@Tomas

1st party XBox 360 exclusive, but the framerate isn't that good.

Eurogamer: "Although it underpins the game with all sorts of excellent ideas that ought to make it a deeper, more intelligent and immersive experience, the simple truth is that the minute-to-minute combat simply isn't as intense and involving as you'd expect from a game in 2007. Throw in some grumbles about the somewhat unoptimised state of the frame-rate, texture pop-in and v-syncing terrors, and it's a game that just falls short of our expectations." Still 8/10

Seems like xbox 360 has gotten yet another quality game with both good gameplay and graphics according to reviews.. here are a couple of screenshots:
image1
image2

Last edited by Tomas on 19-Nov-2007 at 05:43 PM.

@Tomas

Quote:

Tomas wrote: @Lou I was thinking the same in beginning, but i am getting more and more skeptical now. If it has power left, then why have none of the games a decent amount of anti alias for example? The jagged graphics is one of the things that bothers me alot.. Surely it cannot be that hard to develop games for the wii?

Laziness mostly. Lack of optimized middleware forces 3rd parties to stop short on effects.

Gamebryo was recently optimized for the Wii. That was used to power Oblivion. I'm not saying we'll see Oblivion on the Wii, but I'm saying we will see better looking games on the Wii.

Rent Super Mario Galaxy, Resident Evil 4 (or Umbrella Chronicles) or Metroid Prime 3 and you won't be visually disappointed.


Also check out this week's releasesin the US:

Xbox 360:

Rock Band
Mass Effect
College Hoops 2K8
Avatar: The Burning Earth
Final Fantasy XI Online: Wings of the Goddess
Final Fantasy XI Online: Vana'diel Collection 08

PS3:

Rock Band
Medal of Honor Airborne
College Hoops 2K8
Time Crisis 4
Timeshift
Soldier of Fortune: Pay Back
The Elder Scrolls IV: Shivering Isles
Uncharted: Drake's Fortune

Nintendo Wii:

Nintendo Wii Zapper with Link's Crossbow Training
Ghost Squad
AMF Bowling Pinbusters
Soul Calibur Legends
Trauma Center: New Blood
Star Trek: Conquest
Geometry Wars: Galaxies
Monster Jam

PS2:

College Hoops 2K8
Final Fantasy XI Online: Wings
Final Fantasy XI Online: Vana'diel 08
Phantasy Star Universe: Ambition of Illuminus
Star Trek Conquest
Cabela's Monster Bass
History Channel: Battle of the Pacific
Godzilla Unleashed
Luxor: Pharoah's Challenge
Petz Dogz 2
Cabela's Big Game Hunter

PSP:

Luxor: Pharoah's Challenge

Nintendo DS:

Mario Party
Final Fantasy XII: Revenant Wings
Godzilla Unleashed
CSI Dark Motives
Baby Pals
Strawberry Shortcake: 4 Seasons Cake
Petz Hamsterz Life 2
John Deere: Harvest in the Heartland

PC Games:

Unreal Tournament III
Sega Rally Revo
Final Fantasy XI: Wings of the Goddess
History Channel: Battle for the Pacific
Phantasy Star Universe: Ambition of the Illuminus
Imagine: Fashion Designer

@Lou
I was thinking the same in beginning, but i am getting more and more skeptical now. If it has power left, then why have none of the games a decent amount of anti alias for example? The jagged graphics is one of the things that bothers me alot.. Surely it cannot be that hard to develop games for the wii?

