@stew

its becoming a lie fest. both sides ?

_________________
Sam460ex : Radeon Rx550 Single slot Video Card : SIL3112 SATA card

@Spectre660

What did you expect from lawyers, the truth? :P

_________________
Sammy Nordström, A.K.A. "Samface"

MINDRELEASE.net - The Non-Commercial Network of Digital Arts.

Samworks D & C - Professional Web Development (in Swedish)

@samface

no but the declarations are made under the penalty of perjury........
how about McEwans lawyer joke ?

Last edited by Spectre660 on 27-May-2007 at 01:33 AM.

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Sam460ex : Radeon Rx550 Single slot Video Card : SIL3112 SATA card

@tigger

Mcewan's latest says "after Amiga became ITEC". a Mistake on his part ? or more shell games ? or is pressure begining to tell ?

http://www.merlancia.us/amiga-hyperion/35decmcewenoppinjunctionshow_case_doc.pdf

page 5

Last edited by Spectre660 on 27-May-2007 at 01:40 AM.
Last edited by Spectre660 on 27-May-2007 at 01:39 AM.
Last edited by Spectre660 on 27-May-2007 at 01:39 AM.
Last edited by Spectre660 on 27-May-2007 at 01:38 AM.

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Sam460ex : Radeon Rx550 Single slot Video Card : SIL3112 SATA card

@Spectre660

You're no liar until you get caught. All the penalty of perjury does is make anything said in a court of law true until proven otherwise. That's no joke, it's how the system actually works.

_________________
Sammy Nordström, A.K.A. "Samface"

MINDRELEASE.net - The Non-Commercial Network of Digital Arts.

Samworks D & C - Professional Web Development (in Swedish)

@samface

The whole OS 4.0 deal is begining to look like a mob deal gone wrong....

With OS 4.0 running on the mac mini there will be some bodies in the river....

Last edited by Spectre660 on 27-May-2007 at 02:38 AM.

_________________
Sam460ex : Radeon Rx550 Single slot Video Card : SIL3112 SATA card

@Spectre660

I second that. The original intent of the contract is easy to see that it was NOT meant to simply give away any rights in which case the contract would have been much easier to formulate. Clearly, Amiga Inc. wanted to retain their rights as well as be able to buy the rights to whatever source code produced by Hyperion and their contractors under this license agreement. For some reason, Hyperion are obviously not willing to honor the original intent of the contract by denying this to Amiga Inc. using any possible legal ambiguity in the contract. Wether Hyperion will succeed or not remains to be seen, in any case, I doubt Hyperion will be doing any AmigaOS versions beyond AmigaOS4.0. That's the sad conclusion of all this.

_________________
Sammy Nordström, A.K.A. "Samface"

MINDRELEASE.net - The Non-Commercial Network of Digital Arts.

Samworks D & C - Professional Web Development (in Swedish)

@samface

it seems to me that Amiga Inc are hurting themselves with their own evidence though.
pay 2 million for what you claim you bought already for 25,000 ?

Last edited by Spectre660 on 27-May-2007 at 03:27 AM.

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Sam460ex : Radeon Rx550 Single slot Video Card : SIL3112 SATA card

@Spectre660

Nah, that just seems more like another offer to settle outside of court rather than an offer to buy what they already paid for. I don't think that will have any negative affect on their case, on the contrary.

_________________
Sammy Nordström, A.K.A. "Samface"

MINDRELEASE.net - The Non-Commercial Network of Digital Arts.

Samworks D & C - Professional Web Development (in Swedish)

@Tigger

Quote:

I'm not sure I'd want to work with someone who doesn't understand that BCPL is the ancestor of C, because Kernigan and Ritchie surely do.

So, if I put an ad in the paper for an Italian speaker because I want a translator, should I accept someone who doesn't speak Italian but does speak Latin, because Latin is the ancestor of Italian?

