@stew

Quote:

stew wrote: @Hans Quote: It's still stalling, even though they are legally entitled to it. Amiga Inc. wants to push things through as fast as possible (something that they can legally request). Hyperion wants the time to put together a proper defence. I don't mean stalling in a negative sense. I thought the lawyers on both sides have been working on this for awhile. Surely Hyperion had to see this coming. They should have already been prepared. Perhaps there is something up their sleeve. I hope so for their sakes as they have not presented much so far.

They probably have. However, 10 days is still a bit short to go through Amiga Inc.'s documents and construct a defence directly geared to Amiga Inc.'s claims.

Hans

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arg!!!! This is starting to get good just at a time where I am about to go on vacation. The Island I am going to has no phone or internet. It really is just a glorified sandbar at about 150feet wide. maybe I can sneak into town on the mainland and log in at the local library.

Kgrach

@debrun

I can see Hyperion getting the time they need to translate documents (even if they really don't need it) but I'm pretty sure that all documents must be submitted in the language of the court where it is being tried and nothing else.

Hyperion could contend that the case should be tried in Belgian (or Denmark for that matter) but I have no idea why.

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@all
Does anyone know how international private disputes like this are resolved? (Got any references, etc.?) Seems to me, you have to go to the country where the alleged violation is taking place to get anything done. Does a US movie company file a suit in Los Angeles to stop black market DVDs being made in China, for example? Or does a US company go to the legal system in the US or in Japan if they spot a copyright/trademark violation in Japan.

IIRC, the US courts don't have much if any power in private matters of other countries. Plaintiffs have to seek justice in the country where the accused is, it seems to me. In the case of a contract dispute, does the "location" of the contract agreement make a difference, and how is this determined? Recall that Thendic/Genesi filed suit in Washington state to resolve the dispute with Amiga, Inc., a then-Washington state company, not in Paris. Would it have made more sense for Amiga, Inc. to take action in Belgium? Any ideas or info on this?

-- gary_c

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Myself, I think Hyperion needs to stall. From all that I have read, they don't have much of a case. Not taking sides, as I hope Hyperion can pull of a miracle, but A.Inc. has the deck stacked heavily in their favor. Thats probably why they want this done quickly.

But burning bridges in such a small community is not the way to do it.

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@wolfe

Quote:

Myself, I think Hyperion needs to stall. From all that I have read, they don't have much of a case.

Well, I *thought* Amiga Inc had a concrete case.. i.e. "we paid you the buyback clause money, so give us OS4".. But if that really was the case, then why is Amiga Inc making stuff up? There must be something we dont know.

@jahc

Ok, but if Ainc wins are we sure that Hyperion can give "whole" AmigaOS 4 sources ?

I think some pieces of source code are only in the hand of some developers (Uboot? Some driver? ExecSG?).



@all

The court case can be do in the nation where there was the agreement (USA).

@Zender

Isn't Uboot open source. The main problem is that If Amiga Inc wins and then cuts ties with the developers.

What Amiga Inc have done since 1999 isn't exactly encouraging.

Dunno about you guys, but if I were sued by a German or French company, even if I spoke the language fluently, I would have to have a professionally made, signed-as-a-true-record translation before I could answer the allegation. The risk of mis-interpreting a word or phrase made in the plaintiff's mother tongue is too great.

[edit work->word]

Last edited by tonyw on 10-May-2007 at 06:49 AM.

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It makes (legal) sense to keep your legal action in the same language as your (disputed) contract.

@Yabba

Quote:

Yabba wrote: @Hans Quote: - Papers have been filed to stall the legal process (i.e., deny the "expedited discovery...") Not really. Hyperion objects to Amiga Incs wish to expedite the response from Hyperion. Hyperion should have 30 days to respond according to US law, but Amiga Inc wants that to be 10 days. The reason for that is unknown, but I would expect that Amiga Inc wants to rush things hoping Hyperion would miss certain details. However, I find it sad that Amiga Inc is trying this trick when they should just rely on the law as it is written. Not trying to rewrite it for their own purposes. rgds, Stefan

It will really be interesting to see whether some extra 20 days will make Hyperions case any stronger whatsoever. I very much doubt it.

Hyperion is grasping for straws here, and the only thing they can hope for by the tricks like this is delaying the process for a month or so. I really hope for Hyperions sake that they have at least decent cards they can play instead of putting their hope to minor card tricks like this (as well as that language one; everyone knows perfectly well that Hyperion speaks English (the original contract was written in english for instance, all communications between Amiga Inc and Hyperion prior to establishing the contract was in English, they have showed excellent English skills on online forums throughout the years, etc), but it seems that something is rotten in the state of Denmark! ).

@CodeSmith

Quote:

I can't see a trained professional making that sort of dumb mistake

Quite an interesting observation. I have also been thinking about the motives if Amiga Inc's actions in their several court cases. They seem legally incompetent and their attorneys too. Any professional legal counsel would have stopped them from doing stupid things, like this motion. Still they failed miserably against Garry Hare, had to create a new company to cheat employees of salaries and get away from contracts.

