@MikeB

Quote:

MikeB wrote: Quote: http://service.xbox.com just went into effect in the USA last week to help improve client services and stop this sort of stuff. Taking into account the scale of the problems, I imagine this is mainly a cheaper repair process for Microsoft than direct contact customer support.

Likely it may be but also since an online site is available it'll help keep the clients informed of where their return is, in the process. Microsoft can then move these jobs off of phones and onto repair of consoles. It's this later repair step where if better staffed will help ensure quality and response times.

Now if this is the case or not I refer you back to jtsiren's posting #360. Summary: Microsoft has acknowledged service and console issues. Microsoft has stated they know what the fix is. Microsoft has extended $1B to right the issues. Microsoft has stated they're ramping up repair staff. MIcrosoft has extended warranties. Will this all work? TIME will be the indicator. None of these can realistically happen overnight.

Guy gets mad on his 6th return an writes to Gates..
'Around the time I received the box in which to send back my busted 360, The Consumerist posted the email addresses for Microsoft execs, including Bill Gates. I typed up my case, clicked send, and crossed my fingers. Just two days later I received a call from a rep who was perfectly willing to replace my 360 with a new unit. The turn over time was fast, and so far my 360 has worked flawlessly! Granted, it wasn't in a brand new retail box, so I will never know if it is truly new, but it had no scuffs like my refurbs did, and smelt like a new item'
--- This is an example that the head honchos at Microsoft are getting direct client feedback and are taking direct actions to right these sort of issues. Undoubtably Gates took this up with the proper people under him. Knowning Gates style he'll likely continue to watch how things progress and take actions if he feels they need to be.

@BrianK

Quote:

http://service.xbox.com just went into effect in the USA last week to help improve client services and stop this sort of stuff.

Taking into account the scale of the problems, I imagine this is mainly a cheaper repair process for Microsoft than direct contact customer support.

One of the refurbed XBox 360s which was send to a XBox 360 user (on his seventh console):

Last edited by MikeB on 10-Aug-2007 at 03:53 PM.

@jtsiren

Quote:

and likely that would show during one year warranty anyway

Not per se, drives can become more unstable in course of time. Also continued minor disc scratching over a long period of time can destroy discs suddenly at some point. IMO it's nice PS3 owners won't have to worry about this.

Quote:

You know, things do break. No need to make fun of it outside RRoD IMHO. The statement wasn't silly in itself, what was stupid (and very much something to criticize them for as much as "rumble is so last gen" or whatever silly PR people spew out at times) was that it was used as an attempt to excuse the RRoD which we all know by now isn't normal.

I find it funny you decide to compare unacceptable failure ratess with a non-essential non-advertised feature.

Now, if Sony would have stated Rumble would be a PS3 feature from the start, while in fact it's not actually supported then maybe you would have had a point, but yet again a very minor issue compared to console failures and related issues.

You guys, still going strong, all three or so of you.

@jiyong

Quote:

When you get a refurb that fails with another issue after the total of 1 year, you're screwed.

Of course, but then this could happen with any piece of technology. I've certainly had various consumer electronics devices break on their own, although no console ever has. RRoD is the serious flaw in Xbox 360 that is not normal and thus extended warranty for that (as they get it sorted out hopefully for good) is needed.

I agree there is the added pain of disc scratching some have and I'd like to see Microsoft add warranty to cover that as well. But unless you are affected by disc scratching (and likely that would show during one year warranty anyway), and RRoD is covered by the extended warranty, I don't really see any other issues with Xbox 360 that would be abnormal.

You know, things do break. No need to make fun of it outside RRoD IMHO. The statement wasn't silly in itself, what was stupid (and very much something to criticize them for as much as "rumble is so last gen" or whatever silly PR people spew out at times) was that it was used as an attempt to excuse the RRoD which we all know by now isn't normal.

Microsoft seems to be making headway into improving their system and support. The new Premium's popping up in the wild are promising. Endless quotes in this thread of unsatisfied people are to be expected, because the RRoD issue was/is very real and it will take time to get sorted out. I'm sure we'll see disgruntled people for a year to come even if new machines now coming out would fix the abnormal rate of failures, only because there are still so much older machines out there.

So bash it while you can, if that makes you happy. I'm sure you will still have plenty of time for that EVEN if Microsoft has gotten their act together. Only time will tell (and we need like a year or so) if they nailed the fix.

