@BrianK

Quote:

Out of this generation Wii/PS3/360.... The 360 has the most consoles on the market, likely to be surpassed by Wii this year. The 360 is still a strong seller and 2nd best seller by most accounts.

As the PS2 has outsold the XBox 360 every month since release I would say third.

Quote:

Likely still And what is this you're concerned Microsoft might lose money? You've continually wanted their downfall this would be a good thing in your eyes.

I think the 6 billion USD wasted on XBox consoles could have been better spend on hiring 200,000 additional developers to make Windows Vista a faster, more efficient and more responsive operating system.

And no, I don't want to see Microsoft fail. I would however like to see them become innovative, resorting to more moral business practises and handling more care towards their products and customers. Microsoft's strenght is IMO mainly marketing.

Quote:

You're actually wrong about that. Sony announced the price pre launch and cut it just before launch. Japan has already had 1 price cut.

I meant recently. Sony USA already hinted to a price reduction.

@MikeB

Again skipping other points as this again is a 360 thread...
Quote:

Seems Halo 3 has taken the back seat on the way to E3.. Microsoft's E3 press conference is widely regarded to have been dissapointing. No surprizes at all, Assasin's Creed probably most impressive multi-plaform PS3 / XBox 360 game being shown.

Most everything at E3 for the 360 had already been announced. So yeah nothing new but I think most anyone paying attention would realize Microsoft wouldn't really have anything new to show. They definitely should have kept a project or 2 under wraps. I think this is again part of the whole industry. We now see games 1-2 years in advance it really loses the surprises that come with conferences. Microsoft and others should learn and announce something cool that'd be around Christmas which we didn't know about. Viva Pinata Mini Games is about the best NEW thing they showed.

As for Halo3, is there any benefit to hyping this game? It's already hyped on it's own. It was great they ended their conference with it because everyone wanted to see it. Undoubtly even if H3 was absent from E3 it will be one of the largest if not the largest selling game this Christmas.

Spartan Green 360 is cool. I have the Halo1 Xbox in translucent green and it was a good seller. Likely the green 360 will be too. I hope it ships 65nm only w/ all the fixes.

Though one announcement for the 360 was good. Disney is supposedly making Blu-Ray only. But 360 owners can get HD Disney movies from Xbox Live so no need for a Blu-Ray drive on the 360 if you need your fix of Disney. And it's now so out before the Blu-Ray versions.

@tomazkid

OK, done for the in-game footage.

@MikeB

Please edit your post and link to those large gif's instead.

_________________
Site admins are people too..pooff!

@BrianK

Seems Halo 3 has taken the back seat on the way to E3..



Microsoft's E3 press conference is widely regarded to have been dissapointing. No surprises at all, with Assassin's Creed probably being themost impressive (multi-plaform PS3 /) XBox 360 game being shown.

The XBox 360 you are talking about seems to just have been an (IMO) ugly Halo 3 themed box (surprisingly to be sold seperately without Halo 3):


However Halo 3 totally got Killzowned by an in-game demonstration.


Killzone 1 was heavy on polygons for a PS2 game, but a single character model in Killzone 2 uses about as many polygons as an entire level did in Killzone 1, according to a developer! The environment is now destructable, enemies behave differently depending on where you shoot them (see them grabbing their foot or arm when you hit them), realistic bleeding, solid animation, amazing physics and hectic simultaneous happenings all around you, etc. A single level of Killzone 2 takes around 2GBs of data.



"The opening was once again fantastic, but we couldn't help but sit there and think, "When are we finally going to see some in-game footage?" The only thing was that we had been looking at in-game footage. As soon as our soldier hits the ground and his gun comes into view, very much like what we saw with the opening to Resistance, we couldn't help but think, "Holy hell, all of that was in-game?"

Kotaku after MS presentation and Killzone 2 in-game demonstration:
"most impressive game I've seen so far at E3."

Check out a HD trailer a Gametrailers.com, a short preview:

http://i10.tinypic.com/6c49k4y.gif

http://i8.tinypic.com/62416dl.gif

http://i8.tinypic.com/4qgegk1.gif

Sony's presentation is due in a couple of hours. Fingers crossed!

P.S, The NeoGAF guys have gone completely nuts, dozens Killzonifying their avatars and posting thousands of comments in a matter of a few hours in reply to the trailer!

