Quote:

umisef wrote: @fairlanefastback Quote: I believe thats why they entered the deposition from a previous case as an exhibit, the one refering to only $100 in the bank or so. Well, no --- whether Amiga Inc(W) had $100 or $100,000,000,000 in the bank in August of 03 has absolutely no bearing on whether they were insolvent prior to April 23rd 03. That's pretty obvious, isn't it? Yes, the same deposition also states that AI(W) had not paid a number of debts prior to that date, but it says absolutely nothing about AI(W)'s ability to pay those debts prior to the deposition date. Quote: in the very recent Seattle Times article about having been owed personally $740,000+ that could not be paid to him. So? First of all, I believe that was a "was no paid" rather than a "could not be paid", and secondly there was nothing in the article indicating about any inability to pay debt prior to April 23rd, 2003.

There is nothing showing full payment for the buy-in/buy-back before August 2003. Bill says they were insolvent by August 2003 as I read it:

Quote:

from the deposition, page 12: Q: Is Amiga as we sit here today financially solvent? A: No. Q: Is it fair to say that its debts exceed its credits? A: Yes.

The lawyers for Hyperion can easily ask him if they feel it necessary if Amiga was insolvent prior. From the surrounding testimony in the desposition that seems likely. (i.e. people working for no money for months, no revenue streams etc).

Quote:

from the deposition, page 12: Q: Are there any current revenue streams, for lack of a better word, that Amiga has? A: Minimal. Q: What are those streams? A: Sales off the website.

Also in there making solvency in April 2003 unlikely is:

Not paying Labor and Industry from August '02 forward until at least the time of the deposition.

Not filing or paying federal income taxes for '01 or '02 because "We don't owe them money." (You are still supposed to file). This could indicate a long period of prior insolvency.

This could be why the partial payment to Hyperion for the buy-in, who say they were not aware of the insolvency at the time in August 2003 actually was funded by ITEC and Tachyon, rather than Amiga Washington, possibly because Amiga Washington was insolvent.

So we'll have to wait and see if Hyperion asks (if they even need to) and if they do what Bill will say.

Last edited by fairlanefastback on 24-May-2007 at 04:05 AM.
Last edited by fairlanefastback on 24-May-2007 at 03:59 AM.
Last edited by fairlanefastback on 24-May-2007 at 03:38 AM.
Last edited by fairlanefastback on 24-May-2007 at 03:37 AM.

_________________
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Amikit user, tinkering with Icaros VM (AROS)
EFIKA owner
Amiga 1200

@kgrach

Quote:

Yea but Gary your opinion on many subjects really stray from reality too

Oh really? It's pointless to flame with broad putdowns. Quote something specific I said, that you think strays from reality, and we can see who's got the problem.

Quote:

Unless AI can submit some damn good reasons for their actions they are toast.

This armchair arbitrating is great. Nobody here really has any idea how this is going to work out. But have fun sounding like you do if that's what floats your boat. LOL.

-- gary_c

_________________
zukakakina.com - themes.tikiwiki.org

@gary_c

Quote:

Nobody here really has any idea how

Winnie the Pooh you mean?

....and Tigger too?

hehe

Sorry, could not resist. I agree on the "Nobody" statement. :)

_________________
Pegasos2 G3 running AOS 4.1 and MorphOS 2.0
Amikit user, tinkering with Icaros VM (AROS)
EFIKA owner
Amiga 1200

@fairlanefastback

Quote:

I have no idea the nature of his issues with him, but if anything its harder to distinguish what portions of his posts are "well-founded" as you say when they also have stuff like that in them.

Sure, I agree with you there. But most people probably participate in web forums with a combination of "I wanna write this way because it makes me feel good" and "I wanna win hearts and minds" -- two motivations that are at odds as often as not. We see people shooting themselves in the foot constantly, if you want to think about what would make their posts more persuasive, but personality, I guess, compels them to do that.

-- gary_c

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zukakakina.com - themes.tikiwiki.org

@gary_c

How much you wanna bet Hyperion wins the court case?
All the postering and squabbles mean nothing if you lose in court!!!

How bout if you lose. You and Tigger go to MorphZone and stay there never to return to Amigaworld.net again

Kgrach

Last edited by kgrach on 24-May-2007 at 05:00 AM.

@kgrach

Quote:

kgrach wrote: @gary_c How much you wanna bet Hyperion wins the court case? All the postering and squabbles mean nothing if you lose in court!!!

I dont want to bet anything that Hyperion wins, so far they havent shown they understand the case. If they'd provided half as much data they would have been in twice as good a situation.

Quote:

How bout if you lose. You and Tigger go to MorphZone and stay there never to return to Amigaworld.net again

Since I've never been to MorphZone and dont have an account there, I'm going to decline that part of the bet. I do see alot of people on this board however who bet me AI was going to win the Thendic court case and seem to forget they werent correct on that handicapping.
-Tig

_________________
We played the first thing that came to our heads, it just happened to be the best song in the world.

We're doomed!


