hardware" even with the "not limited to" phrase present.

But as you'd think SAM and ACK are not doing this primarily for Linux people or Mac people or embedded industries people, they are doing their stuff so we have something to run OS4 on, that would fit the SAM and ACK (and Troika) into this Target-Harware definition.

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All glory to the Hypnotoad!

@scabit

That's why I mentioned our sales guys, they were talking about the attitudes they found during their business deals. I've been to Europe for fun a few times and the people are on the average friendly. You're probably right about Microsoft, but Apple seems to get picked on too:
the French made a law just for iTunes.

@redrumloa

I can't speak for the others, but this is how I ended up on the "red side" of things. In the beginning, there was just the NG amiga. Genesi was going to provide the hardware, and the first Amiga Inc was going to provide the software. All was good. Then something happened, and the amiga forked. At that time I was heavily involved in open source and had seen quite a few project forks. To me this fork was not technical but political, so I did what I always did in that case and just stuck with the original group. I had to pick a side, so I did; the Morphos side of the story was just there, just like there was GCC and EGCS, we now had AmigaOS and MorphOS. AROS had peacefully coexisted for a while, so there was no reason to assume MOS was going to be much different. Then the trolls moved in and the animosity really got going. People in positions of authority made some really dumb remarks in public, and what used to be "those other guys" became "those arrogant gits". Most people got polarized, and what could have been a friendly rivalry like Amiga vs ST or C64 vs Speccy degenerated into a sea of petty hate. Fast forward to now, and I'm reminded of the old saying, "War does not determine who's right, but who's left". In this case, both sides took a huge beating and the amiga as a whole is a lot worse off because of it. I personally wish that whole time period hadn't happened, it diminished us all as people. I certainly cringe when I read some of the things I wrote, and I was one of the moderate ones.

I like clause 7.07 of "The Contract" (See clause 6.01 Moss pdf page 16 .ie the first contract is perpetual). Clause 7.07 (page 17 of Moss Pdf) means that you can't sue or terminate without first going to mediation. Termination is based on a dispute which you have to show and have accepted by the mediator(s).
Amiga Inc can sue to halt use of IP until you go to mediation which would allow termination if Hyperion were found to be in breach by the mediator(s).

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@Spectre660

Quote:

Spectre660 wrote: I like clause 7.07 of "The Contract" (See clause 6.01 Moss pdf page 16 .ie the first contract is perpetual). Clause 7.07 (page 17 of Moss Pdf) means that you can't sue or terminate without first going to mediation. Termination is based on a dispute which you have to show and have accepted by the mediator(s). Amiga Inc can sue to halt use of IP until you go to mediation which would allow termination if Hyperion were found to be in breach by the mediator(s).

I thought I read Amiga Inc tried mediation?

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"If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you." - Oscar Wilde

@JackAttack

That "old contract" as you put it is the very foundation for the whole "Amiga One Partners" cooperation,
Quote:

This is not correct. It once was the foundation, but has been superceeded by events. It will probably be dismissed as irrelevant.

Oh boy, that's utterly laughable. JackAttack, if this is the extent of your defense for argument against the previous statmement you WILL loose every time. It's basic law. This is the exact reasons to have a contract, to secure anything from happening that may hapen in future events that you may not want. The contract IS solid regardless of events unless a NEW contract is STATED and signed by both parties that it negates the previous contract and is explicid in what contract it is refering to. There is NO such contract or amendment signed or submitted as defensive evidence. The previous contract IS solid and stands regardless of any and all "events"


5 years instead of 5 months
Quote:

The failure to provide any working product witin a reasonable time frame was an big mistake by Hyperion. The inability of AI to do their part is an excuse for a delay, but not of this magnitude. They should have settled for a simpler 4.0, looking forward to adding features in versions 4.1 and later. They may have had an ulterior motive here, but it is hard to see, as they can simply not have been into this for the money.

Again, what is in the CONTRACT mandates what the company is expected to achieve. 5 years over 5 months is exsessive in any persons eyes. If this is the contract, Hyperion are in trouble regardless if the features added even if it gets up and cooks you breakfast.
I like all the features but an amendment to the signed contract should have been discussed and signed if deadlines needed to be re evaluated. It was not.

Last edited by SHADES on 11-May-2007 at 01:55 AM.

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It's not the question that's the problem, it's the problem that's the question.