Last edited by MikeB on 11-Jul-2007 at 04:31 PM.
Last edited by MikeB on 11-Jul-2007 at 04:18 PM.
Last edited by MikeB on 11-Jul-2007 at 04:16 PM.
Last edited by MikeB on 11-Jul-2007 at 04:10 PM.
Last edited by MikeB on 11-Jul-2007 at 04:07 PM.
Last edited by MikeB on 11-Jul-2007 at 04:01 PM.

@BrianK

Quote:

BrianK wrote: E3 news... Display is showing 4 different 360s. The grey it seems a grey model. Current rumors: a) Lower cost entry to compete against Wii b) Showing off the 65nm Falcon machine c) 65nm + HD DVD built in d) Possibly just a new color

I go for e) A 360 that will fail for sure

XBox 360 problems - Solution provided ?


Quote:

you should let your Xbox run free a surge protector and experience lightning strikes, power surges and brown outs

Jerry

Last edited by AmiGame on 11-Jul-2007 at 01:20 PM.

_________________
- AOS has been ported to ex-86 ! It's called AROS and WinUAE... Or E-UAE on Linux !

- A1XE-G4 up and runing with:
512MB Ram / 200GB and 80GB HardDisks on Sii0680.
AOS4 Final Update / AmiZilla 0.1 Alpha

E3 news...

Display is showing 4 different 360s. The grey it seems a grey model.

Current rumors:
a) Lower cost entry to compete against Wii
b) Showing off the 65nm Falcon machine
c) 65nm + HD DVD built in
d) Possibly just a new color

@MikeB
Quote:

Missing original shipment target by 4.4 million?

Out of this generation Wii/PS3/360.... The 360 has the most consoles on the market, likely to be surpassed by Wii this year. The 360 is still a strong seller and 2nd best seller by most accounts.

Quote:

1 Billion extra in depth due to mass hardware failures?

Likely still And what is this you're concerned Microsoft might lose money? You've continually wanted their downfall this would be a good thing in your eyes.

Quote:

No price drop in 1 and half years despite using the cheapass low quality components?

Approaching 600 days without a price drop the 360 has become the one, and perhaps The, console which has been able to sustain it's launch price the longest. Obviously it's doing what Microsoft is satisfied with; making money per console sold and no price drops were necessary. Undoubtably time, recent quality fixes, and competition cuts will encourage Microsoft to cut their price this year. They have said they know $199 is the sweet spot for consoles so they likely are trying to figure out how to get there.

As for 'cheapass' components that really remains to be seen. The red ring of death seemingly is heat related on the GPU. The GPU isn't 'cheapass'. The only cheap might be the DVD player which some models (I there there are 4 different DVDs now) had issues from 1 of the 4 manufactures. So besides the DVD what has been definitely shown to be 'cheapass'?

Quote:

"We're right where we want to be right now" statement is rediculous

This is not ridiculous. The statement was about market position. Microsoft is currently in 1st place, by end of the year at worst will be in a strong 2nd place, has gained marketshare over the Xbox, has the longest sustained price, makes money on each unit, has the longest warranty, has the highest attach rate ever, has the most games on the market, likely the most exclusives, has a strong, if not strongest, launches coming this holiday, Elites sold faster then expected, Elites to launch in Europe and Japan, and lower cost hardware is on the way. Other companies would only be too happy if they were in this position. This is all good

Quote:

Sony Japan, which hasn't reduced its pricing,

You're actually wrong about that. Sony announced the price pre launch and cut it just before launch. Japan has already had 1 price cut.

@MikeB

Quote:

As for the cheapass components, as I quoted ealier within this thread, that's the insight provided by the Asian component manufacturers. I would consider them to be the experts on this matter.

So, since you want to play this game, which components are cheap-ass? There are two major issues we know about, mainboard warping and the DVD issues. I haven't heard any problems with blown transistors, blown support ICs, blown power supplies or anything like that for that matter, which would indicate "cheap-ass components". There's a major design flaw. Give the "solder melts" story a rest already, the solder cracks. More elastic solder would probably reduce the problem but it would **not** fix it altogether, since it's not what's at fault. Any solder you use *will* crack if subjected to the treatment it gets while bonding a solid component with one of which the shape is changing repeatedly. The warping due to overheating is the issue and that's a design flaw.