Per my post here : http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic_id=22190&forum=17&start=20&viewmode=flat&order=0#412565

also some details on the Wii's gpu which operates at 487.5MHz:
Quote:

About TMEM and eFB, there is 1 MB of TMEM and 2 MB of eFB embedded in the Flipper GPU as 1T-SRAM. In fact, it takes up about 1/3 of the die space. The TMEM holds textures (or texture fragments), possibly compressed using S3TC, that are to be used immediately by the GPU. Less critical textures are in main memory. The eFB is used extensively as a "scratch pad" for rendering parts of a scene and for the z-buffer. The z-buffer is an 8/16/24-bit representation of the position of different vertices or objects to be rendered and is one of the Flipper's secrets to success. Many, many of the operations other GPUs (like Xbox's) perform as texture shader operations are performed by the Flipper as z-buffer and blending operations in the eFB. Its pretty fascinating, actually.

a 24bit 1024x600 frame requires 1843200 bytes which is well within the limits of Wii's 2MB frame and Z buffer.

Trust me when I say their is a little more juice left in the Wii.

@Tomas

Quote:

definitely prefer the Xbox 360 gui over the PS3 one. It both looks better and feels more responsive

The XBox 360 interface does offer some nice looking colors, but considering customization is possible and that I use the console for media playback as well (MP3, my music videos and photos) I now prefer the PS3 GUI from the functionality perspective.

@BrianK
I agree about Motorstorm.. The game seems more like a tech demo than a real game. I find Ridge Racer to be a much better game, even though it is pretty weak graphical wise when compared.

@MikeB
I definitely prefer the Xbox 360 gui over the PS3 one. It both looks better and feels more responsive.

@BrianK

Quote:

Motorstorm playability isn't there

I am rather good at a couple of tracks and love playing the game online. Though Oblivion took too much of my time lately, the game deserves more love from me.

@BrianK

Quote:

Sorry it was accurate. There IS duplicate content on the disc and it was done to facilitate loading.

It was inaccurately used to show the PS3's Blu-Ray drive would be too slow or would be at a significant disadvantage. That's the only reason it's being dragged forward time and time again.

@MikeB
Well, people tend to want what is most expensive
The problem with PS3 right now is the pricetag. Even the 40gig model is still pretty pricey here in Europe.

@BrianK

Quote:

As for the PS3 OS GUI I'm very unsatisified.

Personally I am very satisfied with the orderly nature of the XMB. I really dig it when I select a game video-icon and a background image of the game shows up and plays some kickass game music like with Ratchet.

Really cool theming potential here, an Uncharted theme which looks promising:

http://i2.tinypic.com/73ahnuu.jpg

Another PS3 strongpoint is that you can access all your PS3 media remotely using a PSP, thus this approach is actually pretty cool.

@Samwel

Quote:

Personally I'm satisfied with the PS3's OS now. If features are added to this then great IMO. I'm more of a tech freak. I like Sony to add under the hood stuff instead. Like, DivX, Xvid, Bitstream TrueHD, Bitstream DTS-HD, decoded DTS-HD etc..

Sony said DiVX is coming. As for Bitstream perhaps it'll come. I don't have high hopes. As for the PS3 OS GUI I'm very unsatisified. They copied the PSP which does work well. But, what's with 80% of my screen essentially empty? In the tech freak sense it's a poor design for 1080p.

Quote:

The general public doesn't experience the PS3 as a multi media machine. That's the big problem.

True. There was a survey and I forget the results but a large minority of PS3 users didn't know it'd play Blu-Ray movies and about as much didn't care. I'd venture even more don't care about media streaming.

Quote:

I'm sure the 40GB is the start of an attack for a bigger market share. But it still needs a even lower price to make a big impact

Yes, it likely is. I think rather then a lower price it needs games. I know you think the 60+ games is enough but sales will shine once Final Fantasy and other exclusives make it to the console.



@MikeB
Quote:

thought it would be a great success actually, at least greatly outselling the GameCube, but I also thought and think it would be difficult for them (and XBox 360) to get past a 40 million insall base for the long run.

As for final count I'm not sure. But, what I think, and do many many others, is that this time the overall marketshare will be more equitable and the PS3 won't be the run away hit that the PS2 was. Perhaps that ends up with none getting 40M. Microsoft and Nintendo neither have to get 40M nor have to be #1 to consider this generation a success. They simply need to own a larger piece of the pie.