Remember we're not discussing language semantics here, we're discussing how much work is involved in taking a bunch of apparently poorly structrured and poorly commented BCPL code and porting it to C. This is not a once-off Perl script, so this code needs to be maintainable. A machine translator (none of which will comment code and most of which will regenerate variable names into unreadable goop like CHARP_2234) is not going to cut it - especially if a critical component is crashing two days before release and all you have to work with is a twenty thousand line source file with unreadable names. So, back to my comment about the no-hire: if the person being interviewed told me to grab some code translator off sourceforge and go with that, I would know right away that this person is either lying about being an experienced programmer or has never seen machine generated source code in his life but recommended its use anyway. Not someone I want on my programming team, regardless of how deep his knowledge of computer history is.

@Thread

Well the latest batch of documents are posted from Amiga Inc. The are a lenghty and interesting read. I guess the docs were offered to the court on Friday and it just took a day to get them posted.

Quote:

Hyperion boldly stakes it's new, sweeping license claim on two meritless grounds. First, Hyperion claims that it obtained an exclusive, unlimited and perpetual trademark license from Amiga more than three years ago when Amiga allegedly became bankrupt or legally insolvent - despite the facts that Hyperion offers no competent evidence of either and that the course of the parties' pre-litigation conduct proves otherwise.

Well we in this thread can't say we didn't see that one coming eh?

Plaz

OMG, the Itec --> KMOS contract really made me laugh!

I mean, I absolutely do NOT question whether it's legal or not, but hey, it is somewhat fun to see Mr. Kouri triple-sign it as both Managing partner of Itec LLC and Monrepos LLC, and President of KMOS Inc., too!

Last edited by Turrican3 on 27-May-2007 at 09:14 AM.
Last edited by Turrican3 on 27-May-2007 at 09:13 AM.

@Turrican3

what I am waiting for is documentation relating to Amiga Washington,Itec LLC and the Asset transfer.

_________________
Sam460ex : Radeon Rx550 Single slot Video Card : SIL3112 SATA card

Quote:

CodeSmith wrote: So, if I put an ad in the paper for an Italian speaker because I want a translator, should I accept someone who doesn't speak Italian but does speak Latin, because Latin is the ancestor of Italian?

No, but of course since everyone on here who answered you believed you were talking about the history of the language not my other point, you'll have to agree what you wanted wasnt clear and maybe you did ask for someone who could read latin.

Quote:

Remember we're not discussing language semantics here, we're discussing how much work is involved in taking a bunch of apparently poorly structrured and poorly commented BCPL code and porting it to C.

First of all, given the new documents, the chances that the BCPL code still existed in the operating system is pretty small, since apparently one of Olafs goals was to get rid of the need for the Sun workstation to rebuild AmigaOS. (Joanna may remember better then I, but I am pretty sure that the BCPL code was compiled there).

Quote:

This is not a once-off Perl script, so this code needs to be maintainable. A machine translator (none of which will comment code and most of which will regenerate variable names into unreadable goop like CHARP_2234) is not going to cut it - especially if a critical component is crashing two days before release and all you have to work with is a twenty thousand line source file with unreadable names.

First of all there is nowhere near 20K lines of BCPL in AmigaOS. Secondly, Boeing still claims (though I still am not totally convinced) that they saved a significant amount of money during there conversion from Jovial to ADA for a number of systems by running computer based conversion on the original source and then paying ADA programmers to clean up the resulting code. In addition, there is nothing that forces a machine generator to remove comments and it should have to generate very few (if any) variable names, all of which can be cleaned up by a programmer following up the process.

Quote:

So, back to my comment about the no-hire: if the person being interviewed told me to grab some code translator off sourceforge and go with that, I would know right away that this person is either lying about being an experienced programmer or has never seen machine generated source code in his life but recommended its use anyway.

First of all, I'm not advocating using it, but it is an alternative, and one that companies much larger then yours and mine actually advocate for conversion from old languages to new languages. I know BCPL and have converted code from it to C before for our customers (Speckled Trout used to be full of BCPL code and other more exotic languages). In addition, since very little of the OS used to be BCPL, and in all likelyhood none of it was when the Friedens got it, its probably silly to continue to talk about what amount of effort it was going to take to convert it to C.
-Tig

_________________
We played the first thing that came to our heads, it just happened to be the best song in the world.

@Spectre660

Quote:

Spectre660 wrote: @samface it seems to me that Amiga Inc are hurting themselves with their own evidence though. pay 2 million for what you claim you bought already for 25,000 ?