@JackAttack

Quote:

A number of agreements have been made in the subsequent years to make the definition of AmigaOnes and other things in the old contract irrelevant.

Is this your own analysis, or do you accept this as true based on information from others? If it is your analysis, may I ask what your expertise is in this area, and what led to this conclusion? If it is based on information from others, what information would that be, and what are the sources?

More generally, you post confidently as someone who has knowledge of contract law and specific knowledge of the details of this dispute. Yet you don't cite any sources and no one (I guess) knows who you are and therefore what to infer about the validity of your statements, apart from any face value they might have.

Quote:

You know when you've been JackAttacked!

Hmm.

-- gary_c

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zukakakina.com - themes.tikiwiki.org

I love these old press releases

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Amiga, Inc. announced today that it has sold the Amiga Operating System to KMOS, Inc, allowing Amiga, Inc to focus on the growing mobile market.


Ravensdale, WA - 3:00pm Pacific Time, March 15, 2004

Amiga, Inc. announced today that it has sold the Amiga Operating System to KMOS, Inc, allowing Amiga, Inc to focus on the growing mobile market.

On April 23, 2003 Amiga entered into an Agreement with Itec LLC, later acquired by KMOS, Inc. for the transfer and sale of all of Amiga's right, title, source code, and all versions, from the "Classic Amiga Operating System" through AmigaOS 4.0 and all subsequent versions to KMOS, Inc.

"The expanding mobile market offers Amiga over 200 million potential customers that we need to focus on -Said Bill McEwen President/CEO of Amiga, Inc. - We began looking for a company that could focus and provide proper resources for the AmigaOS and the associated markets and we found that with KMOS, Inc." McEwen Said

"We welcome the acquisition of the AmigaOS intellectual property by KMOS. Together with KMOS, Hyperion looks forward to exploring new business opportunities for AmigaOS 4. I would like to reassure all our customers that the acquisition by KMOS will not have any adverse impact whatsoever on the release of the consumer version of AmigaOS 4.0 later this year." said Evert Carton, managing partner of Hyperion Entertainment VOF.

KMOS, Inc. is acquiring and developing technology enabling the company to participate in the worldwide communications market. Garry Hare, KMOS' CEO, said "KMOS is very excited about the commercial potential of this innovative operating system. At Amiga's insistence to which we totally agreed, we will honor the terms of the November 2001, agreement with Amiga One Partners: Hyperion VOF and Eyetech Group Ltd., an English Corporation, in their entirety. Mr. Hare continues, "I should point out, that except as they relate to the Amiga OS family of products, KMOS did not acquire the Amiga name, intellectual property or its DE line of products. These assets remain the property of Amiga Inc.".

About Amiga:

Amiga, Inc. established itself in 1985 as the premier provider of multimedia technologies to the world. Its award-winning software has been a mainstay for motion picture studios, government agencies, and entertainment enthusiasts from around the world. Today Amiga continues to lead the way in multimedia development by providing developers with hardware-independent technologies for writing and porting applications to a new hardware-agnostic, multimedia platform. AmigaDE and Amiga Anywhere powered with intent from the Tao Group, enables applications to run unchanged on a broad range of processors including ARM, StrongARM, Intel X-Scale, OMAP, MIPS, Intel x86, Motorola 68K, and Hitachi SH. It can run hosted on a wide variety of operating systems including Windows CE .NET, Windows 9x, 2000, and XP. AmigaDE and Anywhere applications can be purchased online at www.shopamiga.com. Amiga is based in Ravensdale, Wash. For more information visit www.amiga.com.

About Hyperion Entertainment VOF

Hyperion Entertainment is a privately held Belgian-German company, founded in March of 1999. The company specializes in 3D graphics and the conversion of top-quality entertainment software from Windows to niche-platforms including Amiga, Linux (x86,PPC) and MacOS (OS 9/X).

Hyperion Entertainment has undertaken contract-work in the field of 3D graphics for companies such as Monolith (www.lith.com) and has developed a mature, fast, small foot-print technology to bring 3D graphics to low power digital devices such as PDAs and STBs.

Hyperion is currently working on AmigaOS 4.0, a vastly enhanced PPC native incarnation of the groundbreaking OS introduced by Commodore in 1985.

About KMOS, Inc.

KMOS, Inc. a State of Delaware licensed corporation develops and distributes enabling technology, software applications and specialty content to the wired and wireless communication market.

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