To recap: Xbox 360 as released and manufactured since 2005 and at least up until July 2007 has a serious overheating-related design flaw. Microsoft mishandled it IMHO until the 3 year warranty extension and the apology. Whether or not they've gotten better since remains to be seen in time. People have every right to criticize them for that and I imagine they will for time to come. Some will, like they have here, use this to further their other agendas as well, fine, Microsoft deserves the crap they are getting.

However, setting agendas aside, what now IMHO needs to happen is Microsoft fix this. For good. That means future manufactured Xbox 360's, any SKUs, getting back to regular rates of failure. Also it means that those who do get RRoD on their older machines and send them to repair eventually get systems back that have the vulnerability fixed for good. Both of these things need to happen ASAP. If they do, well, I guess we can't really expect more and that would be a positive outcome since we really can't change what happened, only expect they make it right. If not, well, let the mud fly.

Last edited by jtsiren on 10-Aug-2007 at 11:44 AM.
Last edited by jtsiren on 10-Aug-2007 at 11:38 AM.

I just sent mine in to Microsoft Australia, and didn't call the US support line, however it was obviously an Indian call centre I was directed to.

Got a confirmation e-mail that they got it. I'll let you know how long it takes.

Haven't read the whole thread, but I reckon it was the firmware update I did online that caused it. I also had only just started tinkering with my wireless connection to get on XBox live with Forza 2. A lot of people were saying that Forza 2 killed their XBox but I was playing that offline for hours at a time without problem.

So I wait, and my XBox live subscription ticks by.

Ok. Going back to my happy place now.

_________________
Leo Nigro, CTO Commodore USA, LLC
Opinions expressed are my own and not those of C= USA.
Commodore/AMIGA "Beautiful, High-Performance, Home Computers for Creativity and Entertainment."

@jiyong
Quote:

jiyong wrote: Quote: BrianK wrote: Note I didn't say the website is the beat all end all answer and everything will be perfect. But, it is showing strides that Microsoft is improving communication. You didn't say that, but you said it as a reply on a post which was mainly discussing these kind of things. So why did you reply like that, because it looked like you were trying to tell us that?

Thanks for asking for clarification. The answer to why I replied like that is in the the verbage of mine you quoted : 'it is showing strides that Microsoft is improving communication'. This clause defined that I was not going to address every issue but instead was showing how 1 of the many points are being worked.

Quote:

Refurbs can have an impact on future warranty issues in this case. Do remember that the 3 year warranty is only for RRoD. When you get a refurb that fails with another issue after the total of 1 year, you're screwed.

With a refurb, at least in the USA, your warranty be it 1 year for any problem or 3 years for RRoD problems are still fully in effect until that time has expired from your purchase date. If I recall correctly the last warranty extension was from 90 days to 1 year for the console and in addition the warranty was extended an additional 1 year after the repair date. So, in effect if one has a non-RRoD issue it's repaired in warranty in 11 months they'd get another 1 year on top or nearly 2 years. So in this case if your refurb failed with another issue after first year 1 year but before the end of the 2nd you're not screwed. Hopefully it was replaced with a refurb because in repair testing it was felt that the refurb would provide better service to the end use then a repaired original.

While giving refurbs is obviously something Microsoft could choose not to do they are in following the electronic industry standards on repair or exchanges. I can't think of any company that guarantees your exchange will always be with a 100% brand new item. For a personal example: HP returned me a refurb notebook manufactured 1 month before my broken one but with my harddrive installed in it. The policy of replacement with refurbs is industry standard. Again criticize Microsoft but please do realize the industry as a whole has the exact same issue as they all allow replacement with a refurb.

Last edited by BrianK on 10-Aug-2007 at 12:58 AM.

@BrianK

Quote:

BrianK wrote: Note I didn't say the website is the beat all end all answer and everything will be perfect. But, it is showing strides that Microsoft is improving communication.

You didn't say that, but you said it as a reply on a post which was mainly discussing these kind of things. So why did you reply like that, because it looked like you were trying to tell us that?

Quote:

Personally, I don't think any electronics company should ship refurbs. Unfortunately, if one's unit cannot be repaired satisfactorially then companies frequently ship refurbs and yes sometimes they may be dated before your unit. At least here the warranty for the device goes by date of purchase so an older unit doesn't impact any future warranty repair/replacement.

Refurbs can have an impact on future warranty issues in this case.
Do remember that the 3 year warranty is only for RRoD.
When you get a refurb that fails with another issue after the total of 1 year, you're screwed.

And remember, "Y'know ... things break".

@MikeB

Failing 360s don't seem to stop the records..
--“Halo 3” Becomes Fastest-Selling Pre-Ordered Video Game in History, Soaring Past 1 Million Milestone

Ad partners - Burger King, Mt Dew, Doritos, 7/11, Pontiac -- Halo3 will be everywhere this Christmas. I have little doubt the current 360 console sale numbers will only go up each month until the holiday.