The cheap trick going for the expedited discovery could only cause them to lose initiative and, in a jury trial, face. Especially since they have not managed to do it correctly according to international law. Do they really think Hyperion is completely ignorant and incapable? I think it will be harder for them to argue a morally just cause. The moral aspect too seems more and more important to AI, as this attempt indicates they are aware their claims are weak.

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@kgrach
Quote:

by kgrach on 10-May-2007 4:19:14 arg!!!! This is starting to get good just at a time where I am about to go on vacation. The Island I am going to has no phone or internet. It really is just a glorified sandbar at about 150feet wide. maybe I can sneak into town on the mainland and log in at the local library. Kgrach

lucky you!!

@pertinaxone

Quote:

pertinaxone wrote: @Darth_X This the chap/firm? http://www.kinsellaw.com/pages/333664/index.htm Jason

I would suspect Ben and Hyperions other representatives are the true source of their response.

Regarding AI's past and present performance it makes you wonder where they find their legal counsel?

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@gary_c

Quote:

gary_c wrote: @all Does anyone know how international private disputes like this are resolved? (Got any references, etc.?) Seems to me, you have to go to the country where the alleged violation is taking place to get anything done. Does a US movie company file a suit in Los Angeles to stop black market DVDs being made in China, for example? Or does a US company go to the legal system in the US or in Japan if they spot a copyright/trademark violation in Japan.

In this case, how lawsuits would be handled was agreed upon by both parties in the contract it seems(?):

"7.08 Forum. The exclusive jurisdiction and venue of any lawsuit between the parties arising under this Agreement or out of transactions contemplated hereby shall be the Superior Court of Washington for King County or the United States District Court for the Western District of Washington at Seattle and each of the parties hereby submits itself to the exclusive urisdiction and venue of such court for the purposes of such lawsuit."

Quote:

IIRC, the US courts don't have much if any power in private matters of other countries. Plaintiffs have to seek justice in the country where the accused is, it seems to me. In the case of a contract dispute, does the "location" of the contract agreement make a difference, and how is this determined? Recall that Thendic/Genesi filed suit in Washington state to resolve the dispute with Amiga, Inc., a then-Washington state company, not in Paris. Would it have made more sense for Amiga, Inc. to take action in Belgium? Any ideas or info on this?

IANAL but I guess that if Hyperion (after the court in the US has ruled in benefit of Amiga Inc) decides to give Amiga Inc and the US court the middle finger and simply ignores the court ruling (as Amiga Inc has done a couple of times already ), then I guess Amiga Inc has to go to Belgian court in order to enforce the ruling. If they want to. If they already have the OS sources (or if they won't need them), maybe they will simply settle with the US court order and go on selling AmigaOS the way they want and consider Hyperion to be out of the picture (at least as long as Hyperion doesn't do the same of course ).

@jahc

Quote:

jahc wrote: @wolfe Quote: Myself, I think Hyperion needs to stall. From all that I have read, they don't have much of a case. Well, I *thought* Amiga Inc had a concrete case.. i.e. "we paid you the buyback clause money, so give us OS4".. But if that really was the case, then why is Amiga Inc making stuff up? There must be something we dont know.

In my eyes Amiga Inc's case couldn't be more concrete. What makes you think it isn't?

"Making stuff up"

@Rob

Quote:

Isn't Uboot open source. The main problem is that If Amiga Inc wins and then cuts ties with the developers.

Exactly... if AInc wins it is very hard to get every "closed" source (in the hand only of the developer that develops it).

Quote:

What Amiga Inc have done since 1999 isn't exactly encouraging.

Can you rembeber me ? Do you mean "vaporOS" (AmigaOs 4.0->4.1->5.0 in few years)?

Last edited by Zender on 10-May-2007 at 07:33 AM.

@wolfe

Quote:

wolfe wrote: Myself, I think Hyperion needs to stall. From all that I have read, they don't have much of a case.

Just because AI's arguments seem strong on their own is no guarantee they will stand up in court. There are such a lot of mitigating circumstances, naturally ignored in their claim. The legal system is a kind of alternative reality, making it hard to read between the lines, for those fortunate not to have first hand experience. I don't think you have to worry.

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@takemehomegrandma

Quote:

It will really be interesting to see whether some extra 20 days will make Hyperions case any stronger whatsoever.

In any case it might give them the possibility to build a stronger defense. They might have already been prepared in a way that they expected an upcoming lawsuit, but in no way they could imagine the full line of argument of the plaintiff's lawyers.
I've asked this before, but what happens if Hyperion's request is denied? How many days would there be left, just 2 days or another 10 days?

Quote:

everyone knows perfectly well that Hyperion speaks English

Again, that's not the question here. If the Hague Convention in fact dictates that AI's should have filed in at least one of the official languages of Belgium, then this is a major formal mistake and might be *one* of the reasons why Hyperion's request against the "expedited discovery" might be granted.

@takemehomegrandma

Quote:

In my eyes Amiga Inc's case couldn't be more concrete. What makes you think it isn't? "Making stuff up"

such as, "the AmigaOneXE/SE is not really an AmigaOne"