Hey all,
Again, I'm still amazed at the passion you all are putting into this. I have a question that I either missed somewhere or no one seemed to ask yet.

How can Amiga Inc claim that they are not affiliated or linked in any way to the Amiga of the past, to include their debts, and still claim that they are they rightful owners of Amiga OS?

Doesn't that seem kind of contradictory to you? You can't pick and choose what you want to keep and discard in business. You can't say, - I own the OS, but we're not responsible for the past debts to make it happen, it's just ours. LOL. Btw, the last entry I read was for 22 May 07 for the court documents. Anyone know where it goes from here?

Thanks.

Ed

_________________
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@Tigger

Pretty strange, Hyperion never did a DOOM port, there was plenty of other stuff going on like Heretic II, Freespace and Shogo and other projects.

And even stranger, the only one from Europe that visited USA shows was Ben, so if you saw one of the Friedens there you must have been hallucinating.

Lastly, what is your real name ? I am sure you have nothing to hide ?

@Spectre660

Quote:

Spectre660 wrote: @Tomppeli It means that Amiga Inc could not deliver all source code and documentation to Hyperion as agreed in the contract. this would be the first breach of the terms of the contract. and it would have been on the part of Amiga INC. Hyperions laywer tries to bring this up by the Olaf Barthel references to the OS 3.1 source codes and unpaid fees to him.

Irrelevant. If Hyperion consider Amiga to be in material breach, Hyperion may cancel the contract and thats what Amiga wants anyway.

@SimplePPC

Quote:

Lastly, what is your real name ?

Click 'Profile' under one of his comments.

@Cool_amigaN

Quote:

This is a typical routine for companies all over the world to avoid big debts and in most of the EU countries and the US it’s almost 100% legal.

IANAL either but I guess this is 100% legal IF and only IF you use the sell revenue to pay your debts, no ? Else this is too easy (and illegal)

And the other big question where the sell revenue had gone if it was not to pay (until a certain point, might not be in full) debts ?
Hum, hum to the shareholder ? but hey wait a minute shareholder of AI(W) is Kouri, which is exactly the same as the one that is acquiring the asset... Ok, so this is simple in order to cancel debts from your company A, you create company B which buy all assets from company A (BTW it's easy you are doing a check from your account 1 to your account 2) and that's all, you close company A. I don't know US laws but this being legal is a little dubious to me, it really look like a fraudulent try to avoid paying debts, especially when company A and B share the (almost) same employees and same shareholders... And better of all the same name, doing the same business, just relocated in another state (except for anything legal where you should deal at the almost very same place that company A was operating) !!

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@CodeSmith

Quote:

CodeSmith wrote: @Plaz I think there will definitely be a second round, regardless of who wins. As I mentioned in another thread, I strongly believe that Hyperion is fighting for its very existence here. They have spent over a million on OS4, incurring goodness knows what debt in the process, and Amiga Inc is trying to deny them the biggest selling point, the Amiga name.

Ummm. No.
They *promised* the friedens payment of 30k¤ per month (unlimited time). That may well add up to 1.000.000¤ but Hyperion didnt pay that amount, if they did, Hyperion would own the source code.

Hyperion is/was to pay for each copy sold 10¤ to the friedens, that means they expected to sell at least 100.000 copies of os4?

@CodeSmith

Ben was a registered user and even when he wasn't, his IP and style was consistent. I seem to remember that someone impersonated him at some point and everyone spotted it instantly.

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@abalaban

As I mentioned before in this thread, Itec was also the Senior (first place) Secured Creditor of Amiga Inc.

Any transfer from Amiga (old) to Itec would be considered paying debts.

What we need the judge to determine is ...
... if the "bankruptcy/insolvency" is legal.
... and if it is, if Amiga was insolvent prior April 2003.

@SimplePPC

Pretty strange, Hyperion never did a DOOM port, there was plenty of other stuff going on like Heretic II, Freespace and Shogo and other projects

Hm.. Not what Tigger said now was it ?

Quote:

Hyperion was showing a game port Doom I believe

Not sure where Tigger said the Friedens went to an US show tho..

Lastly, what is your real name ? I am sure you have nothing to hide ?

As said, Tiggers real name is in his profile, Bill Evans, his name has been mentioned before, and his credentials comfirmed by for instance DiscreetFX.

Now, before you ask somebody to reveal his ID, I think it would be fair you tell Tigger who you are as well then.