Thats appears to be about what Hyperion owes to the programmers (plus some more money for Hyperion) to get code ownership which would then flow to AI. I think with the latest data, the AI arent interested in OS 4.0 crowd should get quieter and I actually may be interested in the palmtop at the price they are talking about running OS 4.0. Also we now have receipts for the "missing" $2500 and apparently Hyperion agreed that AI had paid the amount in full. I now think AI really needs OS 4.0 for there current plans, which is probably good for the community (and for those owed money by Hyperion) and bad for Carlton and company.
-Tig

_________________
We played the first thing that came to our heads, it just happened to be the best song in the world.

@Spectre660

Quote:

Spectre660 wrote: @samface The whole OS 4.0 deal is begining to look like a mob deal gone wrong.... With OS 4.0 running on the mac mini there will be some bodies in the river....

Thats impossible, Friedens told us so lots and lots of times. Of course in all honesty, I didnt believe them any of those times and said as much.
-Tig

_________________
We played the first thing that came to our heads, it just happened to be the best song in the world.

@Tigger

There is no doubt that os 4 has some value .

_________________
Sam460ex : Radeon Rx550 Single slot Video Card : SIL3112 SATA card

@Spectre660

I think it has become apparent that OS4 is worth a lot of money. AI are pinning their future on it and it has become clear that this is the reason money has been invested in their business (in the recent past).

It is now getting hard for Hyperion to deny that AI didn't execute the buyback option, and that AI haven't already tried to make reasonable attempts to settle this out of court. Reading through some of the Hyperion documents is laughable, the Frieden's docs are littered with opinions and hearsay.

I'm not really in support of either of the companies, but i must say AI appear to have a strong case behind them. The more docs that fly between the two, the stronger it just appears to get. It must help that AI know the law inside out now through all their various dealings (although it doesn't mean they follow it). Maybe it is their time to win a case.

The only thing that troubles me with AI's case is the transfer to Itec, then KMOS. Yes, they appear to be legal, but i can't help thinking about their unpaid bills etc....having said that, Hyperion appear to have been fine about the transfers of ownership (until now) so i don't think they can rely on pushing the defunt point.

Last edited by chiriz.net on 27-May-2007 at 12:39 PM.

@chiriz.net

This is the problem. Both companies deviated from the contract apparently with the consent of each other now they want to use the contract provisions as signed to beat each other about the head with. They can't have it both ways.

case in point :
Fleecy on the OS 3.1,3.5 and 3.9 Sources claims that Hyperion knew that they would not come from Amiga Washington. then he goes on to declare that OS 4.0
is a port of 3.1 .

That not what the Agreement spells out.

Last edited by Spectre660 on 27-May-2007 at 01:04 PM.
Last edited by Spectre660 on 27-May-2007 at 01:04 PM.

_________________
Sam460ex : Radeon Rx550 Single slot Video Card : SIL3112 SATA card

@Spectre660

The only thing that all the documentation proves is that both companies are v. sloppy with paperwork. The original agreement should have been replaced numerous times with uptodate versions. As this isn't the case one assumes (as the court will probably point out) that since objections were not raised, (triggering a re-write of the agreement) that both companies understood the situations and continued working in good faith. Really a re-write was in order when Itec purchased the agreement etc. Since the buy-back clause had been activated, this should have been replaced with a statement saying such and various other amendments should have been made. I think it is wrong for Hyperions legal team to now claim that this was left in as the buyback wasn't executed. They are simply pointing out the flawed documentation, but that doesn't mean they have a case.

I have worked before when there has been flawed wording in my contract, a clause that meant i could be called to work any time day or night, but it was understood in the company to mean that i had to be given appropriate notice and had the right to say no.

I think anyone looking at this mess from an impartial stance would have to see that the agreement is a license agreement more than anything and therefore is a mere base to build from (even though it wasn't intended that way). I agree that Hyperion should be paid more money, but i don't think that has any relation as to who owns the IP (AI & the developers as the buyback option appears to have been executed in accordance with the agreement).

I find it hard to see many avenues for Hyperion in this case, unless they have some smoking gun that they haven't shown yet, but that looks less and less likely as time goes on.

Last edited by chiriz.net on 27-May-2007 at 01:51 PM.