Quote:

Sneaky wrote: @Tigger Quote: ... its about preventing Acube from selling ANY BOARD UNDER THE NAME AMIGAONE even if they are Teron boards that someone bought at an auction. Please do us and yourself finally a favor and take a look at the specs of your "Teron"Board/AmigaOne and the ACUBE Samantha Board and..

Again, Samantha isnt mentioned in Paragraph 22, and as far as I know they arent selling Samantha, however Acube is selling at least Processor Boards for the Teron.

Quote:

So please, find new arguments.

Why find new arguements when the current ones are correct. Lets look at Paragraph 22.

Quote:

22. On March 25, 2007, Hyperion announced that it had entered into a strategic partnership with ACube, an Italian software distributor. Under the partnership, ACube would act as a worldwide distributor of Amiga OS 4.0 for a range of hardware devices. A true and correct copy of the “ACube Systems and Hyperion Entertainment joint announcement” is attached hereto as Exhibit I.

Ok so paragraph 22 is about the March press release (which is Exhibit I), which is Hyperion making Acube a distributer.

Quote:

(Paragraph 22 continues) Under the Agreement between Amiga and Hyperion, Hyperion must obtain prior written consent from Amiga to subcontract any responsibilities. Amiga did not consent to this arrangement between Hyperion and ACube. Moreover, under the Agreement Hyperion has with Amiga, Hyperion is not authorized to distribute OS 4.0 to “a range of hardware platforms.”

Ok and this says the Hyperion must get written consent to subcontract responsibilites, ok thats called out pretty good in the contract, gotta agree with that, AI did not consent, ok we are pretty sure on that, and a quote aout "a range of hardware platforms" which is directly from the Exhibit I.

Quote:

(Even more of Paragraph 22) Finally, although the agreement between ACube and Hyperion purports to authorize ACube to distribute OS 4.0 to the AmigaOne – a platform created under license from Amiga and the only platform to which Hyperion was allowed to market OS 4.0 –

AmigaOne is a platform its a motherboard with a license for OS4, thats what all 3 members of the agreement have stressed. Terons arent AmigaOnes because they dont have a license for Amiga for OS4, only the Teron boards provided by Eyetech with a license for OS4 were AmigaOnes.

Quote:

(end of Paragraph 22) ACube's distribution of OS 4.0 purports to be to “AmigaOne (MicroA1, SE/XE).” The MicroA1 and SE/XE are motherboards. They are not the AmigaOne, and any computer built with these motherboards would not be an AmigaOne.

The MicroA1 and SE/XE are just motherboards, they arent necessarily AmigaOnes, they are only the same motherboard as the AmigaOne, Acube cannot make new AmigaOnes, and given the Feb press release and the mysterious "new" AmigaOnes that showed up in Italy, there is good reason to believe that this could become an issue, in addition since Acube and AI were in negotiations, they may well know that Acube has some new/old hardware. Once again this is about Acubes distribution, notice Eyetech, etc never gets mentioned in this entire section, because this is all about Acube distribution deal, from the first sentence to the last sentence.

MicroA1 and SE/XE are just motherboards, thats true, they need a license from AI (paid by the royalties from Eyetech) to become an AmigaOne, noone gets to just decide there hardware (even if identical) is an AmigaOne. Otherwise I got 3 AmigaOnes for sale here.
-Tig

_________________
We played the first thing that came to our heads, it just happened to be the best song in the world.

@Insanity

Quote:

as the old kernel was handed over in 68k assembler I really don't see how they could have used any of it?

Well, it would not have been difficult for the Friedens to have a look at the 68k sources to see how something was done in the original Exec, how things were structured, if they were looking for some guidance - regardless of whether or not they actually did/needed it.

What if they tried to show that it was sufficiently different from the original Exec - after all a number of other kernels have been written after the publication of the Exec sources in a book (what a cheap trick )? But if that's at all possible, then probably only if used in unrelated projects..

@Tigger

that whole section you quoted is assuming the worst with nothing to back it up. i really do believe this was just a misunderstanding caused by poor wording of the announcement. ainc reacting this way compounded the misunderstanding. i wont say who is at fault until i know all the facts but that portion seems to be a simple misundrstanding.



saying a person is guilty based on the content of that paragraph is like sending a person to death row for murder when the trigger hasn't been pulled to execute the murder.

Last edited by jkirk on 11-May-2007 at 06:21 PM.

_________________
Win•dows: n. A thirty-two bit extension and graphical shell to a sixteen-bit patch to an eight-bit operating system originally coded for a four-bit microprocessor which was written by a two-bit company that can't stand one bit of competition.

