@NoelFuller

Quote:

NoelFuller wrote: @fairlanefastback quoting myself Quote: I am aware of all these things including much that has been said on IRC and gone unpublished. Amiga Inc thought they were going to have a walkover. Ack believed them. What has changed is that it's not a walkover whatever the outcome. Ack was told first to go ahead regardless, then he acknowledged there would be some slippage, then he apparently was told to taihoa - that's Maori for wait a bit, put things on hold. The walkover bit was an impression of mine and of others including Ack when the first papers were lodged. By his own admission he believed Amiga Inc would win. That statement and those about slippage and putting the work on hold were all made on IRC. Sure there were no announcements. That term is reserved for good news isn't it?

Hello Noel,

If you would prefer the usage of a word other than "announcement" we can certainly use another. But assuming for a second that you are right, some type of communication to the their buying public at large would seem in order if such definitive statements are already out there and now circumstances have changed their ability to deliver. Neither company has a stellar reputation IMHO, but it would seem that for those that actually would spend the cash it would be more respectful to such consumers that if the stated and unsolicited timetable is no longer in effect, that we recieve an update. I think a number of us are fighting for companies that serve the Amiga market to be more open with us and to keep us better informed. Its easier to root for someone if they are doing so and easier to keep the faith and keep saving up for the machine then.

Last edited by fairlanefastback on 25-Jun-2007 at 04:14 PM.

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@edponpon

Quote:

5- If you feel you're being cheated, lied to, etc, fine, DON'T BUY ANYTHING from either of them. Period. Why is this so hard to get

In return it would be just as fair to ask why is it so hard to get that some people would choose to not buy anything from them (for the time being) AND discuss their behavior online for whatever reasons they may have (I listed some of mine in a previous post, feel free to comment).

Whether or not you agree companies making announcements have some moral requirements to follow-up on those (at least with good explanations when things fail many times), I think it would be reasonable to agree that we have a right to our opinion and a right to voice said opinion - unless the forum owners object of course.

@sundown

Quote:

I do understand the need for answers, but Adam has no love for us, we ripped him & his family apart, need more be said?

If this is so why solicit the community anew with the recent new product announcements, especially with such a small market, money hardly seems a motivation.

And as for the "we", I had nothing to do with what this supposed "we" did in the past. New potential customer here. Now how about something to show you are a actual company with a chance to produce a product? How about speaking to the valid concerns that seem to be out there before I ever heard of ACK Software Controls that make me very leery at what I hear today?

And again, why is this man involving us so much in his personal life? I'm concerned about what his company has said and will actually do. This does not mean I don't feel bad for any human in this position and hearing he is likely a one man firm with no website means personal circumstances will affect his business more than others. But why hold back some sort of proof in the year 2007 from consumers that had nothing to do with attacking this man personally but who have a good number of reasons to be filled with doubt today?

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@edponpon

Of course we are owed something, an explanation from Adam.
He posted various claims on this website of his own free will.
Claims that have not been fulfilled.
We have spent time reading these claims.
Time for humans is a finite resource.

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@TiredofLife: That´s the point: Nobody forced him to run a hardware-company or make this announcements. I run a (one-man-)company, too (movie-production company). If I would behave like ACK in the last time (making promises and don´t fulfill them with no explanation), I wouldn´t have customers anymore. "Private issues" are no excuse in business-life. What ACK has done in the past is simply not professional and shows now respect to (potential) customers. So Adam, as CEO of ACK, has to live with the critics. Period.


Typo. Sorry for my "non perfect" English

Last edited by AP on 25-Jun-2007 at 06:34 PM.

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@sundown who said Quote:

Adam was in irc for a short time today, he never talks about the threads in the forums & neither do we.

Nice to know he isn't talking about us behind our backs, but it also makes it crystal clear that he doesn't want to talk about the whole subject for some reason... (insert your guesses & random accusations here)

@NoelFuller
Thanks for digging-up those IRC logs. Were those logs publically posted? Or were they your own private recordings?

@all
I would have no problem with ACK's failure to deliver the goods, IF HE HAD EVER PROVIDED AN EXPLANATION. But he has never done that - instead we get a long period of silence, followed by another round of promises. For me it is the (repeated) lack of any explanation that I find unprofessional & caused me to loose any faith I had in ACK.

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@fairlanefastback

I can't see anyone being in a position to give an update on hardware availability. AckControls can't know in the present situation if the announced hardware can be produced in future let alone when, nor can Amiga Inc give him any answers that he could rely on. Nor can Hyperion say anything beyond what they already have - that is that they continue to work on OS4 and that is one small ray of hope. ACube also has offered a small hope in that we know they have something to market once their way is clear but they are in no position to say that this will happen let alone when.

