@jtsiren
Quote:

ack: Quote: I don't have to explain, nor the time to explain, in any level of detail of how or why it will happen. It just will. Period. That is certainly one bold statement. I remember seeing it somewhere before.

It's pretty common on sites like THIS ONE.

_________________
Here for the whimpering end

@NoelFuller

Then its quite odd that ACK is stating how the items will be sold to end consumers is it not, saying even if God told him to sell it a certain way he'd only do it as he wished (motherboard only option or not). Now if Amiga is the one selling why is ACK the one speaking of how all will be packaged for sale to us as end consumers? Why is ACK providing information on the timing of the release of developer boards to the public?

The press releases and IRC chats indicate to me ACK is the one selling hardware, at least to retailers/dealers, in addition to the public statement to the press published in the Kent Reporter from Amiga. Regardless, he is engaging us with these peices of information as if he is the authority to do so. I see no reason to doubt that at this point.

Now this stuff Bill is writing to dealers, isn't this where he was writing looking for old invoices for an odd request he said he got? The rest sounds like filler to me. And even if it conflicts that he is also getting into the hardware business it does not take away the other inidications that ACK is in it. Should I believe the accidental thing I was not intended to see, or the statement to the public that conflicts with that? Either way thats an Amiga question, not an ACK one.

As to your quotation of ACK's words about not being concerned with our conversations its president asked in a previous but similar thread in a post that we stop. He also got emotional in this one.

If he agrees with you that his firm is not in the hardware business and that his frim ACK is not trying to market to us one iota then let him say so to us here. Then we can start an "Amiga - why did you choose ACK" thread instead if its prefered. Its not going to stop people from seeking the truth. It may change where the questions get directed, true. But if ACK is wasting our time or Amiga's, either way we don't want that occuring. Because either way we get screwed out of promised hardware again if true. This is especially critical when, given the absence of ACK they might open up more to other possibilites that already exist in an undisputed fashion.

On the flip side he says PowerVixxen exists and runs Linux and that the manual was written, he can show these no sweat. He will win over many, embarass people like gliterring and earn, many, many more defenders, it would buy him years worth of extra defenders if need be I am quite sure.

Last edited by fairlanefastback on 27-Jun-2007 at 11:47 PM.
Last edited by fairlanefastback on 27-Jun-2007 at 11:45 PM.

_________________
Pegasos2 G3 running AOS 4.1 and MorphOS 2.0
Amikit user, tinkering with Icaros VM (AROS)
EFIKA owner
Amiga 1200

@jtsiren

Quote:

I'll actually up it one notch. I promise you guys - not announce, I really promise - if ACK/Amiga delivers the hardware, available and shipping by end of Summer 2007, say by September 15th, I will buy one of the $489 units just to acknowledge they made it this time. I think this is only fair given all the discussion here.

Ditto.

_________________
Pegasos2 G3 running AOS 4.1 and MorphOS 2.0
Amikit user, tinkering with Icaros VM (AROS)
EFIKA owner
Amiga 1200

@sundown

Quote:

No comment as I feel the endless beatings have given him the right to ignore us. The beatings started exactly 1 yr ago in another thread similar to this one.

Fine. Hence we agree to disagree - you feel he has a right to ignore us, I feel he brought the criticism on himself and thus should explain. Difference of opinion and that's that.

I was reading the Entry Level specs and I'd actually be pretty interested in trying the machine out, with my promise out there now. Especially if OS4 would be available for it, but I guess that may not happen due to the impossibilities of the timeline / issues with Hyperion co-operation. It would certainly be one thing to have the system here to try even with Linux. I'll also make sure I review it for the Finnish Saku magazine if I actually get to buy the machine within the timeline, that would be the first article in a long time for me.

I'd actually really want ACK/Amiga to deliver this time around. It has been a long time since I have had the chance to see new "Amiga" (even how ever loosely) related hardware of my own. The last time was Pegasos, what, back in 2003 and before that it was Amiga Technologies products. The AmigaOne never interested me due to quality issues.

Last edited by jtsiren on 27-Jun-2007 at 11:49 PM.