@jkirk
Quote:

saying a person is guilty based on the content of that paragraph is like sending a person to death row for murder when the trigger hasn't been pulled to execute the murder.

That reminds me of the Larry Niven short story "Time in Advance" where you could opt to do the time, *then* do the crime!

_________________
Here for the whimpering end

Looking through the recent documents, I don't see anything about Hyperions plan to take the embedded world by storm selling OS4 for products from Internet-enabled dog collars to orbital relay stations. So what have they been doing to try and sell OS4 for the past 3-4 years? They sure talked about it enough.

_________________
Here for the whimpering end

@CodeSmith

Quote:

CodeSmith wrote: @JackAttack takemehomegrandma is not defending amiga inc; he's siding with the enemy of the enemy of his favorite OS, MorphOS.

So Sherlock, why would he do that?

_________________
Men who have girlies in their avatars are Girliemen!

Quote:

@takemehomegrandma Quote: takemehomegrandma wrote: @jahc [quote] jahc wrote: @takemehomegrandma [quote]In my eyes Amiga Inc's case couldn't be more concrete. What makes you think it isn't? "Making stuff up" such as, "the AmigaOneXE/SE is not really an AmigaOne" Look at "1.01 Definitions", the very first thing to be defined: "'Amiga One' means the PPC hardware product developed by Escena Gmbh for the Amiga One Partners, initially intented to operate in conjunction with an Amiga 1200" There it is, in black on white. If the "Amiga One Partners" went ahead on their own and dubbed *different* hardware than what was outlined in their contract as "Amiga One", then *who* is making things up?

bplan AmigaOne licensing [part 1]
bplan AmigaOne licensing [part2]

_________________
Men who have girlies in their avatars are Girliemen!

@Tigger

Quote:

Again, Samantha isnt mentioned in Paragraph 22, and as far as I know they arent selling Samantha, however Acube is selling at least Processor Boards for the Teron.

Tigger, you are suffering a very critical form of GorgeDoubleUlism.
Even if you repeat it 1000times more, it doesn't becomes truth!
ACUBE are selling NO TERON BOARDS!!!
On their Website - click on Hardware. What do you see? I see Sam440ep, and a REPAIR Service for CPU Modules! Comprehension, Mr.!

For your convenience, here the original text from ACubes Site:

Quote:

ACube Systems started a replacement service for broken CPU on AmigaOne XE/Teron PX and MicroA1/Teron Mini motherboards processor modules. The broken CPU will be removed and replaced with one of the following CPUs: - 7455 @ 1 Ghz - 256 Kb 2nd level cache - 7457 @ 1 Ghz - 512 Kb 2nd level cache - 7457 @ 1.267 Ghz - 512 Kb 2nd level cache

WHERE ARE YOUR TERON BOARDS?!?
All I can see is a "REPLACEMENT Service for BROKEN CPU on AmigaOne(...)PROCESSOR MODULES"

So all your Paragrph 22 stuff you are talking about is completely irrelevant.

Because the topic is only about Software-Packages! Boxes to touch, with Amiga Logo on it an AmigaOS inside for Sale by a company NOT Hyperion!
That's what AmigaInc dislikes. Not Sam, not CPU-Module Repair, not ACube.

Quote:

as the old kernel was handed over in 68k assembler I really don't see how they could have used any of it?

Why on earth would you say that? I can use assembly just as easy as a higher level language to reverse engineer a product.

Quote:

so that leaves having used it as an influence for your current work but that can hardly be enough?

Its completely enough in this case.

Quote:

I mean how badly would SCO have raped IBM over their supposed code theft if intent and access was enough? Does that argument really hold up? someone LESS biased will have to answer it before I accept the answer.

Yes it does, read wikipedia here:

Clean Room Design

Which will explain better, if you dont believe wikipedia, find another site that will tell you about Clean Room Design. Exec_SG doesnt get close to being a clean room design, so without a license for AI, it cannot be used in ANY product.
-Tig

_________________
We played the first thing that came to our heads, it just happened to be the best song in the world.

Quote:

Sneaky wrote: @Tigger Quote: Again, Samantha isnt mentioned in Paragraph 22, and as far as I know they arent selling Samantha, however Acube is selling at least Processor Boards for the Teron. ACUBE are selling NO TERON BOARDS!!!

You notice I said processor boards from the Teron, and then you proved that by posting what you said. There is a belief that the number of Teron based boards running OS4 is not the same as the number of Teron based boards licensed for OS4 (ie Amigaones) with royalties paid to Amiga Inc. As you have shown, Acube is advertising they can fix modules for both AmigaOnes and Terons, Amiga is enforcing that Terons and AmigaOnes are not the same due to licensing issues.

