@hatschi

Something else that comes to mind is the antagonizing relationship European courts seem to be having lately with American companies (eg the French iTunes thing, MS having to pay $1M/day fine, etc). I wouldn't put it past the Belgian court to insist everything be done in Danish just because it's an American company doing the sueing.

@tonyw
Quote:

by tonyw on 10-May-2007 8:47:45 Dunno about you guys, but if I were sued by a German or French company, even if I spoke the language fluently, I would have to have a professionally made, signed-as-a-true-record translation before I could answer the allegation. The risk of mis-interpreting a word or phrase made in the plaintiff's mother tongue is too great.

makes a lot of sense. I fully agree with you.

still, like jahc says, there must be something we don't know.
thinking a bit about it, the idea of AmigaInc really wanting OS4 to be a
success, backs more and more distant to me. Let's hope Hyperion has winning arguments.

@takemehomegrandma

Honestly, I don't know what planet you're on. The trick was pulled by Amiga Inc, making the motion for expedited discovery, ie rushing things. Plain stupid in a complex case of IP ownership and broken contracts. Trying that in an international lawsuit is cearly a sign of desperation.

Hyperion pulling the language card to deny the expedited discovery is motivated. You are entitled to use all legal means to further your cause, just like AI is entitled to try the expedited discovery.

Why are you so interested in defending Amiga Inc, with their history of broken contracts and lawsuits? Why not just see what happens and form your opinion accordingly?

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@takemehomegrandma

Quote:

it seems that something is rotten in the state of Denmark!

Makes you wonder about their american attorney. Can't tell a difference between Denmark and Belgium, not even bothering to look at the clients address...

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@Amigo1

There's something else it could be, although this would require ninja-like levels of cunning that I just don't think Amiga Inc have. Got your tinfoil hat on nice and tight? here goes...

So, we know from all the leaked paperwork that Amiga Inc have tried a few ways to make money in the past and failed miserably. The latest thing they seem to be trying is computers running OS4. Problem is, they have a bunch of ####ed off rich men ragging them to recoup their investments, and the only possible way they can do that in the short term is by milking their copyrights, the only thing of value they own. Problem is, the only licensee of their copyright is the company they're working with to make their latest attempt at making a profit work, and they already have an agreement that would make it very hard to get money out of them. So this is what they do: they strike a secret deal with their partner, and sue them in public for the copyrights. This lets the rich guys know they're working on getting their money. They then purposefully and completely botch the lawsuit. Their partner then makes a public statement saying justice was served, and all's forgiven. The rich guys don't get their short term cash because the lawsuit was lost, and the partnership gets the time break they need to get this latest project off the ground. Eventually the rich guys get their money back from sales of the OS4 machines and everyone gets to keep their kneecaps.

Crazy? yes, crazy like a fox!

@JackAttack

takemehomegrandma is not defending amiga inc; he's siding with the enemy of the enemy of his favorite OS, MorphOS.

Last edited by CodeSmith on 10-May-2007 at 07:54 AM.

@jahc

Quote:

jahc wrote: @takemehomegrandma Quote: In my eyes Amiga Inc's case couldn't be more concrete. What makes you think it isn't? "Making stuff up" such as, "the AmigaOneXE/SE is not really an AmigaOne"

Look at "1.01 Definitions", the very first thing to be defined:

"'Amiga One' means the PPC hardware product developed by Escena Gmbh for the Amiga One Partners, initially intented to operate in conjunction with an Amiga 1200"

There it is, in black on white.

If the "Amiga One Partners" went ahead on their own and dubbed *different* hardware than what was outlined in their contract as "Amiga One", then *who* is making things up?

@takemehomegrandma

Oh, come on. Why didn't they complain when Eyetech was selling all the rebadged MAI ATX boards? They must have with the mini-ITX ones, because those got a different name. Amiga Inc is trying, for some reason known only to them, to make it look like things happened differently than the way they did.

@JackAttack

Quote:

Honestly, I don't know what planet you're on. The trick was pulled by Amiga Inc, making the motion for expedited discovery, ie rushing things. Plain stupid in a complex case of IP ownership and broken contracts. Trying that in an international lawsuit is cearly a sign of desperation.

Right or not, I think Amiga Inc's stance is that this is not complex at all, and I really see no sign of desperation from *their* side, just a wish to save time and move ahead. While IANAL, I can't think of a more crystal clear case than this. I would be *very* surprised if Hyperion could manage to crawl out of this alive...

Quote:

Hyperion pulling the language card to deny the expedited discovery is motivated. You are entitled to use all legal means to further your cause, just like AI is entitled to try the expedited discovery.

Of course.

Quote:

Why are you so interested in defending Amiga Inc, with their history of broken contracts and lawsuits? Why not just see what happens and form your opinion accordingly?