Just kidding... [edit] (for now)

Last edited by AmigAlex on 24-May-2007 at 05:34 AM.

_________________
AlexC's free OS4 software collection

AmigaOne XE/X1000/X5000/UAE-PPC OS4 laptop/X-10 Home Automation

Quote:

kgrach wrote: Now for the real issues. Listen now TIgger from someone who has done legal research for some of the best lawyers in the country. Don't #### off the judge. The fastest way to achieve that is to do what AI pulled. When you submit a document into evidence don't tamper with it. AI has really done themselves by submiting a fraudulent copy of the contract.

The didnt provide a fraudulant copy of any contract. Can you point to a fraudulant contract in the provided information.

Quote:

If you read ALL OF THE DOCUMENTS!! yes I know that requires some effort on your part. You will see that Hyperion has submited better and more complete evidence to the courts. Redacting of documents submitted into evidence is a big no no. AI lawyers could be in big trouble if it can be proven that they even knew that the information provided to the courts was false.

They provided a signed copy of the Nov 3, 2001 contract missing the last page, and they provided an unsigned copy of one of the initial Arctic contracts. They in fact asked that all signed contracts be provided by Hyperion, no judge is going to hold this against them, he is however going to use the complete contract and the signed Arctic contract for the case, however I still stand by the comment that Annex II does not help Hyperion, and the Arctic contract takes apart most of there case.

Quote:

Like it or not Tigger you can spout crude till it comes out your ears. Unless AI can submit some damn good reasons for their actions they are toast.

They already did in there very first request for info from Hyperion. We need all the signed contracts. They show that, they say we provided what we had available and its not going to prejudice the judge at all.
-Tig

_________________
We played the first thing that came to our heads, it just happened to be the best song in the world.

Jan 3rd 2002 contract between Hyperion and Freiden's (Annex I)...

Quote:

Required functionality for first release of AmigaOS 4.0: . *68k emulation - both interpreting and JIT emulation available .

And from the Hyperion website:


Quote:

Leuven, Belgium - 8th February, 2006 Hyperion Entertainment announces the immediate availability of the fourth update of the AmigaOS4.0 Developer Prerelease. The new features in this pre-release include: . * Petunia Just-In-Time 68k emulator. .

Although this was a contract between Hyperion and the Freidens and not Amiga Inc, how can Hyperion be so adamant that the initial developer pre-release was the 'first release' when it didn't meet their own requirements?

The only update which they didn't term pre-release was that of December 24, the 'final' update. Surely that is the release date of OS4 and therefore Amiga Inc DID meet the time-period terms of the buyback.

_________________
Currently planning to upgrade my Amstrad CPC

@umisef

Quote:

Also, they now claim that they "completed" OS4 in December 04, and that thus there could not be a buyback after June 05, anyway. And yet, they hang on to the money receipted for the buy-back clause. Odd, isn't it?

So add 18 Months to June 2005, the claimed timeframe that was claimed, a dispute existed, and you get to end of 2006. So this could be the event everything started, couldn't it?

Edit: Typo.
Edit2: Typo spotted by AmigAlex. ... but of course I was just testing, if anyone pays attention

Last edited by Sneaky on 24-May-2007 at 07:20 AM.
Last edited by Sneaky on 24-May-2007 at 06:11 AM.

The truth is out there

_________________

@Cool_amigaN

I want to believe.

@Tigger

Tigger wrote:
Quote:

They provided a signed copy of the Nov 3, 2001 contract missing the last page

From Fleecy's declaration in regard to Exhibit A, the copy of the agreement they submitted:

Quote:

I attach as Exhibit A to my Declaration a true and correct copy of the Agreement.

Apparently its not the true and correct copy.

For the Artic agreement, which Hyperion and the Friedens claim to never have seen, its exhibit G in Bill's declaration and he says:

Quote:

Attached hereto as Exhibits F and G, respectively, are examples of two such signed written agreements

The G exhibit is not signed. And by "example" are we to take the meaning to be something along the lines of: "well its sort of like this other one we had with them"?

Oh and by the way the unsigned section of Exhibit G lists the Friendens separately as "contractors", separate than the section that Hyperion would have signed. This seems to further contradict Fleecy's statements as do I believe the emails produced by the Friendens were Bill also seems to assert their separate rights to ExecSG.

Quote:

they say we provided what we had available

Where do they say that exactly?

Its also surprising that they would not have better protected their copies of the proper documents, both from a perspective of completeness and from the perspective of actually valid versions. Without those to refer back to when necessary you are running your business from memory whenever related issues arise.

Last edited by fairlanefastback on 24-May-2007 at 06:35 AM.
Last edited by fairlanefastback on 24-May-2007 at 06:30 AM.

_________________
Pegasos2 G3 running AOS 4.1 and MorphOS 2.0
Amikit user, tinkering with Icaros VM (AROS)
EFIKA owner
Amiga 1200

@umisef

Quote:

I doubt AI will go for this line of attack, but they *could* state that they have no knowledge of that last page, had never seen it in their life, and that it most definitely was not part of any copy of the contract they ever signed.