Quote:

Because the topic is only about Software-Packages! Boxes to touch, with Amiga Logo on it an AmigaOS inside for Sale by a company NOT Hyperion! That's what AmigaInc dislikes. Not Sam, not CPU-Module Repair, not ACube.

Hyperion doesnt have the right to license Acube to do anything with OS4. Before the contract was cancelled they needed approval from AI, now they dont have a right period, do you understand that?
-Tig

_________________
We played the first thing that came to our heads, it just happened to be the best song in the world.

@Sneaky

Please calm down. Tigger is only explaining what (he believes) A Inc is saying in the documents and what they ment with "no AmigaOnes".

_________________
~
Everything you say will be misquoted and used against you..
~

@Tigger

Quote:

You notice I said processor boards from the Teron, and then you proved that by posting what you said.

You said selling, I and the rest of the world can only read repair.
I don't see any IP infringement in repairing something.
If My Siemens washing machine broke down I could try fixing it myself, call "daddy" or get someone from the Yellow Pages. But Siemens won't sue me, or the poor guy I called to come over and repair something for me. And noone needs a licence to do so either.

So I don't get the point, why you think this has something to do with the case AInc-Hyperion.

The explanation for mentioning "Teron" as a brand is also easy. Of course there are more boards based on the Teron-Design available, because it was never exclusive to the AmigaOne. Its just a sample PPC Board. Anybody in the world could have bought a batch of them.

But because of the mysterious Copyprotectionthingy done in UBoot to allow only AmigaOnes to boot AmigaOS that souldn't be a problem, right? (for which I have of course no proof, but was talked about much back then IMHO and when I remeber right was a cause for making the own UBoot implementation)

And if I can repair boards with the brand A that is physically nearly identical to all other boards with the mostly used brand B, why should a company restrain itself for only one of them?

Quote:

Hyperion doesnt have the right to license Acube to do anything with OS4. Before the contract was cancelled they needed approval from AI, now they dont have a right period, do you understand that?

No?
Hyperion licenced nothing to ACube. They formed a partnership where ACube was/should have been responsible for distribution

I don't need a licence to sell a cardboard box with a CD and some printed sheets in it (wild guess by me of the content of the AmigaOS4 distribution box, that is).
If I have a product, but I don't have the infrastructure to sell it, I go and find someone who does it for me. Whats the problem there.
I need someone producing those boxes. -> Hyperion. Needs the IP.
Marketing, selling, logistics, customer care -> ACube. Doesn't need IP or approval (except Marketing, perhaps. And there wasn't any.)

Edit: Of course I have to admit to, that the box has to be from the rightful owner
Edit: Typo.

Last edited by Sneaky on 11-May-2007 at 09:43 PM.
Last edited by Sneaky on 11-May-2007 at 09:43 PM.

@all

Its sad to me that, whatever your viewpoint, that there is a passion on both sides of the arguement when it comes to the users here but that level of passion dosen't seem to exist with at least some of those involved in this stupid lawsuit. If they had the same commitment and level of energy we'd be way past this nonsense already.

As a community I think we should be more concerned with a unified voice though of "Hey, Amiga and Hyperion, get over yourselves and work something out! Grab some beers together and come to a *#@#@ number!".

Where is the leadership there? There are not millions to be won or lost here at the moment. What delusion is going on in the heads of those involved that this is an impasse over something so vital that they need to go the lawsuit route?

_________________
Pegasos2 G3 running AOS 4.1 and MorphOS 2.0
Amikit user, tinkering with Icaros VM (AROS)
EFIKA owner
Amiga 1200

Quote:

Sneaky wrote: You said selling, I and the rest of the world can only read repair.

Then you need to read more about this and get back to me.

Quote:

So I don't get the point, why you think this has something to do with the case AInc-Hyperion.

Read Exhibit I, Read Paragraph 22, Paragraph 22 is all about Exhibit I (which is the Acube/Hyperion announcement), it has nothing to do with Amiga saying boards sold by Eyetech with licenses from them are not AmigaOnes as several are implying.

Quote:

Anybody in the world could have bought a batch of them.

Yes and it would be illegal for anyone to sell OS 4.0 to those people or to distribute it to them, see you are getting closer and closer to the reason for the last 3 sentences.

Quote:

No? Hyperion licenced nothing to ACube. They formed a partnership where ACube was/should have been responsible for distribution

Which they cant do without approval from AI since it involves there IP, and an OS they already bought from Hyperion and also a license the AI has cancelled as of December of 2006.
-Tig

_________________
We played the first thing that came to our heads, it just happened to be the best song in the world.

@Tigger

Tigger, you are assuming that Amiga Inc have provided ALL of the relevant information, and have given it with 100% accuracy and 100% honesty. Second, we have not yet seen the material Hyperion will be sending to the court. It could include something that changes everything. Like, say there WAS another contract, signed later, that completely nullified the earlier contact and gave Hyperion permanent ownership of OS4.