I'm not defending Amiga Inc, it's just that I *simply can't* defend *Hyperion* in this, since all this is their fault, *only* Hyperion is to blame, and they have been so *incredibly stupid* to put themselves in this situation that words can't explain how stupid they have been!

@CodeSmith

Quote:

takemehomegrandma is not defending amiga inc; he's siding with the enemy of the enemy of his favorite OS, MorphOS.

You are bringing "OS War" into a discussion where there aren't any signs of it. Troll post, nothing more, nothing less.

@CodeSmith

Quote:

Oh, come on. Why didn't they complain when Eyetech was selling all the rebadged MAI ATX boards? They must have with the mini-ITX ones, because those got a different name. Amiga Inc is trying, for some reason known only to them, to make it look like things happened differently than the way they did.

I don't have to explain anything. Maybe they did complain, who knows? Not you, that's for sure. All I'm saying that they had a clear definition (an *agreement*) of what is "Amiga One" and the Teron board isn't included in that definition.

@takemehomegrandma

What? you're saying it's not true? interesting how you've been a critic of Amiga Inc for years, and when they sue Hyperion, you're suddenly on their side. Come on man, be honest.

@CodeSmith

Quote:

So this is what they do: they strike a secret deal with their partner, and sue them in public for the copyrights. This lets the rich guys know they're working on getting their money. They then purposefully and completely botch the lawsuit.

I like your theory! Particularly the "sales of the OS4 machines" bit..

@CodeSmith

Quote:

CodeSmith wrote: @takemehomegrandma What? you're saying it's not true? interesting how you've been a critic of Amiga Inc for years, and when they sue Hyperion, you're suddenly on their side. Come on man, be honest.

Eh eh because Hyperion is enemy numer 1

_________________
ikir

@dirigent

I like to come up with at least one crazy theory a week. It keeps the old brain juices flowing.

@takemehomegrandma

Here you go again!

The definition AmigaOne has in practise been established and recognised by Amiga Inc, through their own website and in several fora, for all models save MicroA1, which is another story. This recognition in practise has legal value. If AI had a problem with the definition of AmigaOne they should have taken action then, now they would need extraordinarily good reasons explaining why they did not if they want to make this argument relevant.

Bringing that old superceeded contract into the lawsuit could be percieved as "making stuff up", as it simply and obviously is not true and just a rather easily refutable trick to confuse the court. Small wonder AI is going for a jury trial. Their whole case is built on distortions, if not direct lies.

_________________
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@JackAttack

Quote:

The definition AmigaOne has in practise been established and recognised by Amiga Inc, through their own website and in several fora, for all models save MicroA1, which is another story. This recognition in practise has legal value.

This recognition in practice may be one of Hyperion's strongest points in the whole case in general I guess..

Edit: Well forget about my post. My point was already made clear before

@CodeSmith

Quote:

antagonizing relationship European courts seem to be having lately with American companies

Don't mix things up. At least the Microsoft thing is a fine of the European Commissions Fair Traid Office (don't know the correct Naming though, but I hope you get it) and therefore dealings of the european government.
Could it be, that the iTunes matter you reffer is with the British iTunes because of unfair pricing instead of the french division?

Quote:

I wouldn't put it past the Belgian court to insist everything be done in Danish just because it's an American company doing the sueing.

Aehm. done in "DUTCH" as the languages spoken in Belgium are french, german and dutch, not danish.

What would you, american I guess, think of beeing sued by me, for example, in Germany and you get the information in German? Even if you speak some german or know a friend who does, german "law-talk" is a language of its own, so to say, and words often mean very specific things instead of a broarder meaning in "normal" german.
While reading the leaked documents I saw that its quite the same in english.

So I can assure you, the principle of giving someone in court the chance to understand what is said or written is an absolute MUST in international cases.

Last edited by Sneaky on 10-May-2007 at 08:21 AM.

@Sneaky

Oops, got the language wrong. In my defense, I'll say that I'm a bit hungry right now

I am not American, but I work in an American software company that deals with customers in Europe and hang out with software guys from other companies. We all feel a distinct "vibe" coming out of Europe that American software is not as welcome as it used to be. Maybe it's a side effect of the current leadership... [disclaimer: this is a touchy subject, so I'm not going to comment on our esteemed head of state. I'll just say that our sales guys tell us that most Europeans they deal with don't have a very high opionion of Americans]

You're right of course that in something that is as to-the-letter as legal documents you'd want as little room for error as possible. Human language is not a very exact thing.

Last edited by CodeSmith on 10-May-2007 at 08:35 AM.
Last edited by CodeSmith on 10-May-2007 at 08:31 AM.

@Sneaky



where in Franconia/Bavaria? :)