@jiyong

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So, all of a sudden more and more people are getting picky about staying on-topic.

The speculation is well documented here why some people (myself included) have a higher level of tolerance for some offences from certain people than others. Some people just rub you the wrong way more of some just sound like a PR machine too much, some post more than others so they are in for more scrutiny than others... This is not particular to this thread, nor to myself or others who post about, say, MikeB, this happens in many threads with many people for a variety of reasons (e.g. why posts from BBRV are picked apart more than, say, posts from DaveyD). Rarely it is anything sinister or intentionally double standard, you just ignore some people more than others. Personally I have tried to sway many people to stay on topic during the course of this thread, myself included, because lapses do happen. If you think BrianK and Lou should be criticized for going off-topic, fair enough.

In any case, the topic itself - Xbox 360's breaking down - should be juicy enough. PS3 is not and never was the topic of this thread and we just don't want it to turn into another MikeB monologue about PS3 screenshots and news. If he wants to start one more of those, I'm fine with that, but I personally actually would like to discuss (or read others providing insight into) the Xbox 360 failures and stay on topic without having to look for tidbits of info between promo screenshots and the like. If MikeB was genuine when starting this thread, he would agree that the purpose of this thread is not to extoll (or debate) the virtues of PS3. Anyway, I'm personally not interested in another console comparison thread at this time, I think the debate was going nowhere here with just a few people going on and on about the same points (with no furthering of agreement) and pis*ing off the majority of this site - and this is coming from someone who actually has PS3 *and* Xbox 360. If I am not mistaken, so does BrianK as well.

Last edited by jtsiren on 17-Jul-2007 at 10:16 PM.
Last edited by jtsiren on 17-Jul-2007 at 10:09 PM.
Last edited by jtsiren on 17-Jul-2007 at 10:08 PM.

@jiyong

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jiyong wrote: @jtsiren Quote: So... Microsoft having quality woes with Xbox 360 and MikeB posting PS3 screenshots and PR images in a Xbox 360 thread. So, all of a sudden more and more people are getting picky about staying on-topic. But what really amazes me, that you don't criticize BrianK and Lou for going off-topic. @MikeB and Lou Perhaps it's better to open an E3 thread or something. Although I wouldn't be surprised it will get locked after a while.

Cry me a river.
But why would an E3 thread get locked if it does indeed encompass all systems...?

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@Lou Quote: now what big PS3 title is coming out this year? If you want to call Heavenly Sword and Ratchet & Clank small...

LOL! Heavenly Sword - an unproven new franchise, just like Genshi - remember that? Ratchet & Clank is far from a system seller - just a so-so game from the get go. The only "big" games I see coming this year is Half-Life 2: The Orange Box and that's US-only for now and GTA4. Neither are exclusive as the 360 is getting them around the same time.

For the 360, there is Bioshock (which I'd play considering it's origins from the makers of System Shock and Deus Ex), HALO 3 (over-rated, imo) and Blue Dragon (U.S.), Eternal Sonata and Warhammer: Mark of Chaos.

The 360 has a good set of games that appeal to gaming veterans. However, I don't have time for any of those games. Neither do alot of people these days and that's why Nintendo has been so focused on the more casual gaming market.

Either way, the average consumer has no doubt heard about the RRoD but have probably not heard about the 65nm chips in the systems to come. The bad reputation alone will be hard to overcome in the long term. For the longest time, average consumers thought there was a problem with the Wii Remote because people were getting hurt and furniture was being damaged - this is what I heard from non-gamers. Public opinion/perception is an interesting phenomenon. It killed my car of choice prematurely - the Pontiac Fiero.

I will not even mention what Wii games are coming as I'm sure you would consider that WAY OFF TOPIC. It would only depress fanboys of the other two platforms anyway.

@MikeB
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Actually many people, myself and my girlfriend included look forward to them.

Two people does not many make.

about Excite Truck vs. Motorstorm you wrote:
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I and many others disagree.

I would expect nothing less from you. One person does not many make. The games are quite similar, however Excite Truck makes no qualms about being an "arcade" racer where as the overt psuedo-attempt at realism is what holds Motorstorm back in the "fun" department.

