@Kronos

Quote:

Kronos wrote: @samface To be more precise, having OS4 sold shrink-wrapped and with a well documented HAL-API does NOT mean: - that HW-vendors can't ask Hyperion to adapt OS to their HW - that OEM deals can't be struck

No, of course not. And neither did I claim otherwise.

Quote:

On the other side it would have made taking the OS hostage over the licence-issue (like it's obviously been done for the past 3 years) impossible.

I'm quite positive that this was not the intention for any of the involved parties when the license agreement was signed.

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@all

So, no one with a PACER account present?

Shouldn't the Judge have ruled something, yesterday? Even a postponement has to be filed, hasn't it?

Could someone please announce something, the effects of the last ones seem to wear off

@samface

Quote:

Oh yeah, you still believe they would've been more successful if they had ignored those wanting to make AmigaOS4 dedicated hardware and simply released the AmigaOS4 as a standalone OS, developed for some kind of generic PPC hardware standard that doesn't exist and hope that compatible hardware would somehow appear on it's own... What they need is strategical partnerships, like they had with Eyetech, like they have today with ACK and like they would also want with ACube. In other words, they need a hardware licensing scheme.

Right. Because MANY more people want to have the 'support' we've had with the A1s, the over-pricing, and availability, versus a pool of proven reliable hardware, even if used.

The hardware scheme at the price to manufacture we get locked in to by small runs, versus still available PPC Macs, or the PS3, is a bad joke. Expanding the number of users beyond a certain point, it needs to be _easy_ and _inexpensive_...which allowing OS4 to run on existing hardware, hardware people either already own or can get cheaply, would do. It doesn't need to be the end goal, but I'd certainly bet you the # of sales were OS4 available for Mac Mini (PPC) and PS3 would far exceed those of the A1s.

Sorry, I think it's those constantly expecting 'custom hardware,' where the only things 'custom' are the fact it doesn't have an x86 CPU in it, and it's overpriced and unavailable, are the ones that seem to ignore reality.

I like the SAM, but for the expected pricing, I'd sooner buy a Mac Mini, likewise for ACKs supposed low-end. I also believe the hw licensing scheme is a way for AInc to 'double-dip' on royalties/$, especially with some knowledge of their (past anyways) 'license fees.' Make $ for the sale of the OS, then more (unrealistic) off of hardware they've had nothing to do with..

Last edited by wegster on 01-Jun-2007 at 01:31 PM.

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@samface

Quote:

BTW, what's Terrasoft's plan when their users grow tired of the old PPC macs, beg Apple to go back to PPC?

Why not check facts yourself before making incorrection conclusions?

Currently YDL is being produced for the PS3, and was the first linux distro to do so, AFAIK:
http://www.terrasoftsolutions.com/products/ydl/

And I'd expect them to have passed the 1-2k users we have on A1s/OS4.

_________________
Are we not done with the same silly arguments and flames yet??!

@wegster

I have a silly question. Maybe this is just not so obvious to me, but why would you want a computer OS running on your PS3? I have computers to run computer OS's and programs, why run one on a console? What's the benefit? Only to replace the need for a computer if you don't have one at all? Or is there more? Like I said, whatever the reason, it's not so obvious to me.

I also wondered if anyone had a real update to the trial so far? Thanks all.

ED

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@samface

"intention" is pointless, the OS HAS been taken hostage over the licence-issue, and the logical conclusion is that the current mess is another strong point to the allready long list of arguments AGAINST the compulsory-bundling-licence-scheme.

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@edponpon

Quote:

I also wondered if anyone had a real update to the trial so far? Thanks all.

Well in this Thread "The_Editor" posted

this Link to a IRC-Log over at amigans.net

from today with some news. But it's not confirmed, yet.

@samface

Quote:

samface wrote: @fairlanefastback What I said was that it was, and still is, no viable business plan to market a commercial OS for a third party hardware platform that is no longer manufactured. To survive such business strategy would be just pure luck and sure to fail in the long run. BTW, what's Terrasoft's plan when their users grow tired of the old PPC macs, beg Apple to go back to PPC?

No, as I read it you were attacking Seehund's opinion since the inception of his opinion through until now. And you bolstered it with facts that only occured relatively recently when Seehund actually first developed his opinion many years prior.

PPC Macs were in production at the time, no one even dreamed of an Intel move all those years ago.

Terrasoft is a business and the PPC Mac market has feed them well enough since 1999. Again they were currently available at the time in mass quantities.

Terrasoft's next move these days is all over their website, the PS3 is a readily available platform that they market for, not just for individuals, but as clusters.

Back to the commercial OS part, if Amiga's plan is so great, why do they have sub-2000 users of the OS since 2001?

Apple dosen't release needed tech specs supposedly yet Terrasoft can write a PPC based OS for it. What OS it is dosen't matter, the claim is that Apple dosen't cooperate enough for it to be done, yet there is another OS available, that works well on the platform.