@MikeB

Quote:

SmartHouse discovered the issue when we visited the Microsoft Australia web site and visited the Xbox 360 support section. Under the problem question Xbox 360: Three red lights flash on the Ring of Light visitors are prompted after reading information on the issue to contact Xbox Customer Support visiting this web site:

Interesting. Now the question begs if a user didn't read the FAQ section and instead just used the email or the phone provided would they be denied service and told to call the USA. Perhaps some lurker here who lives in Australia could give it a try.

@BrianK

Quote:

SmartHouse discovered the issue when we visited the Microsoft Australia web site and visited the Xbox 360 support section. Under the problem question Xbox 360: Three red lights flash on the Ring of Light visitors are prompted after reading information on the issue to contact Xbox Customer Support visiting this web site: http://www.xbox.com/support/contact/http://www.xbox.com/support/contact/ And if you have had no luck fixing the problem you can go to: See http://support.microsoft.com/kb/907534 Here you will find the following instructions. Assistance by phone seven days a week. 1-800-4MY-XBOX, International (direct dial to U.S.): 425-635-7180 Hearing Impaired (TDD device): 1-866-740-9269 or 425-635-7102 Hours of operation (every day): 9:00 A.M. to 1:00 A.M. Eastern Time 6:00 A.M. to 10:00 P.M. Pacific Time The only problem is that for Australians to get access to this service they have to make a long distance call to the US. Microsoft says that if these steps do not resolve the behaviour contact Xbox Customer Support. A Customer Support agent will be able to provide additional assistance or determine whether the console requires a repair.SmartHouse discovered the issue when we visited the Microsoft Australia web site and visited the Xbox 360 support section. Under the problem question Xbox 360: Three red lights flash on the Ring of Light visitors are prompted after reading information on the issue to contact Xbox Customer Support visiting this web site: http://www.xbox.com/support/contact/http://www.xbox.com/support/contact/ And if you have had no luck fixing the problem you can go to: See http://support.microsoft.com/kb/907534 Here you will find the following instructions. Assistance by phone seven days a week. 1-800-4MY-XBOX, International (direct dial to U.S.): 425-635-7180 Hearing Impaired (TDD device): 1-866-740-9269 or 425-635-7102 Hours of operation (every day): 9:00 A.M. to 1:00 A.M. Eastern Time 6:00 A.M. to 10:00 P.M. Pacific Time The only problem is that for Australians to get access to this service they have to make a long distance call to the US. Microsoft says that if these steps do not resolve the behaviour contact Xbox Customer Support. A Customer Support agent will be able to provide additional assistance or determine whether the console requires a repair.

link

@Lou
Quote:

seems the price cut was a move (much like Sony's price cut) to clear out old 360s so they can introduce 65nm models WITH the HDMI port across all skus in September. The HALO edition 360 was confirmed to have the HDMI port already.

It appears in other areas that Premiums with HDMI ports are found on the streets. Microsoft isn't talking about hardware, stupid IMO.

There does seem to be a bit of similarity to Sony's price cut. However, one must consider this cut was nearly 2 years after the launch, nearly if not the longest original pricing on a console ever, not under 1, which is pretty much unheard of.

@MikeB

Quote:

Smarthouse (7 August 2007): "They are also asking Australians who are having problems with the Xbox 360 consoles “Red Ring of Death” problem to call a US support number at their own expense to find a solution to their problem." Fabulous, I wonder what their support would be like if "customer service" wasn't their "focus"....

Check out http://www.xbox.com/en-AU/support/contact/ and they will find Email and Assistance by phone. Why would they need to call the US?

Quote:

Peter Moore: "focus is on customer service and stuff does break"

Smarthouse (7 August 2007): "They are also asking Australians who are having problems with the Xbox 360 consoles “Red Ring of Death” problem to call a US support number at their own expense to find a solution to their problem."

Fabulous, I wonder what their support would be like if "customer service" wasn't their "focus"....

@BrianK

Quote:

So there's obviously people who aren't experiencing 3 months.

Obviously I never insisted this was standard nor being unlucky enought to have 11 consoles break. My main reason for quoting him is that he's a Amigan, there are many people suffering far more severe ordeals when dealing with Microsoft customer support.

Here's an interesting Amiga thread started by him:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=140252

@BrianK

Quote:

You do realize there is many many reports of repairs, exchanges in the USA that are now taking under 2 weeks right?