@jtsiren

I'm working backwards up the page

Quote:

How come the assumption that Amiga Inc. is suddenly the responsible party?

By now you will have read the quote from the letter to dealers from Amiga Inc. I did not realise how many may not have read it.

Quote:

I probably do not understand what you mean by a test. You say a test to work it must be something for which a response has to be made - yet you say demanding photographs or demos are not such tests? Isn't a photograph the response? What exactly are such tests you talk about? If I (or someone else) tests ACK by asking for photographs, like they have and ACK chooses not to respond, how is this not a test?

I admit that I have never had to put the announcements of a commercial legal entity to the kind of test I'm thinking of. I consider only what I can find on the shelves. Appeals for evidence such as photographs are quite sensible of course but they are not proofs and as we know some people won't respond and don't have to. Of course real hoxers and con artists as well as every shopkeeper and business with a website are well aware of the importance of the shop window even if there is nothing on the shelves. Seeing is believing they know and supply all the pictures we want. I mentioned placing an order with Amiga Inc as that is a matter with legal consequences. Anyone doing so will experience a series of quite legitimate sounding put offs which we could write ourselves no trouble but the responses are evidence of a kind too.

On another point not in your post, I meant to mention it in annother response.
Consider the only public statements attributed to Adam for Ack Software Controls from April 22 - found in the hardware announcements. Whose style are those words? I've written statements in other peoples name too with their consent and acceptance of the words of course. Such massaged statements infest every press release IMO. That is all we will see in future with respect to announcements.

Noel

@shackleton

Quote:

Has anyone been in contact with Bill or anyone @ Amiga Inc recently? They seem rather hard to get in touch with, whether is on the phone or by mail? Just curious!

I've never tried but I do know of almost immediate responses up to just before the hardware announcements. That's a while back now and of course people may be selective as to whom they respond to.

Noel

@NoelFuller

Quote:

Appeals for evidence such as photographs are quite sensible of course but they are not proofs and as we know some people won't respond and don't have to. Of course real hoxers and con artists as well as every shopkeeper and business with a website are well aware of the importance of the shop window even if there is nothing on the shelves.

OK, I agree that photographs do not prove anything. On the other hand, refusal to even post photographs is suspicious in itself.

Quote:

Consider the only public statements attributed to Adam for Ack Software Controls from April 22 - found in the hardware announcements. Whose style are those words? I've written statements in other peoples name too with their consent and acceptance of the words of course.

Sure, the entire announcement(s) feels like "Amiga Inc." very much.

I agree Amiga Inc. has taken an active role in the latest ACK hardware announcements. I don't necessarily think ACK has detached entirely from the PR role as you seem to suggest, but then without first-hand information we can't be sure either way.

I guess I won't be the one pursuing the kind of test you suggest with Amiga Inc. and ACK (I consider it futile/waste of time in light of past activity), but I am willing to give them the benefit of the doubt about the Summer 2007 announcement and if the hardware does materialize in time to dealers/some other public channel, I will buy it. That would seem fair given all.

Last edited by jtsiren on 28-Jun-2007 at 12:00 AM.

@fairlanefastback

Quote:

On the flip side he says PowerVixxen exists and runs Linux and that the manual was written, he can show these no sweat. He will win over many, embarass people like gliterring and earn, many, many more defenders, it would buy him years worth of extra defenders if need be I am quite sure.

Agreed. I still hope he does this, I don't see how he could be hindered by Amiga Inc. concerning the PowerVixxen so he could do this as just a PR activity and clear up some concerns as well as give some of the explanations some of us feel he should give to the community.

@fairlanefastback

Quote:

It can be healthy, sometimes its constructive and warranted and others not.

Answer me this, at what point does criticism aimed at you on a daily basis become beatings, in your opinion? Not setting you up here, just trying to put you in ack's shoes.

Life has taught me that friendly communications will get me more info then hostile communications.

_________________
Hate tends to make you look stupid...

@jtsiren

Quote:

Maybe others will join me? Would this constitute a test Noel?