Apple wisely writes OSX for PPC and for Intel not long into starting the project. Now thats a business plan.

Terrasoft is a niche market company, they run on new readily available and used readily available hardware, again a better business plan it seems, at least it whats tangibly out there and available to people. No vaporware here.

Last edited by fairlanefastback on 01-Jun-2007 at 01:46 PM.

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@edponpon

Quote:

edponpon wrote: @wegster I have a silly question. Maybe this is just not so obvious to me, but why would you want a computer OS running on your PS3? I have computers to run computer OS's and programs, why run one on a console? What's the benefit? Only to replace the need for a computer if you don't have one at all? Or is there more? Like I said, whatever the reason, it's not so obvious to me.

Since the Amiga OS (4.0) is now a hobby market with so few users the name of the game is to get it to be able to reliably run, cheaply on something already out there, that is preferablly, 1) not too expensive and 2) can do something else besides run your hobby OS product.

PS3 is a great platform because someone can make the small investment in a copy of OS 4.0 and if they don't like it they still have a working modern game system.

PS3 is good for developers because they only need to worry about addressing one platform that people can't change cards out on etc.

This option is not about power users, it about exposure to a broader audience to expand the hobby and re-invigorate people who liked Amiga when they were more than just a hobby activity.

And Yellow Dog Linux is a good illustration that the talk about Apple and Sony not being workable with to port your OS to their hardware on its face is not true. It may not be easy, we don't know, but its sure as hell possible.

Last edited by fairlanefastback on 01-Jun-2007 at 01:54 PM.

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Amikit user, tinkering with Icaros VM (AROS)
EFIKA owner
Amiga 1200

@edponpon

Quote:

I have a silly question. Maybe this is just not so obvious to me, but why would you want a computer OS running on your PS3? I have computers to run computer OS's and programs, why run one on a console? What's the benefit? Only to replace the need for a computer if you don't have one at all? Or is there more? Like I said, whatever the reason, it's not so obvious to me.

In this market, I'd say two words:
- price, performance for the $
- availability

I don't think the PS3 is the 'ideal endgame' for OS4 hardware, mainly due to the limited RAM, but it's certainly better than anything we've seen to date, plus, re-read the two reasons above..

Sorry, no trial updates...I haven't seen any new docs, but made it through the 35 or so..and yeah, the mini/PS3/hardware issues are going OT, mine included.

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Are we not done with the same silly arguments and flames yet??!

@wegster

Ok, that seems to be a decent reason. I think that'd be killer if the Amiga OS 4 came out with a way to be on your PS3. Then I could watch my Blu-ray movies, play super HD games AND have a super powered Amiga all at the same time !

Ed

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@wegster

I find that 256MB of RAM is more than enough for OS4, even when using apps like GIMP, AbiWord, etc. (and I usually have 3-5 apps all on seperate screens open at once). When the pager is out it'll be even less of an issue.

The irc log is

here. Don't know how valid the info is.

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MindSpace: MindMaps and UML diagrams for OS4

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@yoodoo2

hahaha!... hilarious irc log!!

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@yoodoo2

Interesting IRC log. It's a pity that we can't force them to go into arbitration, give the Moana project a license and get them to start selling the darn OS to users.

Hans

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@d0c

It's enough to keep us going until the official court transcript PDFs show up in a few days. Since it's told by one of the people involved in the case it's not 100% reliable, but I suspect the stuff that's clearly not opinions will show up in the official PDFs as well. That the judge is going to need a couple of days to mull the facts over means that it's not as cut'n'dried as some here have tried to argue; clearly both sides have a case.

@CodeSmith

Or maybe bothe sides DON'T have a case

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@Hans

Personally, I'm a bit disappointed that the Moana project is justing shoving OS4 onto a MAc.

I was hoping that it was an AMCC board with a bigger processor, rather than 2nd hand hardware that is several years old.

Still think that OS4 needs to be a £50 add-on bundle for any of the new consoles (with a keyboard/mouse/flash card thrown in).

_________________
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@yoodoo2

Yes...interesting read....certainly sounds like AIncs case is not too strong considering they've presented improper, back-dated and incomplete documents to the courts. US courts don't like being manipulated...especially when it is an obvious attempt at manipulation.

Scott

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@Kronos

Quote:

Or maybe bothe sides DON'T have a case

Closer to the truth IMHO. Will we find out the IP was never properly transfered from a now defunct company.... AmigaOS abandonware?? Nah, the Hyperion clause for ownership would probably kick in, but then Amiga Inc (W) would continue to contest and here we are 6 months from now watching this thread reach 3000 post.

Please Amiga Inc and Hyperion.... come to some agreement and get real professionals to do your contracts next time.

Plaz