Reports of 4-8 weeks are pretty common. Although I recently read about someone being happy about his console being repaired in 2 and a half weeks.

Here the story of a NeoGAF poster while today receiving his XBox 360 back after one month of waiting:

"So i set it up on the small t.v, set it the video out to T.V, turn on the console (The big button is all ####ed up btw) and there's no image, so i'm like "I forgot to switch to T.V" but no it was ok, so "Hey maybe it's the T.V, let me try again" so i plug and unplug, nothing, "I'll try another T.V" so i bring the bedroom T.V to the office, set it up, no dice, so "Hey...maybe the yellow thing is messed up, gonna try the component", so i take the 360 to the living room, put it up next to the ps3, set things up, put it to hdtv, all fine and dandy, and turn on the console, no...no image, so i check everything up again, but no, no image.


What the #### is this, i mean seriously what the ####. This #### ain't funny, now the damn video out of the console is broken? Has this happened to anyone of you?

Goddamn man"

Some current replies:

Quote:

You just got a broken 360. It's as simple as that. Same happened to me on my 2nd 360 coming from assistance. I received a refurbished, but broken, 360. Funny enough, the big button was ####ed up on mine as well. I'm afraid u have to call them and do the whole #### all over again.

Quote:

The exact same thing hasn't happened to me, but I did send in my 360 for repairs 4 times, 3 of the times it came back still not fixed. (diosc read errors, and later a lot of freezing.) One of my friends recently sent in his 360, and got it back broken.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=178385


Peter Moore: "focus is on customer service and stuff does break"

Last edited by MikeB on 08-Aug-2007 at 02:36 PM.

http://www.next-gen.biz/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=6748&Itemid=2

It seems the price cut was a move (much like Sony's price cut) to clear out old 360s so they can introduce 65nm models WITH the HDMI port across all skus in September.

The HALO edition 360 was confirmed to have the HDMI port already.

Hopefully we can then put an end to this thread?

Let's not forget Sony's second console did not have the same quality as it's first. The same has happened to MS. Perhaps in their 3rd console, they will have better quality just as the PS3 seems to have better quality than the PS2 so far.

@MikeB

You do realize there is many many reports of repairs, exchanges in the USA that are now taking under 2 weeks right? Of course these people are much much less vocal then those who waited a few months. However, they do exist and likely exist in the forums you're reading.

EDIT samples (cuz you love the one offs)
"... service.xbox.com easy to use....email back took 1 hour.....
...I found the phone easy to use.... time about 10 minues with rep....
...Service rep said box for shipping would take 3 days... it got here the next day...
..people complain about months waiting for their system..... returned working in 10 days..'

So there's obviously people who aren't experiencing 3 months. Seems to be to be more the exception then the rule.

It'd be interesting to see Microsoft, or any company, publish electronic return/repair times for consumers. It'd help us all make choices on which electronic companies we'd prefer. (Myself I got Sony and Microsoft so all the HD electronic gaming)

Last edited by BrianK on 07-Aug-2007 at 11:51 PM.
Last edited by BrianK on 07-Aug-2007 at 11:50 PM.

To quote a fellow Amigan from NeoGAF:

"on the list I should be x2

tho I did have a 3month wait and still no comp from MS"

3 months, or actually anything more than 2 weeks is IMO totally unacceptable. Microsoft due to its monopoly within the market earns enough money to hire hundreds of thousands of additional employees. A pathetic performance and I would say the same thing if this was Nintendo or Sony.

Also IMO people with repeat failures should get priority treatment, 1 week waiting time should be enough for them. But apparently it often takes Microsoft longer than that just to send a coffin.

@jiyong
Quote:

Uhm, how are they going to fix excessive fix times, complaints about older units or half broken refurbished returns with that website?

Note I didn't say the website is the beat all end all answer and everything will be perfect. But, it is showing strides that Microsoft is improving communication.

Recently, have seen Microsoft state that they are staffing up repair staff, commting $1B to fix the problems, and know turn around time is too long. If communication is improved with automation then the labor $ is best placed in the area where it should be hiring the staff to fix the 360s. This, which they commited to already, helps fix excessive repair times and half broken refurbs because the staffing level is raised to a level which better serves the inflow volume of client need in the area it's needed, repairs.

Personally, I don't think any electronics company should ship refurbs. Unfortunately, if one's unit cannot be repaired satisfactorially then companies frequently ship refurbs and yes sometimes they may be dated before your unit. At least here the warranty for the device goes by date of purchase so an older unit doesn't impact any future warranty repair/replacement.