We all know these things or should.

Noel

@NoelFuller
But what about ACK's past projects, that he seems to have cancelled without telling us?!? It would be nice if he had informed us, even if he can't give detailed reasons. And what about the boards people sent him to repair, that he hasn't returned?

Last edited by ChrisH on 25-Jun-2007 at 10:35 PM.

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@ChrisH

Quote:

Thanks for digging-up those IRC logs. Were those logs publically posted? Or were they your own private recordings?

Two or three early logs were posted on public forums but when people saw the harm that some individuals seemed intent on, they appear separately to have decided to post no more though as far as I know, no one has actually asked that no logs be published apart from me objecting on an AmigaWorld forum against publication without consent. I'm comfortable with what I have quoted here but it seems to have been in vain. I have many logs, and snippets of logs but only what people have forwarded to me as I don't seem to have the IRC bug yet. It's bad enough at present just to watch the Americas Cup in the early hours let alone stay up all the time to chat to people in the Northern Hemisphere.

To the few who insist on publishing defamatory statements in AmigaWorld threads read this from Wikipedia:

In law, defamation is the communication of a statement that makes a false claim, expressly stated or implied to be factual, that may harm the reputation of an individual, business, product, group, government or nation. Most jurisdictions allow legal actions, civil and/or criminal, to deter various kinds of defamation and retaliate against criticism.

The common law origins of defamation lie in the torts of slander (harmful statement in a transitory form, especially speech) and libel (harmful statement in a fixed medium, especially writing but also a picture, sign, or electronic broadcast), each of which gives a common law right of action.

"Defamation" is the general term used internationally, and is used in this article where it is not necessary to distinguish between "slander" and "libel". Libel and slander both require publication. The fundamental distinction between libel and slander lies solely in the form in which the defamatory matter is published. If the offending material is published in some fleeting form, as by spoken words or sounds, sign language, gestures and the like, then this is slander. If it is published in more durable form, for example in written words, film, compact disc (CD), internet blogging and the like, then it is considered libel.

@ChrisH

Quote:

But what about ACK's past projects, that he seems to have cancelled without telling us?!? It would be nice if he had informed us, even if he can't give detailed reasons. And what about the boards people sent him to repair, that he hasn't returned?

Maybe one day the relics will be Amiga display items as happened with the relics of Commodore's abandoned projects.

Noel

@NoelFuller

Quote:

AckControls can't know in the present situation if the announced hardware can be produced in future let alone when, nor can Amiga Inc give him any answers that he could rely on.

But yet both chose to make a joint announcement where they gave ETAs: "Summer 2007" and "Winter 2007". When you choose to make such announcements, you should know very well "if the hardware can be produced in the future" and you should also have a clear timeline for it.
Further, you say that "Amiga Inc can't give him any answers that he can rely on". Well, I agree with that, but apparently Adam chose to rely on them two months ago when he said something to the effect of
"They [Amiga Inc] told me there won't be any problems, so I don't worry."

@NoelFuller

Quote:

I can't see anyone being in a position to give an update on hardware availability. AckControls can't know in the present situation if the announced hardware can be produced in future let alone when, nor can Amiga Inc give him any answers that he could rely on. Nor can Hyperion say anything beyond what they already have - that is that they continue to work on OS4 and that is one small ray of hope. ACube also has offered a small hope in that we know they have something to market once their way is clear but t

Well said!

@hatschi

Quote:

But yet both chose to make a joint announcement where they gave ETAs: "Summer 2007" and "Winter 2007". When you choose to make such announcements, you should know very well "if the hardware can be produced in the future" and you should also have a clear timeline for it. Further, you say that "Amiga Inc can't give him any answers that he can rely on". Well, I agree with that, but apparently Adam chose to rely on them two months ago when he said something to the effect of "They [Amiga Inc] told me there won't be any problems, so I don't worry."

True and true, yet even Microsoft with its thousands of employees can't keep to an announced timeline. Smaller outfits are knocked out by smaller things. Your last quote was one of those I had in mind when I said Ack was told to go ahead.

Noel

@NoelFuller

Quote:

NoelFuller wrote: @fairlanefastback I can't see anyone being in a position to give an update on hardware availability. AckControls can't know in the present situation if the announced hardware can be produced in future let alone when, nor can Amiga Inc give him any answers that he could rely on. .... We all know these things or should. Noel

Hello Noel,

All but one of the announcements is after the lawsuit was underway. And the first one it appears while it was being prepared. This will be pointed out whenever the case, in a very early stage I might add, is brought up as an excuse at the moment for ACK. If Amiga saw it as a slam-dunk they could have jointly announced this after the quick slam-dunk. And regardless, this thread is about ACK, and ACK decided to make these joint announcements with these unsolicted declarations entirely in light of the proceeding very real lawsuit (minus perhaps the first announcement pre lawsuit filing).