Last edited by Lou on 17-Jul-2007 at 01:17 PM.

@jtsiren

Quote:

So... Microsoft having quality woes with Xbox 360 and MikeB posting PS3 screenshots and PR images in a Xbox 360 thread.

So, all of a sudden more and more people are getting picky about staying on-topic.

But what really amazes me, that you don't criticize BrianK and Lou for going off-topic.

@MikeB and Lou

Perhaps it's better to open an E3 thread or something.
Although I wouldn't be surprised it will get locked after a while.

@Lou

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now what big PS3 title is coming out this year?

If you want to call Heavenly Sword and Ratchet & Clank small...

@MikeB

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So far I am most impressed by the lighting, character models, animation and blood. The cover system looks interesting as well, improved upon the way it's implemented in Rainbow Six Vegas.

Which is basically what I said I'm impressed with. I still don't think that it looks as good as the trailer but it looks better than anything else in the market at the moment.

_________________

So... Microsoft having quality woes with Xbox 360 and MikeB posting PS3 screenshots and PR images in a Xbox 360 thread. The PS3 starter pack MSRP is 699 EUR here (300 EUR more than Xbox 360 Premium with two games), $945 USD. Great value! Both my PS3 and Xbox 360 still running fine here...

Business as usual.

@Lou

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Ultimately the investors may change that tune... The ultimate irony would be Microsoft liking the PPC platform so much that the next version of Windows would jump ship from Intel and they release a Xbox PC running Windows as round 3.

I think the investors changing Microsoft in your living room entertainment console would be the wrong direction. Home computing is expanding with online TV and services the 360 is but one way to do this. Microsoft's entertainment division has always been a loss. It's possible you're right but I think the odds are very slim to none.

Microsoft was in the PPC market. NT4.0 had a PPC version.


@MikeB
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IMO like with the numerous dead on arrival cases Microsoft can do some testing before sending out units to retailers.

Each harddrive would have to have the 360 OS and free content loaded before it shipped out. So they were tested already.

PS let's stop the PS3 posts and get back to the 360.. Thanks.

@Lou

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no announcements for Europe yet

Actaully there was an announcement.

60GB PS3 + 2 controllers + Motorstorm + Resistance



IMO a great value package!

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Other than HOME and Little Big Planet (which will flop since casual gamers don't own a PS3).

Actually many people, myself and my girlfriend included look forward to them.

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hey do include Motorstorm with the 80GB model. I played it on my 50" TV in 1080i mode using HDMI. It is not more fun than Excite Truck - a Wii launch title. It looks better, but definitely not more fun.

I and many others disagree.

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I did play Resistance:FOM. Everytime I would die, I would know where I am getting attack from and drop a well-timed grenade and wipe out a bunch of aliens before they fired a shot at me. The game is scripted with no real dynamic play in that sense.

The AI and difficulty gets more advanced later on in the game, but for the best AI try 40 player online multiplayer. At least IMO the AI and game freedom certainly beats Gears of War.

Last edited by MikeB on 16-Jul-2007 at 06:28 PM.

@AMiGR

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Saw the full video. Well, as expected, it doesn't look as good as the CG trailer

Most people seem to agree that they have come very close already. Note that even the introductionary part is all in-game, a developer pauzed the game and zoomed in all the way from the clouds to ground level. BTW Killzone 2 uses 4x full-screen anti-aliasing.





So far I am most impressed by the lighting, character models, animation and blood. The cover system looks interesting as well, improved upon the way it's implemented in Rainbow Six Vegas.

Last edited by MikeB on 16-Jul-2007 at 07:00 PM.
Last edited by MikeB on 16-Jul-2007 at 06:15 PM.

@BrianK

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There's but 4 harddrive manufactures in the world. Obviously bad timing for Microsoft if they're seeing one of those guys not doing their job. It could have just as easily been another console manufacture or a laptop maker.

IMO like with the numerous dead on arrival cases Microsoft can do some testing before sending out units to retailers.

@BrianK

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@Lou Quote: I wonder how much in losses that MS will suffer before abandonning the console business Microsoft already said they're in for a round 3. So we know at least 1 more console is coming.