They cannot do that because that page is referenced from one of the pages they did include. But I pointed this out so many times yet you seem to ignore it. Since you continuously seem to ignore the facts and make up your theories based on assumptions, I'm sorry but I really can't take anything you say seriously.

@fairlanefastback

Quote:

Still he'd garner more open ears I would think not saying stuff like "the monkeys may be mad I call them that", where "the monkeys" are the Friedens.

No, the monkeys are the monkeys and the Friedens are the Friedens. Read it again..

Not that I agree with Tigger's characterization, I have not been involved in these issues as much as he was, so I simply cannot tell. The final result - OS4 - seems to be just fine. Maybe with "real programmers" experienced in OS design the job would have been done quicker and with less learning on-the-job. But AI could not afford this apparently, so maybe Tigger - did you have an alternative proposition at that time or was it just "not them"? Back in the days I personally was hoping for MorphOS to become OS4, as it seemed to be a good and quick solution. Unfortunately AI could not afford this either (I'm not implying that the MorphOS guys are necessarily all angels).

@COBRA

Quote:

So as far as they were concerned they could have agreed to make that demonstration software for any company, whether it was a successor of Amiga Washington or not.

Indeed, they make an agreement for porting OS4 to some platform (actually: who "allowed" them to do this?) and the receiver of the resulting object code then "owns" that object code (slightly confusing - "has a licence" may have been better). Whether or not the other company is KMOS doesn't matter so much does it...

Last edited by dirigent on 24-May-2007 at 07:10 AM.

@Sneaky

You need to edit another typo... end of 2006, not 2007.

From a public perspective, it seems safe to say that once the "when it's done" turned into "it's done!" it marked the first release of the OS as far as users were concerned. Legally and technologically speaking, the completion date could be anything the court will decide though.

@Those who think Hyperion's took too long to write OS4...

Something that hasn't been mentionned in the court case and thread so far is beta testers... Just for the sake of a broader perspective I'd like to mention that the delays in the first release and subsequent updates were due for a good part to our interferences...
Not only do we relentlessly look for bugs (and even more so when a public release is imminent), we also suggest enhancements when we feel that something could/should be done better. So it may cause delays, but it's well worth it as anyone using OS4 can attest.

So blame us, me, and Mario especially (sorry dude ) but don't blame Hyperion and the devs for trying to do better than just a good job.

_________________
AlexC's free OS4 software collection

AmigaOne XE/X1000/X5000/UAE-PPC OS4 laptop/X-10 Home Automation

@kgrach

Quote:

How much you wanna bet Hyperion wins the court case? All the postering and squabbles mean nothing if you lose in court!!!

What gives you the idea I expect or want either side to win the case? I really have no idea which side will win -- as I've said several times here I don't think any of us can know -- and actually I don't think it really matters much; seems to me in either case the real losers will be people who want to us the software.

Maybe you should relax and think things through a little better before you post. You aren't making any sense.

Quote:

How bout if you lose. You and Tigger go to MorphZone and stay there never to return to Amigaworld.net again

What in the world does Morphzone/Amigaworld have to do with anything? I haven't said anything about this court case that indicates any kind of NG Amiga/amiga-like platform preference. Point it out, if you think I have.

Geez what a waste of time and bandwidth.

-- gary_c

_________________
zukakakina.com - themes.tikiwiki.org

@Tigger who in post #520 said Quote:

OS 4.0 should not have taken 5 years to complete to the level it is now, implying that it should have is silly.

As always, you take things out of context, just so that you can draw anti-Hyperion conclusions:

Neither Hyperion, nor their contractors, have been working on OS4 full-time for 5 years. As I understand it, it has been a part-time project, so that they can do other work which pays the bills. That doesn't make the wait any less frustrating, but it is at least understandable (except to you it seems).

_________________

@kgrach

Quote:

Now for the real issues. Listen now TIgger from someone who has done legal research for some of the best lawyers in the country. Don't #### off the judge. The fastest way to achieve that is to do what AI pulled. When you submit a document into evidence don't tamper with it. AI has really done themselves by submiting a fraudulent copy of the contract. If you read ALL OF THE DOCUMENTS!! yes I know that requires some effort on your part. You will see that Hyperion has submited better and more complete evidence to the courts. Redacting of documents submitted into evidence is a big no no. AI lawyers could be in big trouble if it can be proven that they even knew that the information provided to the courts was false.

Hmm, I think you are talking with passion and not with logic.

On their opening move, Amiga Inc asked that Hyperion submit all signed contracts.

This would be rather silly if they were planing on falsifying their own contracts that would be proved to be false when the information they requested turned up.

Don't you agree?


Edit: Changed "facts" to "logic" as that's what I meant to write.

Last edited by SpaceDruid on 24-May-2007 at 08:36 AM.

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