In any event, looking through the legal documents, I keep seeing things stated by Amiga that make me shake my head, and even cringe, because it looks like they are overstating their claims and overplaying their hand... They are being heavyhanded and hamfisted.

And I am quite certain there are details we don't yet have that will likely change everything.... or at least swing things very much in a different direction.

_________________
"I love peacenicks, they're so easy to conquer." --Ivan J Ironfist, the Dictator

@Tigger

While I think you have some valid points, I don't see how ACube is part of the whole situation. They haven't sold anything yet. Your conclusion might be valid for their own products (e.g. the Sam440), but they don't sell that yet - and even if they do, I can't see a product, which includes OS4. OS4 for classics and AmigaOne's are based on the valid license. If they are not, I think they can't sell those any more - if these boards are new ones, which I doubt (not in production since a while, or are they ?). CPU repairs ? What's wrong with that. I send them a piece of HW and get it fixed (and upgraded) back, why would someone need a license for that. I think the mention of ACube solely is in regards of Sam440 (or perhaps further extended to new AmigaOnes - which don't exist). We'll see. Good night.

_________________
AmigaOne XE G3/933/VIA/FM801/R200 (fixed),
G3SE/600/Voodoo3/Sil680/RTL8139/SBLive! (noiseless!)
µA1-MK2/G3/933/R200/CMI8738
XE/G4 (broken 7450/800)

@Thread

I have read about the amount given to Hyperion for the buyback not being a fair amount for the extra work (features) of OS4. Does anybody know what "extras" were done before the buyback and what were done after? Was the inclusion of said extras, and time spent on those instead of the core features the cause of the massive difference between the estimated time for completion and actual time?

@stew

It's not even a fair amount without extras.

@Tigger

You are simply unwilling to read and understand sentences. And, when I would try harder to put your nose on the few words that coun't, I'll get moderated.
Last try then.

Quote:

Sneaky wrote: You said selling, I and the rest of the world can only read repair. Then you need to read more about this and get back to me.

Why don't you do that more often yourself? That's no argument BTW, so we all can agree, that, as you didn't defend your position, this point can now be stated as fact.

Quote:

Read Exhibit I, Read Paragraph 22, Paragraph 22 is all about Exhibit I (which is the Acube/Hyperion announcement), it has nothing to do with Amiga saying boards sold by Eyetech with licenses from them are not AmigaOnes as several are implying.

So you are now shifting gear to discuss the AmigaOne Mobos are not AmigaOne subject? So you are giving up on the old one?
So you have no additional argument stating "why you think this has something to do with the case AInc-Hyperion."?

So we all can take for granted, that it has not, as you didn't give an argument, but chose to shift subject.

(BTW, its clearly written in the Motion, that AmigaOne MoBos are no AmigaOnes. So perhaps you should sell yours as Terons without AmigaOS, just to be on the save side )

Quote:

Sneaky wrote: Anybody in the world could have bought a batch of them. Yes and it would be illegal for anyone to sell OS 4.0 to those people or to distribute it to them, see you are getting closer and closer to the reason for the last 3 sentences.

First of all, there is a Copyprotection in AmigaOS, so that it can only be run on MoBos with an AmigaOne UBoot. I have never ever heard anybody state, that AmigaOS runs on the unmodified Teron Sampleboards. Thats not even what AmigaInc is complaining. So drop that point. Its irrelevant. But I repeat myself, sorry.

Quote:

Sneaky wrote: Hyperion licenced nothing to ACube. They formed a partnership where ACube was/should have been responsible for distribution Which they cant do without approval from AI since it involves there IP, and an OS they already bought from Hyperion and also a license the AI has cancelled as of December of 2006.

Which is no fact, but what has to be proven by this court case or not. Right?

As I'm sure you will be still repeating yourself, I ask someone to take over.
That was my last post on this subject to you. As I'm no native speaker, my words and phrases repository is quite empty also

@all
Don't forget to have fun!

@Sneaky

Quote:

It's not even a fair amount without extras.

This is irrelevant. Hyperion signed a contract agreeing to do the work in a timely fashion. They failed to live up to the contract. Why should ANY company have to pay it's contractors more money for being late?

Amiga Inc don't pay Hyperions salaries, Hyperion pays it's own salaries. If Hyperion can't afford to because it failed to secure enough funds in the origional contract to cover the workload, that fault is with Hyperions management.

_________________
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