@billt

Quote:

billt wrote: @stew Quote: So we were lied to. Not really all that suprising. By whom? I never saw Acube deny they were working on porting OS4 to MacMini. Looks like Hyperion were not involved with this porting. They said that it could be done, but they they would not do it, and why.

Ok maybe I am dense and just don't understand but..
Neither Hyperion or ACube get a license for the port.
The Freidens say they will never do a poet without a license.
OH wait I get it now you seperate ExecSG out from OS4. I am not sure that is allowed. The Friedens could port it to the Mac and not be helping port OS4?

Edit to add: They worked with ACube on the port of ExecSG after knowing full well the troubles and that the buyback was exersized. Many here tried to downplay the troubles between the two parties, and tend to have less credibility with me, in fact in hindsight it looked like they tried to hide the truth. More conspiracies?

Last edited by stew on 28-May-2007 at 02:20 AM.

@Tomas

Quote:

I myself saw it with my own eyes that McEwen claimed that they were having some good progress on getting OS4 running on imacs and that this effort would soon mean the end to the hardware drought.

Too bad neither was AInc working on it nor funding the effort. They just got to know about it through ACube (as the court papers show).

@billt

Quote:

Quote: In fact, this started billt's initiative/challenge to get as much documentation as possible about the Macs - an initiative that AFAIK did not get much response from whiners. As far as I know, I posted everything except for one comment to the Amiga Mac wiki site. That one comment from someone else was off-topic about PS3 stuff, and had nothing to do with Mac hardware.

Just for clearness' sake, I did not mean to suggest you did not do a good job - honestly, I think it's quite the contrary, instead. I followed only the initial stages - i.e. the proposal you made here and the following discussion that ensued - and, noticing he lack of positive responses, I soon lost interest, thus missing what you gathered on the wiki site
However, I'd be curious to have a look it now... so could you please give me the URL?

Quote:

ACK mentioned a bit ago in one of the irc logs or something I saw here that there was something trying to be done with a particular Mac Mini motherboard, is this that project?

I haven't read this piece of information from ACK, but I'd say there is no connection whatsoever between ACK and ACube and their projects.

Quote:

Man, I wish this had happened.

Same here!

Quote:

I also wish we could hear about some secret ibook project in all this... :p

Frankly, all the projects that came to surface lately seem already too many to me - I mean, their number and "size", in the Amigaland context, somehow makes them look not much credible. Of course, I hope that all of them were true and that at least some of them will see the light, someday.

saimo

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@stew

Quote:

Ok maybe I am dense and just don't understand but.. Neither Hyperion or ACube get a license for the port. The Freidens say they will never do a poet without a license. OH wait I get it now you seperate ExecSG out from OS4. I am not sure that is allowed. The Friedens could port it to the Mac and not be helping port OS4?

billt's answer was very clear and to the point, no need to fantasize. Moreover, you had already had a number of just as clear answers:
answer #1
answer #2
answer #3
answer #4
so, please, stop stirring the pot.

saimo

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@stew

Quote:

Ok maybe I am dense and just don't understand but..

Possibly.

Quote:

Neither Hyperion or ACube get a license for the port.

Not a single company in the world got such license.

Quote:

The Freidens say they will never do a poet without a license.

Not sure. I seem to remember that Rogue said he would not mess with Linux code without proper documentation. And the fact that there was no license at that time (implying somehow that the license could not be obtained in any way) was the end of story.

Quote:

OH wait I get it now you seperate ExecSG out from OS4. I am not sure that is allowed. The Friedens could port it to the Mac and not be helping port OS4?

Where do you get that the Friedens did the MacMini port? According to the presented documentation, ACube (an italian company) paid an unnamed italian OS4 developer (which I assume would be working as a non-exclusive contractor for both Hyperion and ACube) to do the port.

Quote:

Edit to add: They worked with ACube on the port of ExecSG after knowing full well the troubles and that the buyback was exersized. Many here tried to downplay the troubles between the two parties, and tend to have less credibility with me, in fact in hindsight it looked like they tried to hide the truth. More conspiracies?

This is your point of view: fair enough.

My humble opinion is that ACube just wanted to do something for the Amiga market: the three partners are available in italian-language fora, and their commitment to Amiga cannot be denied. The Moana project (MacMini port) was a true gamble: my impression is that they hoped that Amiga Inc. would grant them a license if they could show something working already (instead of repeating history, and get a license and release the product 5 years later...)

At the end of the day, this is just a matter of $$$.
One company has spent a lot of time and money on OS4 without getting any reasonable sum back. Their fault? Well, yes.
Another company has let a potential hot product languish over the years focusing its attention on a missed digital revolution. And now it wants to make big money with it without shelling out dough: AInc offering Hyperion $2m is BS. Why then would AInc maintain that the requested $1.5m bond is too much? Talk is cheap.
A third company has started making waves in this so-called market with way too much can-do attitude the other two companies can handle. The Amiga spirit: my respects. Good luck: you'll need a lot of it, with such counterparties.

Solution: wipe the slate clean. AInc pays Hyperion a reasonable amount of money ($100k cannot be called reasonable by any means) and gets hold of OS4 sources. Then AInc grants OS4 licenses to all the parties that requested them and demonstrated to be able to deliver. Too easy indeed.

Back into darkness.

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@sgm

Agreed. Or another option, they recognise that Hyperion and the devs team have the true knowledge of AmigaOS now, so AInc can't do anything about it. They let them continue development of AmigaOS and they get royalties on it.
Which is a fair move, IMO.

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@sgm

Quote:

AInc offering Hyperion $2m is BS. Why then would AInc maintain that the requested $1.5m bond is too much? Talk is cheap.

Not necessarily. If you feel you can negotiate the bond down, then as a company whose aim is to make money, why wouldn't you.

