Shouldn't OS4 for classic systems be shipping about now? I mean, last I heard they were running off the CDs for distribution, and on the Hyperion website it says they are proceeding with their plans regardless of any lawsuit.

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Here for the whimpering end

@jorkany

man this forum sure has gotten big :) One thing is for sure A-Inc may not do much for us but they do give us a lot to talk about lol

@fairlanefastback

Quote:

Also that Amiga OS was not understood well by Fleecy or Bill or anyone at Amiga since they were concentrating on DE and that the "Ask Fleecy" stuff on the web was actually always forwarded to Hyperion for them to write the answers for him.

I don't think these two understand much of anything...

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#amiga.org @ irc.synirc.net

@elektro_O

Sure they understand loads of stuff, just unfortunate for us it has naught to do with the Miggy or her software environment lol

The last documents tells the truth about what happened, we all know that, i'm sure. So i invite all to read the Hyperion version of the facts. Sadly we all know Amiga Inc...

Last edited by ikir on 22-May-2007 at 09:58 PM.

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ikir

@ikir

With a bit of luck these latest submissions should cut down on the "It's cut and dried, black and white, I've been here, seen it all and know better than all of you" posts by certain 'members' (no offense ).

Go Hyperion!

One good thing which may, at least, come out of this mess of litigation is a greater appreciation for the development process of OS4 thus far, in terms of politics, business and how it has been experienced by those contractually involved parties.

_________________
Troll - n., A disenfranchised former potential customer who remains interested enough to stay informed and express critical opinions.
opp., the vast majority who voted silently with their feet.

@ikir

Yeah, it does appear that there's light at the end of the tunnel.

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@Boot_WB

Yeah, go Hyperion. I visited the Friedens last summer*, have been in close contact with Rose, Alan and both the Frieden brothers since day one of the AmigaOne program, and I have yet to see ONE thing done by Amiga Inc that would benefit us Amiga users. They've been actively stalling the development of OS4 for several years now. Already at the first version released to customers we had an OS. If there had been hardware other than the A1 we would have been SO much ahead by now. Chasing down those last 1% of bugs takes an awful lot of time. But none of us would have cared if OS4 was 99% finished, as long as it was _out there_, and running on more than one platform.

I am so ####ed off at AI that it has taken all my power to stay silent until Hyperion had presented their case.


*: And will hopefully visit them again this summer. There's still room in the "amigans doing things we don't really know" bicycle tour where we start with a banquet in the mosel valley and finish in Italy, having hopefully met with both the Friedens and some other amigans along the way. As well as crossing the alps in one day, seeing Liechtenstein, walking through either a 747 and the U-9 or a Concorde and a TU-144 (as well as seeing a bunch of cool stuff at either site), tasting copious amounts of white whine and generally having a good time... Contact me for details, or see http://olegil.amigaos.se/Planning_2007/. I don't give a flying rats ass what "camp" you're in. If you wanna have fun crossing the Alps on a bicycle in August, CONTACT ME NOW!!

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This weeks pet peeve:
Using "voltage" instead of "potential", which leads to inventing new words like "amperage" instead of "current" (I, measured in A) or possible "charge" (amperehours, Ah or Coulomb, C). Sometimes I don't even know what people mean.

I think I will be proved right by saying both sides are going to lose.

@Benji

Don't you mean all three sides - A.Inc - Hyperion - Amiga Community . . .


@all

This still could just be about the IP. Hyperion keeping the OS but not the name " AMIGA " . . .

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Avatar babe - Monica Bellucci.

Just finished reading through all the documents. (Boy am I going to be dead tired tomorrow morning!)

I have to say I'm impressed with Hyperion's defense. It's far more credible and comprehensive than I expected.

On the one hand this is a positive thing, as I fully believe that Hyperion are due a fair level of compensation for their awesome work.

Before their defense was posted I stated that I believed that the best they could hope for is ownership of OS4.0 bereft of the Amiga trademarks. Having seen their case, I believe they actually have a chance of securing more than that, but I still think it is likely that will get no or limited use of the Amiga brand in conjunction with OS4.0, and possibly also limited ability to further develop the OS (i.e. their subsequent releases might be limited to the OS4.x numbering - although this doesn't actually limit future development, it is slightly messy, and would allow Amiga Inc to proceed with their own 5.0)

I should note that I am not a lawyer, so this is speculation on my part having read all the publically available documents.

I am also slightly concerned over the issue of the $25,000 payment. As far as I could tell Hyperion admit to taking payment of $22,500 against debts of $5,000. If this is the case what do they contend the other $17,500 was supposed to be for? I wonder if the grey area over this payment could at the very least see Amiga Inc awarded as much of the source and object code of OS4 as Hyperion are able to transfer without violating contracts made with independent contractors.

Although this all appears to be great news for Hyperion, I am worried about the potential future for Amiga owners. We could end up with both OS4 and OS5 available for different hardware, we might end up with OS4 fully available finally, but with limitations on future development of the OS, or we might see OS4 released by Amiga Inc without Hyperion being properly compensated.

None of these scenarios are particularly appealing and I still hope that at some stage in proceedings Amiga Inc and Hyperion can find common ground and come up with a sensible agreement that would see OS4 released for a range of hardware platforms and properly promoted. I am concerned however, that both sides seem to be seeking to rid themselves of the other.

Hyperion seem to feel they already have an exclusive license to market and sell OS4 and feel that Amiga Inc are unnecessary and obstructive to this process. Meanwhile Amiga Inc appear to have attempted to do an end run around Hyperion by attempting to deal directly with contractors such as the Fridens to acquire some or all of the sourcecode piecemeal, which suggests they want to dispose of Hyperion and make use of OS4 for their own ends.