I dunno whether the DVD issues are due to price cutting but it's well possible.

Last edited by AMiGR on 10-Jul-2007 at 12:25 PM.

_________________

@jtsiren

Quote:

'm no more blaming Sony for denying a price cut last week

Actually that was Sony Japan, which hasn't reduced its pricing, it was Sony of America which did. Sony Europe is expected to follow soon though. Japan is unknown, but seems unlikely.

Last edited by MikeB on 10-Jul-2007 at 10:48 AM.

@MikeB

Quote:

Blame Microsoft for bringing up the PS3, why I quoted them is because I think the "We're right where we want to be right now" statement is rediculous considering all their problems and greatly missing their targets.

I think they may actually be relatively pleased where they are sales wise, I don't think that is impossible. They may worry about future trends as anyone would of course, PS3 now getting a boost from the pricecut and the warranty issue of course being bad PR (even if good in some ways) for Xbox 360. I don't think anyone was trying to say they are where they want to be regards to quality, they've stated their disappointment themselves - just that they are pleased with the actual sales.

Of course it is possible they are not pleased with the actual sales, but I don't think THAT statement was ridiculous. That's just grasping at straws IMHO and trying to find fault in everything they say. I'm no more blaming Sony for denying a price cut last week, they won't say it out loud beforehand and the PS3 success/lack of success is a factor for Microsoft, so no problem if they admit as much out loud. In fact it is nice for them to admit it. There have been other comments that have been ridiculous - and worse - of course.

Having said that, I think no matter what Microsoft says now, a price-cut is imminent (only a question of how imminent). Anyways, back to discussing the actual quality please issue if anyone has anything new to add. I sure don't, so I'll leave this particular subthread at that. It is now wait and see for Microsoft's next steps.

Last edited by jtsiren on 10-Jul-2007 at 10:15 AM.

@jtsiren

Blame Microsoft for bringing up the PS3, why I quoted them is because I think the "We're right where we want to be right now" statement is rediculous considering all their problems and greatly missing their targets.

As for sales, the PS3 sold on par or better (if Sony's sold-through figures for PAL regions are correct) in the same period of time of availability, this of course at a higher price point. The PS3 has more room for future pricecuts and the heavy blockbusters are getting pretty close now. It will be interesting to follow the news coming from E3. Meanwhile the lowend Playstation product, the PS2 continues to produce strong sales, greatly outselling the XBox 360 globally for every month ever since the XBox 360 hit the market. The PS2 also just received a cost and weight reduced redesign and a price drop down towards under 100 bucks seems feasible for Christmas.

As for the cheapass components, as I quoted ealier within this thread, that's the insight provided by the Asian component manufacturers. I would consider them to be the experts on this matter.

Last edited by MikeB on 10-Jul-2007 at 09:49 AM.
Last edited by MikeB on 10-Jul-2007 at 09:34 AM.
Last edited by MikeB on 10-Jul-2007 at 09:28 AM.

@MikeB

Quote:

- Missing original shipment target by 4.4 million?

Xbox 360 has been selling well compared to PS3 for example. Of course Wii has been the star. I don't see anything "classic" about Microsoft perhaps wanting to see how the price drop affects PS3 before making their own conclusions. OTOH, Sony denied their price drop still last week saying "no plans" (!) so I wouldn't be surprised if Microsoft would also surprise us with a price drop any time. The industry does not, for obvious reasons, comment on price drops beforehand.

I'm sure PS3 will sell better at the new pricepoint. That European reduction better come soon, though - we're now paying what, almost twice as much, as in the U.S. Sony giving us a little love there. Well, maybe Thursday...

Quote:

- No price drop in 1 and half years despite using the cheapass low quality components?

Any real proof of them using "the cheapass low quality components"? I'd say everything suggests a design flaw in the heat dissipation solution in the console, it may manifest itself in different ways (e.g. more susceptible solder due to new environmental regulations kicking in, mainboard warping, DVD drive suffering heat stroke)... but what suggests they are using "cheapass low quality components"? Design flaw is a serious thing no doubt that they are now trying to sort out and we'll see about that, but you just made a pretty big statement there.

PS3 has got nothing to do with this thread - the quality of it maybe in a comparison way, so we all agree PS3 so far is of great quality and lets leave PS3 discussion at that.