Ultimately the investors may change that tune...

The ultimate irony would be Microsoft liking the PPC platform so much that the next version of Windows would jump ship from Intel and they release a Xbox PC running Windows as round 3.

Mac on Intel - Microsoft on PPC. Now that is something.

Last edited by Lou on 16-Jul-2007 at 05:31 PM.

@MikeB
There's but 4 harddrive manufactures in the world. Obviously bad timing for Microsoft if they're seeing one of those guys not doing their job. It could have just as easily been another console manufacture or a laptop maker.


@Lou
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I wonder how much in losses that MS will suffer before abandonning the console business

Microsoft already said they're in for a round 3. So we know at least 1 more console is coming.

The Wii will globally outsell the 360 in 8 weeks.
Nintendo made no hardware announcements regarding the Wii. This is important as Neo-Geo games are coming to the Wii and would consume alot of the internal flash memory.

Nintendo will probably have more to say in Tokyo in September for their big annual show which Sony and MS will be a part of also.

This year's E3 was mostly useless and was more trade oriented than consumer oriented.

Their is some Japanese interest in HALO 3. I imagine it will be playable at the Tokyo show as will Super Smash Bros. Brawl, Super Mario Galaxy...now what big PS3 title is coming out this year? Unreal Tournament is probably the biggest but it's not that exclusive (PC version also, 360 in the future).

Other than HOME and Little Big Planet (which will flop since casual gamers don't own a PS3). Also - I found it ironic that Sony made such a big deal about a game with rudimentary graphics (Echochrome) - I'll bet that game looks simply amazing in 1080p.

Another blow was that the $100 price drop on the 60GB model was a clearance sale, not an actual price drop and that the 80GB model is $599 with no announcements for Europe yet. They do include Motorstorm with the 80GB model. I played it on my 50" TV in 1080i mode using HDMI. It is not more fun than Excite Truck - a Wii launch title. It looks better, but definitely not more fun. It's a marginal "value-add" since most owners would get that game anyway and it's sold well among PS3 owners.

I did play Resistance:FOM. Everytime I would die, I would know where I am getting attack from and drop a well-timed grenade and wipe out a bunch of aliens before they fired a shot at me. The game is scripted with no real dynamic play in that sense. The aliens were always in the same place when I'd restart from the last check-point and were easily eliminated upon respawning because you could throw a grenade right where they emerged from last time as you approach and it explodes in the middle of them wiping out the crew of 5 that were about to jump me again. So much for advanced AI.

Honestly, anyone making a FPS today should go back and play the original Deus Ex on the PC. That was a truly dynamic exerience. Multiple ways to get to your target. It felt truly free and open to exploration usually with good rewards in so doing. You could sneak in to buildings from the roof, the main door or an open window or back door. Each entrance presented a different problem to overcome. The path you choose to accomplish your task determined if you use stealth or go all-out shooting away, and you could switch back out at any time and attack from another entrance. It also had a nice level of RPG elements to it in the form of cybernetic upgrades. Truly more of a first-person "adventure".

I think E3 was useful behind the scenes where the big execs from 3rd parties got to meet with the platform holders. You will start to see even more Wii support in the future. Sales of the 360 are stagnating. PS3 sales are consistent...in a not so positive fashion. Wii remains in high demand.

I'm currently playing Resident Evil 4:Wii Edition. I also own and have beaten RE4:GC. The graphics are well and above the GC's letter-boxed 640x360 display for this game. They are true 852x480p widescreen. After seeing this game, I now fully realize that 720p/1080p is not necessary for "next-gen" gaming. The visuals are amazing and shooting has never been easier. The Wii is "the little console that can".

I wonder how much in losses that MS will suffer before abandonning the console business. At some point they may sell it off due to investor pressure. With declining sales, I wonder if their "profitability" target will truly be reached. Who will Peter Moore work for next? Everywhere he goes, profitability goes down (see SEGA).