I would guess from what has been said in the latest documents that the $2m dollar came with a number of strings. I would imagine that some of those were: All rights, source code and object code of OS4 to be handed over to Amiga Inc, a certain amount of the $2m must be used to pay the Friedens money they are owed, and finally the contract with the Friedens to be transferred to Amiga Inc.

From AInc's perspective $2m would probably be a reasonable amount to speedily bring this whole situation to a conclusion, and avoid a messy court case, and also to secure the Friedens to work on OS4/5 for Amiga Inc.

On the other hand the $1.5m bond doesn't get them anything, so they are likely to argue it down to the smallest amount they can get away with (just as Hyperion are trying to argue it up to the highest amount they can get away with).

@_PAB_

Quote:

As can be read from a chat log of Bill McEwen and a representative of ACube Systems,AmigaOS 4 has been ported and runs on MacMini:

Oh I hope so, I have a G5 iMac and it would be such a total solution for me to be able to run OSX and Amiga OS4 on the same machine..... bring it on!

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@sgm

Sorry to stir it up but I thought I had read where the Friedens (or at least Rogue) had help get ExecSG running on ACube's hardware. I though SSolie made a point of telling me it was just ExecSG they were working on porting and not OS4. If I am wrong I apologise (claim the begining of senelity or CRS syndrome).

Quote:

Solution: wipe the slate clean. AInc pays Hyperion a reasonable amount of money ($100k cannot be called reasonable by any means) and gets hold of OS4 sources. Then AInc grants OS4 licenses to all the parties that requested them and demonstrated to be able to deliver. Too easy indeed.

Good solution but who descides how much a license costs, what it covers, and what are the royalties? They both look greedy to me therefore not so easy a task.


Seems the discussion was with Saimo. Some of the info can be found at:
http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic_id=22148&forum=2&start=20&viewmode=flat&order=0#356654

Last edited by stew on 28-May-2007 at 09:55 PM.

@saimo

Quote:

ust for clearness' sake, I did not mean to suggest you did not do a good job

I was just agreeing with Rogue's assessment that no one really cared to get involved. I tracked downa couple things for my ibook as that is what I was interested in (and partially why I bought the thing, but now it's my main computer at home), but there's certainly still a lot of holes to fill. I only worked on it for a few days while at work, when I should have been doing other things. :) I could have done more there, but as I said when I started all that nonsense I was not going to be a one-man-band on that and shortly after didn't have time to spend on it myself. Since nobody else cared, I didn't feel bad leaving it only slightly done. It's still open if anyone wants to contribute, and I don't plan to close it in case something happens when I'm not paying attention .


Quote:

so could you please give me the URL?

amigamac.wikispaces.com

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@Thread

Stop all this useless waffle and GIVE ME MOANA

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Visit the Official OS4 Support Site for more help.

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@AmigaBlitter

I agree with you.... Os4 on MacMini could be a great thing....

@Jair

Quote:

Os4 on MacMini could be a great thing....

If it weren't for MacMiniPPC being EOL.

(I would not mind myself though, having a MacMiniPPC on my desk at home)

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@_PAB_


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joke

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@saimo

Quote:

so, please, stop stirring the pot.

Just when I am about to agree with you we have:
http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=23300&forum=2


From Raffaele
Remember that We are talking of Moana since 1 year ago.

So at Acube they realized AmigaOS loader for MacMini in less than six months and all the job it is done by only ONE SINGLE italian programmer with the help of Hyperion who suggested him how to peek and poke to realize the Moana Loader...

This is more than a proof of concept. It just proofs that protings of AmigaOS on any PPC architecture it is far easier than we could imagine!


And still have:
http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic_id=22148&forum=2&start=20&viewmode=flat&order=0#356654

Did the Friedens help with the port or not?

@stew

Depends on what you mean by "help". "Suggested him how to peek and poke" does not sound like a huge time investment to me; a few minutes on IRC with HJF while he's on his lunch break does not mean that Hyperion officially helped.

[edit] reworded.

Last edited by CodeSmith on 29-May-2007 at 08:30 AM.

@thread

from the osnews thread:

"So, not only did they have a port available, they had a port to widely-available hardware? And they still had the temerity to sue Hyperion?

My earlier comment, that there's no product so good it can't be managed into the ground, still stands."

read the rest of the story
http://www.osnews.com/comment.php?news_id=17986

Please, stop this stupid court case

_________________
retired

@billt

Quote:

amigamac.wikispaces.com

You did a remarkable job, and it's a pity it basically turned out to be a waste.
I agree it's better to keep the project open, although I cannot but feel the doom&gloom aura...

saimo

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@CodeSmith

So you would say they did help, (however small that help was) despite knowing the problems between Hyperion and AInc. and saying they wouldn't do any port without first getting a license. That is pretty much what I thought all along and got grief for it. Why not just say the changed their minds?

@stew

Quote:

Did the Friedens help with the port or not?

1. Initially your point was that the Friedens lied because they "shot down repeatedly" the request of porting AOS4 to Mac, whereas a port now has appeared: you have been replied (by several guys here, not just me) that there was no lie because, as explained by the court documents, that the port was not done by them.
2. You then tried to counter the replies you got using the license argument: you have been shown that your argument was null&void.
3. Now, you no longer talk about doing the port, but about helping with the port: firstly, as said in the chat transcript (IIRC) and as reported by yourself, the Frieden brothers only provided (a minimal) technical support, which surely qualifies as "help", but it is much different from doing the port; secondly - and most importantly - they never said they would not help any effort by third parties, but just said that they would not do the port.

In a nutshell, they did not lie.

saimo

edit: added a "because"

Last edited by saimo on 29-May-2007 at 12:40 PM.

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