_________________
~
Everything you say will be misquoted and used against you..
~

@CodeSmith

Quote:

CodeSmith wrote: @Sneaky I think Tigger's argument is that it doesn't matter what Bill McEwen said about his money problems, the only thing that really counts is that Amiga WA was never actually "legally insolvent". Which, if true, confuses the hell out of me. It seems like a "get out of debt free" card - don't pay, claim to have no money, create another company, sell everything to them, shut down the first company. Bingo, no need to pay the bills. It may be legal, but boy does it sound wrong to me.

I am not a lawyer but..... I own several rentals. I have people move out after doing damages in excess of their damage deposit or don't pay all of the rent. We go to court and I am awarded a judgement. I have yet to collect on one of them. People just don't pay the. I also have contractors I have had to sue. I have several unpaid judgements from them. I would rather have a bad check from them as I can actually have them jailed and fined for that. Don't know if this applies esp. with the international flavor to all this but maybe we should bring back a debtors prison

@abalaban

first, IANAL!

In Sweden "insolvency" means that a company is not able to pay it´s debts and the situtation has to be non-temporary. Bankrupcy occurs when either the company itself or someone they owe money to file for bankrupcy.

I am not sure about this but if you buy a company you buy its assets but also its debts (at least it very reasonable). That would mean its up to Amiga(2) to pay.

Was then Amiga(1) really insolvent? Well, the Swedish system is a bit vague. I can´t add more to this than already has been said in this thread. However on a personal note, I think its a bit unfair of Hyperion to aim for insolvency in this situation. It just gives the impression that they were hoping for this to happen and not really interested in the contract itself.

@abalaban

You have hit the nail on the head. Alot of people were critical of AInc during the "shell game " era and were called trolls. Now the people have switched sides. Very entertaining and amusing and someone maybe collecting some money...Bolton.
Pass the popcorn please.


Now that I think about it, people have switched on alot of issues:
How important is the Amiga name? The office rent scandle and susequent auction. How much "original source" is in OS4. When OS4 was released. The fake contract. What a great guy BM is and how evil is BB. was/is the "shell game" really a shell game? Amiga is a great company that cares about the desktop owners. ect...

Last edited by stew on 25-May-2007 at 10:31 AM.

Yeah and all those years of " MOS is illegal", now it turns out OS4 is the illegal one

@ChrisH

Fleecy must not have cared as he is the one that put the stories out, unless you think Tigger is not telling the truth. The story about fleecy and his poor judgement in this case seem to be true as it has been corraborated by several in attendance.
Some asked about the incedence (of "code monkey" talk) and he relayed it in detail. This is usually done by someone telling the truth or a gifted liar. The details are telling. Just because someone has a different opinion does not make them a troll.

Quote:

glittering wrote: Yeah and all those years of " MOS is illegal", now it turns out OS4 is the illegal one

Nonsense.
The only question is whether Hyperion must transfer possession and interest to Amiga.
The owner is Amiga (see 2.06 and definition of software).

@stew

Question is there's no reason to be disrespectful, there's absolutely no need to call anyone names completely out of context and with the intention of being offensive, even if you don't agree with the point of view or their way of doing things.

@yabba

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aerbDg7HfA0



Saluditos,

Ferrán.

_________________
Amiga user since 1988
AOS4 Betatester
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A1 Cfg
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A1200

BTW, here's a thought I had before heading to bed last night. What if Mr. Peck had called for a bankruptcy hearing back when he was sueing for his wages? I don't know if it was within his power to do that, but it may have changed the Amigaland we know today.

Plaz

@Sneaky

Quote:

So in fact it seems the other way around, in USA insolvency and bankrupcy are the same, as both have to be declared by a court somehow.

actually no they are not the same
what is insolvency?

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@tonyw

Quote:

Yes, but remember that what we have seen so far is only an argument against AI's request for an injunction

I agree, there are still many peices of this puzzle yet to be played. No doubt I am just following along and talking out of my hat and I'm sure the lawyers on both sides have plenty of ammo left.

But I can hear the judge looking at all this and saying "And exactly why are we here today?"

Seems the defence of the license is first on the list to me, but perhaps that's just a decoy.

Plaz

Last edited by Plaz on 25-May-2007 at 02:46 PM.

@jkirk

Quote:

From the link jkirk posted: Both insolvency and bankruptcy deal with liabilities exceeding assets, but insolvency is a state of being and bankruptcy is a matter of law.

Well that's what I said in the first place.

What are you argueing about, tigger!