And I don't know if anyone who would be interested in a new Amiga and saw the press releases on a tech site somewhere should be aware of all the history from the 21st century when it comes to the corporate dramas that encompass Amiga, Hyperion, Genesi, and ACK. We do want people who used them in the 80's but who are not necessaryily aware of the more recent stuff to get treated properly as a potential consumer. Those people will still be expecting to see finished machines by Summer and Winter, depending on the model desired if they are not updated in any way. Thats not good business IMHO.

Last edited by fairlanefastback on 26-Jun-2007 at 12:03 AM.
Last edited by fairlanefastback on 26-Jun-2007 at 12:03 AM.
Last edited by fairlanefastback on 26-Jun-2007 at 12:02 AM.
Last edited by fairlanefastback on 25-Jun-2007 at 11:59 PM.

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@NoelFuller

Quote:

NoelFuller wrote: @ChrisH Quote: But what about ACK's past projects, that he seems to have cancelled without telling us?!? It would be nice if he had informed us, even if he can't give detailed reasons. And what about the boards people sent him to repair, that he hasn't returned? Maybe one day the relics will be Amiga display items as happened with the relics of Commodore's abandoned projects. Noel

And yet seeing something of them now would allay many concerns of the present. This has been offered up as a way to lower and/or eliminate some concerns. This supposedly was even agreed to previously as some have written here, but then taken back because of some personal issue that arose with a forum poster. Now what do the rest of us have to do with that situation? Nothing that I can see.

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@fairlanefastback

Good point.
It's not just us long suffering fans who need some sort of update.
There is also a new generation of users to attract.
There should be some sort of update on the Amiga site, if not on a site for ACK Controls.
It's now the 26th of June and no sign of the lower specced model.
Unless Amigakit or someone can tell us different?
If not, surely an explanation from either company and a progress report to date is needed if any prospective buyers are to take this project seriously.

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@NoelFuller

Quote:

Two or three early logs were posted on public forums but when people saw the harm that some individuals seemed intent on, they appear separately to have decided to post no more though as far as I know, no one has actually asked that no logs be published apart from me objecting on an AmigaWorld forum against publication without consent.

Consent? Consent from whom? The listeners? Are you talking on the street and then expect all people not to spread what you said if they see fit? Strange...

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@fairlanefastback

Quote:

And as for the "we", I had nothing to do with what this supposed "we" did in the past.

I'm very careful about using certain words in my post & do my best to not get personal if I can help it. I had nothing to do with it either, but the "we" comment was to imply that "we" are all guilty by association as a group. You may not like that idea either, but if you're out with a buddy & he shoots someone, you will end up in jail as well.

Quote:

And again, why is this man involving us so much in his personal life?

He's not saying anything, "we" are.

Last edited by sundown on 26-Jun-2007 at 12:24 AM.

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@ChrisH

Quote:

Nice to know he isn't talking about us behind our backs, but it also makes it crystal clear that he doesn't want to talk about the whole subject for some reason...

I'm sure he's been told to say nothing because of the court case.

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@sundown

Quote:

sundown wrote: @fairlanefastback I'm very careful about using certain words in my post & do my best to not get personal if I can help it. I had nothing to do with it either, but the "we" comment was to imply that "we" are all guilty by association as a group. You may not like that idea either, but if you're out with a buddy & he shoots someone, you will end up in jail as well.

What does it take to become part of "we"? To post in this thread once, to post anywhere on this site once? To merely be a member of the site? To merely be a non-member reader? Does this condition exist time in memoriam into the future? Has someone from ACK said this? So we are the consumers but are punished for the sins of our fathers in essence with ACK as the judge? Is this what you are saying or am I reading too much into what you are writing?? I'm still baffled, we are the waiting customers. Since when does the company looking to sell a product get to say I hang out with a bad crowd, but oh yeah you are the crowd I want to sell to! (As I read what you are saying, again did ACK convey this??).

As for the jail bit, thats an extreme example, and it only works if you act as an accessory to the crime. Now a better example is you weren't there, did not participate in the planning or commission of the crime, nothing, nada, and after the fact you have denounced the wrong done as wrong. Better yet he wasn't even your friend, you never knew him. Now why exactly should all of us be ill-treated about this tragic personal issue from back then?

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