IMO Microsoft's repsonse to the PS3 pricedrop was classic:

"We'll see if it makes a difference. It's interesting to note that they've significantly dropped their price in the first eight months while Xbox 360 has continued to sell well at our launch price for more than a year and a half. We're right where we want to be right now -"

- Missing original shipment target by 4.4 million?
- 1 Billion extra in depth due to mass hardware failures?
- No price drop in 1 and half years despite using the cheapass low quality components?

@MikeB

Quote:

Games Digest perspective on warranty and XBox 360 failures: Microsoft’s apology for hardware failings is too little, too late

My take is if Microsoft can get the fixes in by Christmas likely the total impact will be minimal. Summer time is typically the low point in sales Microsoft is holding onto the 2nd most sold console of this generation and has a strong, if not strongest, new launch release for Christmas. If I were Microsoft I'd do a relaunch party advertising newer/faster/better and the longest warranty in the marketplace. Something visual like a move to black on all consoles might be good to help visually segment the updated story. If they wanted to go cheaper change the face plates adding 'falcon' or 'v2' on them.

There are people on both sides of the aisle on the issue and in the end the market will decide. Sales this Christmas will be telling.

Games Digest perspective on warranty and XBox 360 failures:

Microsoft’s apology for hardware failings is too little, too late
http://www.games-digest.com/2007/07/microsofts-ap-1.html

"Marks and Spencers refuses to stock unreliable Xbox 360.

Marks & Spencers have taken the decision to not stock the Xbox 360 because of its 'poor reliability.'

The iconic British retailer has a history of targeting the middle to high end of the consumer market. The last year has seen them expanding the technology departments, normally based above their clothing and food floors.

In an effort to gain market share in this new market for them they are offering a free 2 year guarantee on ALL their technology products. However after examining the reliability of the Xbox 360 and the widely reported number of returns they felt they would not be able to offer this service for the console.

Marks & Spencers are currently stocking Sony PlayStation 3 and the PSP. A spokesman said they are looking forward to stocking the Nintendo DS and Wii when Nintendo are able to guarantee a consistent stock supply."

http://www.playthree.net/2007/07/marks-and-spencers-refuses-to-stock.html

Mark & Spencer has 450 stores located throughout the UK, providing nearly 12.5 million square feet of selling space. Outside the UK, M&S has additionally 192 stores.

@MikeB

Quote:

Yeah very funny, considering you were the first to bring up your PS2 woes in this thread

Let's stop the blame game kid and get back to the 360.

Dean Takahashi comes out on the update for the 360: It includes 65nm GPU along with CPU and yes reduced heat, which they attribute to failures.

"Falcon is the name for the latest internal electronics in the Xbox 360. It will have an IBM microprocessor and an AMD/ATI graphics chip that are manufactured in a 65-nanometer production process. These are cost-reduced chips that do the same thing as their 90-nanometer predecessors, but they’re smaller.
...
With smaller chips, Microsoft gets a bunch of benefits. They won’t generate as much heat. So the risks of overheating — one of the main reasons behind Microsoft’s billion-dollar write-off for repairs and extended warranties — are much lower. The chips may also cost half of what it took to make them before because they use less material and fewer manufacturing steps to produce....
...
It may be some time — a year, maybe two — before it moves on the a 45-nanometer process.
"
==
I think here we're seeing the answer to MikeB's worry about the 3 rings of death
a) New heatsink
b) Reinforcement with glue for 2nd line of defense
c) Motherboard revision
and d) 65nm in testing
perhaps e) new solder but that's going to be a bit harder to get to unless Microsoft admits it.

Microsoft said they've resolved the issues and it appears they are dealing with them. TIME is now the big factor, ~6-9months after Falcon launch, will tell us some inital quality. How that is in 1-2 years time is of course further wait and see.


EDIT2:
EW Console Ranking gives the 360 an A-, and yes even with the Rings of Death issue included.

Last edited by BrianK on 09-Jul-2007 at 07:20 PM.
Last edited by BrianK on 09-Jul-2007 at 07:05 PM.

@BrianK

Quote:

This thread is 360 please stop the PS2 posting. If you want to discuss them please open a new thread.

Yeah very funny, considering you were the first to bring up your PS2 woes in this thread and I'm replying to a moderator of this website.