"EB Games Australia Issues Total 360 Recall

EB Games Australia have issued a recall on their Xbox 360s. Not just their own personal display or demo units. Every single Premium Xbox 360 they had in-stock. Sources within the company have confirmed that two weeks ago (approx June 29) store managers were first asked by Head Office to test every unit in-stock for errors, but were then ordered last week to return their entire inventories of the console, as well as remove all 360 promotional material and dummy boxes from their stores. The recall is believed to be due to a faulty batch of HDDs, as it did not include Core units."

http://digg.com/xbox_360/EB_Games_Australia_Issues_Total_360_Recall

@MikeB

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MikeB wrote: We know this but didn't think Microsoft would acknowledge this, at least not intended for the general public as that would normally mean a recall: "Microsoft has admitted that every one of the 11.6 million Xbox 360 consoles sold in the past 19 months suffers from a design flaw that could cause the device to fail"

Guess you skipped over reading my post #174 where this was admitted to along with fixes that appear to be in place already. Here's a snipped of that last part.
'even though the warranty is for 3 years, that's as much a security blanket, if you like, rather than an expectation. We expect it to be a very good performance going forward, given the corrections we've made in the manufacturing process. ' In the same conference they talk about the changes made to improve the console overall will have a negligible impact on financials.

So it seems that the 360 will remain profitable OR if a price cut comes the impact likely won't lead to major losses for MIcrosoft's gaming divison.

I am actually tempted to pick up one of those Halo 360's instead of the Elite just for the fun of it. I like that color scheme and the HDMI port would be nice to have, the HD space isn't that big of a deal for me (and can be upgraded later anyway if the need arises). But unless they are of the 65nm sort, I doubt I'll bother. I'll likely upgrade to one of those 65nm's when they come out.

Anyway, Halo 3... I missed Halo 2 due to time constraints, but I absolutely loved Halo 1. Looking forward to an HD rematch.

Finish the fight! Woohaa!

(Ahem, that sounded like something BBRV would say... )

@MikeB

Nice, if that really is in-game footage, I am well impressed. I hope it plays as well as it looks.

Any proper videos anywhere? No animgifs, I mean.

Edit: Saw the full video. Well, as expected, it doesn't look as good as the CG trailer and as with every single game I've ever seen so far (both console and PC with all GPUs), the particles look a bit less defined than the rest of the gfx. It still has *nice* lighting and animation and the blood is, well, bloody.

Last edited by AMiGR on 12-Jul-2007 at 11:37 AM.
Last edited by AMiGR on 12-Jul-2007 at 10:58 AM.

_________________

We know this but didn't think Microsoft would acknowledge this, at least not intended for the general public as that would normally mean a recall:

"Microsoft has admitted that every one of the 11.6 million Xbox 360 consoles sold in the past 19 months suffers from a design flaw that could cause the device to fail"

http://www.crn.com.au/story.aspx?CIID=85600&src=site-marq

@MikeB
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Wonder which one will outlast which, the XBox 360 or PS2?

If you're looking for which console outlasts that'd be the Atari 2600. Atari still sells the Atari Flashback II. It is a cut down 2600. Cut down in size and without the cartridge slot. If one has an original 2600 thats dead they can rip out the cartridge slot and solder it into the Flasback and play other 2600 games since the unit is a revised 2600.

@Thread
Xbox360 facts....
Since the Wii and PS3more than 18 million games have been sold more then the PS3+Wii combined. Over 250 360 games released. Attach rate of 5.9 games per console making it the largest attach rate in the industry.

Xbox Live w/ over 7M members projected to reach 10M by June 08. 2 Billion online gaming sessions so far w/ a current rate of 4.3M games per day. Live is the #1 seller of online HD content. Live has over 220M downloads. Users of Live average 1 hour a day active in the service.

@BrianK

Wonder which one will outlast which, the XBox 360 or PS2?

BTW, looks like Nintendo will be releasing a modern version of the Amiga Joyboard!

@MikeB

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As the PS2 has outsold the XBox 360 every month since release I would say third.

Sorry wrong the PS2 fails the test. You did clip the full sentence but didnt read. I will continue to use the Gaming Industry's definition of generations of consoles and even included it -- 'Out of this generation Wii/PS3/360'.

My suggestion is for you to get in sync with the other 95%+ of the gaming world so this sort of thing doesn't have to happen every friggin' time. THank you.