Quote:

with the XBox 360 I don't see that many additional high profile games hitting the market to boost its sales

Then you simply haven't paid attention. Some of the compelling titles: Alone in the Dark, DMC4, Fable2, GTA IV, Halo Wars, Lost Odyessy, Ninja Gaiden2, Splinter Cell, Too Human, UT3. Clearly there are many high profile games on the way for the 360. Yes some are cross platform but we'll see more of that with this generation.

Quote:

WIth regard to for example the Berthesa comments, I already said the duplication issue was really out of context and inaccurate

Sorry it was accurate. There IS duplicate content on the disc and it was done to facilitate loading. Now Besthesda said people made too much of the issue and the reason is that it's not really that big of a deal as there's plenty of room and they used the same method on the 360.


@Lou
Quote:

Regardless, Super Mario Galaxy, according to gamerankings.com , is the highest rated game of all time. Not bad for a standard resolution game, eh?

Thanks. This was exactly my point. People do love high res graphics but they like playablity and they like value for their $$. Super Stardust HD -- at $10 this Robotron like shooter is a great value. Motorstorm playability isn't there compared to Excite Truck and it's simply not a good buy. Heavenly Sword again pretty for the 6 hours then you're like WTF is that all? When games are overly short it turns people off not only to the game but to the console.


@Thomas
Quote:

I personally think we will see a drop in the sales already by the end of next year. But then Nintendo might already have something new up their sleves.

I think this also. We've seen the Gameboy go through revisions and remain popular. We've see nthe DS go through revisions and remain popular. If I were in Nintendo's shoes I'd try this for the Wii. And at that price it's easy to buy one now and then buy a newer one in a couple of years.

@Tomas

With regard to PS3 vs 360 sales note that even for the US, research indicated people have the PS3 higher on their Christmas wishlist than they have the XBox 360. The PS3 is already outperfoming the XBox 360 in both Japan and Europe markets, so your "even" seems a little far fetched for the long run, considering the really high profile exclusives including Metal Gear Solid 4, Final Fantasy XIII, White Knight Story, Gran Turismo 5, Killzone 2 are yet to come.

@MikeB
I think the xbox 360 and even ps3 will surpass nintendo wii in the end as well.. I personally think we will see a drop in the sales already by the end of next year. But then Nintendo might already have something new up their sleves.

The Wii looks best on a standard sized CRT tv and more and more people will most likely want to take advantage of their new 40"+ hdtv screens. On my 42" lcd the Wii graphics looks just horrible. You notice this much more on a large screen than on a regular 28-32" or so, where the Wii graphics are satisfying enough.

But in the end it was a success anyways, considering the much lower development costs and more profit per sale.

Last edited by Tomas on 19-Nov-2007 at 03:02 PM.

@Lou

Quote:

As I stated earlier, MP3 and Fire Emblem:RD are certainly not easy to digest. Regardless, Super Mario Galaxy, according to gamerankings.com , is the highest rated game of all time. Not bad for a standard resolution game, eh?

You misunderstood, I was talking about their strongpoints. Wii Sports will probably outsell even Mario Galaxy and Zelda lifetime sales combined for Japan. Two very popular games, but dwarfed in sales by the easy to pick up and play Wii Sports.

Last edited by MikeB on 19-Nov-2007 at 02:42 PM.

@Zardoz

Quote:

Perhaps it can. That never was my argument or the argument of the other people that were with me on this one. It can draw x at 1080p, it can draw x+y, where y the possibilities unleashed by the extra cycles released, at 720p. Fact. That was it. That was all. There was nothing else to it.

Like I said in the past at 480p there's even more power spared, but here you have the PS3 offering all this potential (Cell, Blu-Ray, default harddrive). There's no need to make such a sacrifice, mature 1080p game engines will allow for much more detailed graphics with nearly any effect developers can dream of.

The whole argument originated from that blasted Microsoft Gaming Technology Director people wanted to defend and the fact that especially the early games didn't tap into the potential I was talking about.

