I'm thinking there is a user in this thread who wants to buy Amiga and is hoping ITEC/KMOS wins so that he can do so and have all the IP.

Last edited by Lou on 27-Jul-2007 at 05:54 PM.

@DoodooHead

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DoodooHead wrote: @billt I agree with you. It is not what we see in the filed court documents, it is what we don't see there. Where is the document proving that Amiga Delaware owns the trademarks?

Has nothing to do with the case in New York.

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Where is the document proving that Eyetech and Hyperion approved the transfer of IP to Itec?

First of all if its a First Secured Credit status issue they dont have to approve it, secondly the only issue is whether its legal to transfer the contract, nothing in the 2001 contract givens Hyperion or Eyetech any right to decide whether AI can sell the IP. The contract transfer was approved by Eyetech when they signed the 2003 contract, the judge will likely decide that Eyetech was signing for the the AmigaOne partners.

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Where is the document proving that Eyetech and Hyperion approved the transfer of IP to KMOS?

Has nothing to do with the case in New York, the only thing they may have rights to approve or disapprove is the 2001 contract and its transfer to KMOS is not part of this subject.

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Where is the document proving that $25,000 was paid to Hyperion within the required time period?

The check dated June 20, 2007 that Hyperion entered into the court papers.

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Where are the documents proving that Amiga Washington was not insolvent?

Hyperion is making an affirmative defense, they must prove that they were insolvent, A(W) doesnt have to prove anything, if Hyperion cant prove it, they were not insolvent, again this has nothing to do with the New York case or this thread. It doesnt matter if AI(W) was insolvent, Hyperion still must deliver the OS to Itec for the 25K per the 2003 contract.

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Where are the documents proving that Amiga Delaware owns anything?

There are several, but again Amiga Delaware isnt part of this case.

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The fact that none of these have been presented, speaks volumes.

The fact the Hyperion enthusiasts wont talk about the New York case in a topic about the New York case and keep bringing up KMOS etc, is even louder.
-Tig

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@Lou

Quote:

Lou wrote: I'm thinking there is a user in this thread who wants to buy Amiga and is hoping ITEC/KMOS wins so that he can do so and have all the IP.

Do you honestly believe some millionaire is on here hoping to buy the OS etc?
-Tig

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@Tigger

Why buy it when you can get it for free?

@Tigger

Quote:

Tigger wrote: @Lou Quote: Lou wrote: I'm thinking there is a user in this thread who wants to buy Amiga and is hoping ITEC/KMOS wins so that he can do so and have all the IP. Do you honestly believe some millionaire is on here hoping to buy the OS etc? -Tig

That depends... How much money does your company have?

@Lou

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Lou wrote: @Tigger That depends... How much money does your company have?

Tigger has said he would mortage his house for extra capital in pursuit of buying the IP I believe. So it would not be just about the money he currently has in pocket.

Last edited by fairlanefastback on 27-Jul-2007 at 07:00 PM.
Last edited by fairlanefastback on 27-Jul-2007 at 06:59 PM.

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@Lou

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Lou wrote: @Tigger Quote: Tigger wrote: @Lou Do you honestly believe some millionaire is on here hoping to buy the OS etc? -Tig That depends... How much money does your company have?

The company I work for? Lots, chance they want to buy AmigaOS 0.00%. If we wanted the Amiga it would have made more sense to get it when Commodore folded and left us (there manufacturer) with lots of there outstanding debt, there was even talk of doing that at the time but it would have cost us money and the numbers didnt look like we would make it back. As for my company, the trademarks, IP and OS are worth more then the 250K or so I could throw into the pot. If thats all Kouri wants for it, I might be interested, but he has AI valued at about 100M right now(which I dont believe its worth), and I appreciate you thinking I have that much, but I dont.
-Tig

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@DoodooHead

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Where are the documents proving that Amiga Washington was not insolvent?

This is something Hyperion will have to prove happened before the transfer to ITEC . . .

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@COBRA

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When they got access to the WarpOS sources

They did? Funny, when did that happen? (While this question may be facetious, working out an answer will show you just how wrong your whole argument is).