Start with a serious enquiry with intent to place an order, to Amiga Inc and keep on it. If someone has read this page I suspect that enquiries will be considered rather carefully. Beware of the confidentiality stuff at the bottom of emails. The track is of public importance.

Noel

@sundown

I'll try not to go to the issues which I agreed to disagree on, just trying for my part to answer the question.

Quote:

Answer me this, at what point does criticism aimed at you on a daily basis become beatings, in your opinion? Not setting you up here, just trying to put you in ack's shoes.

When one chooses a public role (like marketing hardware as company here), some criticism and some abnormal hostility should be expected. Fail to deliver many times, even more should be expected. Where is the limit? I don't know, but I do know we disagree on whether or not it was crossed.

Quote:

Life has taught me that friendly communications will get me more info then hostile communications.

Obviously. I doubt you've seen anything else from fairlanefastback, or myself for that matter in this thread and I'd say this holds true for many people who have requested/waited for info from ACK. (Of course it is also true there have been complete nutcases out there.)

@NoelFuller

Quote:

Start with a serious enquiry with intent to place an order, to Amiga Inc and keep on it. If someone has read this page I suspect that enquiries will be considered rather carefully. Beware of the confidentiality stuff at the bottom of emails. The track is of public importance.

Thank you for the explanation, I guess I now have a bit better picture as to what you are hinting at.

As for the test itself, I find that futile, so I'll pass. People have tried and failed with Amiga Inc. in similar tests too many times (usually greeted with silence, hollow responses or excuses) - I choose not to risk wasting my time. I guess Amiga Inc. cried wolf one too many times for me to run out there again and see. Does someone else want to take up that task of trying to organize the purchase beforehand with Amiga Inc.?

As for me - if the announcement holds, the machines will be available for customers summer 2007. Nowhere did they state I'd have to contact them directly to express my desire to buy one. In fact, Bill McEwen said they'd order thousands for the dealers to sell. They also said more information will follow, so I will await for their word as to where I can buy one (I will follow all my usual Amiga related news channels, I don't expect them to email me personally of course) and if it comes out in time and reasonably as-specced in the announcement, I will buy one. My promise is sincere and out there for others to judge and follow-up.

I'll be true to my word. I'd actually be very interested to see what kind of machine it is. Heck, I will even post PHOTOGRAPH proving (for those who believe its not fake) I bought the machine when I get it. You can then dissect the picture all you want.

Last edited by jtsiren on 28-Jun-2007 at 12:24 AM.
Last edited by jtsiren on 28-Jun-2007 at 12:23 AM.

@jtsiren

Quote:

Fine. Hence we agree to disagree - you feel he has a right to ignore us, I feel he brought the criticism on himself and thus should explain. Difference of opinion and that's that.

Ah, the "gentlemen's agreement", I like that & agree.

There are 2 things I'd like to see from ack.

1. A 1.2MHz G3 GL cpu module for my micro
2. The new high end system

I really hope his partnership with AI pans out the way he wants.

_________________
Hate tends to make you look stupid...

@fairlanefastback

Quote:

On the flip side he says PowerVixxen exists and runs Linux and that the manual was written, he can show these no sweat. He will win over many, embarass people like gliterring and earn, many, many more defenders, it would buy him years worth of extra defenders if need be I am quite sure.

That is true but other matters seem to block the perception.

Now there is a person I know who does not use a face cloth in a shower and therefore steps out of it discharging a large volume of water full of body matter onto the floor towel which is never hung up in a smoothed out form so it can dry. Further towels get too wet to dry and proliferate. Now do you think some simple advice from me is heard? Not a bit and I've been trying for years. I could instigate a flaming row of course but that is manipulation and usually just increases the deafness. I have noticed though that when someone whose regard he realises he needs raises a difficult matter of hygiene the message may get through.

Noel

@NoelFuller

Quote:

Now do you think some simple advice from me is heard? Not a bit and I've been trying for years. I could instigate a flaming row of course but that is manipulation and usually just increases the deafness.

Ah, the intricacies of human communication. I hear you. The human element is likely relevant in the ACK case too, but since it is a company aiming to sell products, I continue to feel that a different standard applies than that person using your shower.