"I think 1080p, just to address that directly, will be basically impossible. I think if you talk to any developer they will tell you that they will not have a performing game at 1080p."

Many developers when they started working on the PS3 games they had to make assumptions of what the hardware is capable of without shooting too high to cause difficulties later on (taking into account the time & effort it takes to move processes over to the SPEs).

@MikeB

Quote:

Well you didn't get the point of my original argument, IMO the PS3 is capable enough to have its games in 1080p with more effects and things being drawn on the XBox 360 in 720p.

Perhaps it can. That never was my argument or the argument of the other people that were with me on this one. It can draw x at 1080p, it can draw x+y, where y the possibilities unleashed by the extra cycles released, at 720p. Fact. That was it. That was all. There was nothing else to it. People are nowhere near to using the whole potential of the console yet anyway. It does not mean that a game today would look better in 720p, it was a general observation.

Quote:

What effects are missing in Uncharted that should have been done? Why wouldn't they be able to add more effects and draw more in Uncharted 2 considering what they have learned from their first game?

Oh dear. Did I say anything is missing? Did I say they wouldn't be able to draw more if they use the console better? If I did, quote me. Why can't you discuss something in an abstract manner?

Last edited by Zardoz on 19-Nov-2007 at 02:22 PM.
Last edited by Zardoz on 19-Nov-2007 at 02:21 PM.

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@Zardoz

Quote:

*SIGH*. Hundreds of pages of discussion and you really did not get a word of what the 1080p argument was, as it definitely wasn't about it being an optimal resolution or not... It was abstract discussion evaluating the relative performance-resolution-gfx quality curve and how decreasing one can give you the ability to increase the others, as the product of the above is the actual power of the console... It had nothing to do with whether the PS3 is powerful enough for 1080p, of course it is, it was whether you could create games running at 720p and use the cycles released by doing so to draw more stuff.

Well you didn't get the point of my original argument, IMO the PS3 is capable enough to have its games in 1080p with more effects and things being drawn than on the XBox 360 in 720p. According to many Uncharted is already the best looking console game and they are only tapping a minority of the console's potential. Likewise Ratchet & Clank probably the most demanding console game so far and their game engine is expected to show as great of an advancement as we saw with regard to Resistance vs Ratchet PS3 for Resistance 2.

What effects are missing in Uncharted that should have been done? Why wouldn't they be able to add more effects and draw more in Uncharted 2 considering what they have learned from their first game?

Last edited by MikeB on 19-Nov-2007 at 02:37 PM.
Last edited by MikeB on 19-Nov-2007 at 02:17 PM.
Last edited by MikeB on 19-Nov-2007 at 02:17 PM.
Last edited by MikeB on 19-Nov-2007 at 02:16 PM.

@MikeB

Quote:

It's not like you and others wanted to come to a common understanding, that it may indeed be exaggerated by you guys and not worthy to come back on time and time again! Same with regard to 1080p games, I stated that for the long run IMO the PS3 is more than powerful enough to have this as its optimal resolution while tapping into the console's potential. So much outrage and misunderstanding followed, yet Uncharted runs in a 1080p resolution while still only using a fraction of the PS3's potential according to the developers. MGS4 has been played by many people in 1080p and they state the game plays gorgeously. Why couldn't you guys come to the common understanding that indeed the PS3 may well be powerful enough?

*SIGH*. Hundreds of pages of discussion and you really did not get a word of what the 1080p argument was, as it definitely wasn't about it being an optimal resolution or not... It was abstract discussion evaluating the relative performance-resolution-gfx quality curve and how decreasing one can give you the ability to increase the others, as the product of the above is the actual power of the console... It had nothing to do with whether the PS3 is powerful enough for 1080p, of course it is, it was whether you could create games running at 720p and use the cycles released by doing so to draw more stuff.

Last edited by Zardoz on 19-Nov-2007 at 02:05 PM.

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