I fear that this could mean that even if one side decides that they are facing likely defeat in the court case and offer a deal the other side could rebuff it, buoyed by the case swinging in their favour, and choose to let the course case run it's course to attempt to eliminate the other party from the picture entirely.

Last edited by madtrekker on 23-May-2007 at 01:21 AM.

@madtrekker

Quote:

am also slightly concerned over the issue of the $25,000 payment. As far as I could tell Hyperion admit to taking payment of $22,500 against debts of $5,000. If this is the case what do they contend the other $17,500 was supposed to be for? I wonder if the grey area over this payment could at the very least see Amiga Inc awarded as much of the source and object code of OS4 as Hyperion are able to transfer without violating contracts made with independent contractors.

No they say the $5000 is another debt for other services rendered and not related to the "buy out" or "buy in" at all. They also refer to a section that says all other debts to them need to be paid before monies can be applied to the "buy-in". In addition to that they say what money was sent to them for the "buy-in" at one time was short, and only amounted to $22,500, not $25,0000 and therefore Amiga never activated the buy-in at all,as I read it, according to their claims.

Last edited by fairlanefastback on 23-May-2007 at 01:37 AM.

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Pegasos2 G3 running AOS 4.1 and MorphOS 2.0
Amikit user, tinkering with Icaros VM (AROS)
EFIKA owner
Amiga 1200

I finally went trough all the documents so I can, at last, give my opinion on this matter.

I truly believe that Hyperion have the upper side. The way I see it is that they have moral and legal ground to stand on.

They responded to each and every claim that AInc#2 made and, in my opinion, they have shown, without a doubt, that AInc #2's claims are not founded in true facts.
It clearly show's that AInc#2 tried to present the facts with the, so called, half-truths and uncomplet facts with the goal to show that their claims are well founded.

The only fact that remains unexplained in full is the claim of Hyperion that the amount of money received in 2006 is not for the 'buy-in' yet for other debts AInc had towards Hyperion, but, even if that would turn out not to be the case, that money came long after the OS4.0 was finished, according to the specifications of Anex I of the original 2001 contract, and that would mean that Hyperion is, in fact, granted a full right over OS4.0 including the 'Amiga OS' trademark.



sorry about any grammatical errors

edit: added an '/n' and corrected a wrong bold mark

Last edited by Teddy on 23-May-2007 at 03:16 AM.
Last edited by Teddy on 23-May-2007 at 03:11 AM.

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You can crack anything with your head, even the head itself.
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...proud AOS user since 1993
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@olegil

Quote:

I am so ####ed off at AI that it has taken all my power to stay silent until Hyperion had presented their case.

I congratulate you on that. I can only imagine, now that I know for a fact what I belived was true, how hard it was for you to keep it in.


[OT]
That tour of yours sure does sound very interesting. I'm even considering to join you on you're epic journey.
[/OT]

_________________
You can crack anything with your head, even the head itself.
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...proud AOS user since 1993
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deleted

Last edited by tonyw on 23-May-2007 at 05:08 AM.

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cheers
tony

Hyperion Support Forum: http://forum.hyperion-entertainment.biz/index.php

@Teddy

Quote:

The only fact that remains unexplained in full is the claim of Hyperion that the amount of money received in 2006 is not for the 'buy-in' yet for other debts AInc had towards Hyperion

That money could have been for the Arctic port. There was also something about Amiga Inc owing them $5000 in legal expenses.

I was shocked to read that the unsigned Arctic contract Amiga attached is different from the one that was actually signed. It makes you wonder how desperate they must be, trying to have a case by manipulating documents.

Also in the emails between McEwen and Friedens, the Friedens suspect there's a lawsuit coming, while McEwen assures them this is not the case and they won't try to get ExecSG via court. McEwen also acknowledges in his email that the Friedens have the rights to ExecSG and he wants to make a deal with them to get ExecSG and get the Friedens to work for them directly. We also find out that Hyperion was attempting to resolve the issue out of court via Binding Arbitration, which Amiga refused.

Just read it and I have to say that I don´t believe my eyes!

IF Amiga Inc demostrated manipulated agreements in the cour,t then I don´t really understand how they are going to win this case.

Not only the above but they risk a lot more with such a move..

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@Cool_amigaN

Quote:

Just read it and I have to say that I don´t believe my eyes!

Crazy stuff indeed. Hyperion displays a lot more insight into what happened than AI in their documents, in my non-professional opinion. What irritated me a little were the Friedens' statements that they had the impression that AI was never really interested in AOS. Does this matter in this case? Is there any line in the contract that says "if one party gets the impression that another party has no interest in the object of this contract ..."? Maybe leaving this out would have made their statements look more objective.

Contrary to my expectation, they do talk about the money issue, although with a slightly different emphasis ('has not shown proof for the remaining $2.50" vs "part of that is for previous unpaid services").

) Wether Amiga WA was actually insolvent/bankrupt and wether hyperion thus received further rights is a very big question.

) Amiga seemingly submitting an incomplete contract will have to be explored. Strange move when both parties have the contract.

) Subcontracting core work without aquiring the full rights to that work ist really strange and could mean a violation of the contract. Eg Hyperion was supposed to hand over the entire project under certain circumstances which they clearly cant.

) Claiming the "developer pre-release" is the actual released OS4 is questionable. Much argument rests on this.

) Hyperions problem is, they accepted money from Amiga D which was supposed to invoke buyback. Even if hyperion used most of the money to pay for "other debts of Amiga" and thus Amiga didnt actually transfer enough money to meet 25k$, hyperion basically accepted that Amiga D have taken over the contract of Amiga WA and have the possibilty to invoke buyback.



Personally I wouldnt follow hyperions argument, though its stronger than I expected. Unfortunately this means it will take quite some time before this is resolved in either way.