@sundown

Quote:

sundown wrote: @fairlanefastback Quote: It can be healthy, sometimes its constructive and warranted and others not. Answer me this, at what point does criticism aimed at you on a daily basis become beatings, in your opinion? Not setting you up here, just trying to put you in ack's shoes. Life has taught me that friendly communications will get me more info then hostile communications.

I hardly feel my offer to be one of the first to buy one of ACK's new machines makes me hostile. Or my acknowledgements of the good news to hear it can repair boards as evidenced by some previous Toronto computer show. Or my advice at how easily its president could earn back trust for his firm and an army of defenders IMO. And if ACK has lied about PowerVixxen, something I have never accused it of, well then if it is indeed so (lets hope not) and it admits it then I will happily thank them for their honesty now. I even would be open to second chances. The bottom line is that ACK solicited our interest in this new undertaking. I'm sorry if the interest is not in the manner that the company may have hoped for. This was a miscalulation on its part perhaps? None of this makes me hostile.

I can't control how ACK will react and I think we have been quite nice in this thread. Now many of us haven't had kid gloves on, but there is a reason for that I suspect, we are past that phase, too many unfufilled promises. So we are talking real deal. That dosen't mean we aren't being nice. Additionally you have said that even if someone is very nice they still won't get anything because you believe ACK is operating under a guilt by association model, i.e. Amiga community member = mean, must shun, or the like. This leaves us with very little else to do. ACK is happy staying silent, we seem happy enough continuing to discuss things in this thread. ACK holds the cards, it is the one with the PowerVixxen running Linux. If it wants to move to a different phase of communication with us, the avenue is fully open I would say. I'd be much happier speaking with excitement that since ACK made PowerVixxen it can surely make the new stuff.

_________________
Pegasos2 G3 running AOS 4.1 and MorphOS 2.0
Amikit user, tinkering with Icaros VM (AROS)
EFIKA owner
Amiga 1200

@fairlanefastback

Excellent posting.

@NoelFuller

Quote:

NoelFuller wrote: @fairlanefastback Quote: On the flip side he says PowerVixxen exists and runs Linux and that the manual was written, he can show these no sweat. He will win over many, embarass people like gliterring and earn, many, many more defenders, it would buy him years worth of extra defenders if need be I am quite sure. That is true but other matters seem to block the perception. Now there is a person I know who does not use a face cloth in a shower and therefore steps out of it discharging a large volume of water full of body matter onto the floor towel which is never hung up in a smoothed out form so it can dry. Further towels get too wet to dry and proliferate. Now do you think some simple advice from me is heard? Not a bit and I've been trying for years. I could instigate a flaming row of course but that is manipulation and usually just increases the deafness. I have noticed though that when someone whose regard he realises he needs raises a difficult matter of hygiene the message may get through. Noel

And so you have been dealing with this issue for years then. And nary a thing has changed? I hope you are not further burdened cleaning the body matter and sopping wet towels as well? Forgive me then, I honestly ask, what you are advocating to get through to ACK then that we are not doing? Who can we call upon "whose regard (ACK) realises (it) needs" that can act on our behalf then (using your example)?

Last edited by fairlanefastback on 28-Jun-2007 at 01:02 AM.

_________________
Pegasos2 G3 running AOS 4.1 and MorphOS 2.0
Amikit user, tinkering with Icaros VM (AROS)
EFIKA owner
Amiga 1200

@jtsiren

Quote:

jtsiren wrote: @fairlanefastback Excellent posting.

Thank you. :)

_________________
Pegasos2 G3 running AOS 4.1 and MorphOS 2.0
Amikit user, tinkering with Icaros VM (AROS)
EFIKA owner
Amiga 1200

@fairlanefastback

Just be patent a little longer. At this point I feel that if ack did post here now, it would only start a new round of criticism from a few. If this court case can be settled & ack does get at least the low end system done, this thread will be forgotten. I would then hope that ack would make right the other problems he's created. He's carrying a huge weight on his shoulders right now & I'm sure we'll see a change if its lifted (I hope).

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Hate tends to make you look stupid...