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they realized that it was not suitable (e.g. mostly assembly code, very much hardcoded for the hardware they were made to run on, etc.)

You are making this up as you go along, aren't you? Because I certainly haven't seen anyone else make arguments like that. Most importnatly not Hyperion.

Read the appendix --- WarpOS had a HAL, and Hyperion (in the guise of whoever wrote that appendix) was well aware of it.
WarpOS is primitive, sure. But that was well known. It's not hardware dependent --- in fact, it wa to be used for things like the AmiJoe, until that one couldn't get their hardware right.
Sure, it's PPC dependent. Oh noes!

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It's silly to assume that they deliberately underestimated the amount of work by putting in the contract that they will use WarpOS code if they already knew that that code was not suitable. They would have had absolutely nothing to gain from such an act.

You are very naive if you think that.

What they gain from such an act is the contract. The contract that (a) gives them control over the direction AmigaOS takes, and (b) gives them that lovely bankruptcy clause --- which they must have hoped would give them all they ever wanted, for free, when Amiga Inc would inevitably go broke soon after the contract was signed.

Last edited by umisef on 28-Jul-2007 at 06:30 AM.

@umisef

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They did? Funny, when did that happen? (While this question may be facetious, working out an answer will show you just how wrong your whole argument is).

How on earth do you think they could have concluded that WarpOS was not suitable after all? *sigh*

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You are making this up as you go along, aren't you?

Not really. I have the advantage of being part of the OS4 dev/betatester team, thus I know a bit more about what was really going on than outsiders. But it's completely useless to argue with you, because you're so convinced you know everything better than anyone else, even without actually having seen those sources, or being there actually knowing what was really going on.

Hey, what about this people.

If the transfer of rights between the Amiga's wasn't done properly and the new Amiga doesn't own anything and the other one doesn't either then don't you think there might be a clause in the original contract that transfers everything back to Gateway 2000?

If it isn't then I think Gateway 2000 has made a bad contract.

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@thread

Document 58 has been filed yesterday (27-07-07) by CABLE, LANGENBACH, KINERK & BAUER, LLP:

"STIPULATION EXTENDING THE DEADLINE FOR AMIGA, INC.’S REPLY IN SUPPORT OF AMIGA, INC.’S MOTION FOR JUDGMENT ON THE PLEADINGS

The parties listed above stipulate as follows:
1. The deadline for Amiga, Inc. to file its Reply in support of Amiga, Inc.’s Motion For Judgment On The Pleadings (Dkt. 50) shall be extended from July 27, 2007 until July 30, 2007.

2. Amiga, Inc. will grant Hyperion a similar extension of a briefing deadline in the future.
DATED this the 27th day of July, 2007.
CABLE, LANGENBACH, KINERK & BAUER, LLP"

@hatschi

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1. The deadline for Amiga, Inc. to file its Reply in support of Amiga, Inc.'s Motion For Judgment On The Pleadings (Dkt. 50) shall be extended from July 27, 2007 until July 30, 2007.

July 30, 2007 is turning out to be a pivotal day, no? (Kent)

#6

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@COBRA

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Quote: They did? Funny, when did that happen? How on earth do you think they could have concluded that WarpOS was not suitable after all? *sigh*

Well, are you saying that they indeed had this revelation between November 3rd and November 7th, 2001?

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I have the advantage of being part of the OS4 dev/betatester team,

But were you before November 7th, 2001? Because anyone who tells you that WarpOS was found to be insufficient after that date is simply lying....

@COBRA

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COBRA wrote: @umisef Not really. I have the advantage of being part of the OS4 dev/betatester team, thus I know a bit more about what was really going on than outsiders. .

When did Hyperion inform you about the contract for sale back to Itec of the OS, dated April 24, 2003?
-Tig

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We played the first thing that came to our heads, it just happened to be the best song in the world.

@COBRA

Quote:

Not really. I have the advantage of being part of the OS4 dev/betatester team, thus I know a bit more about what was really going on than outsiders. But it's completely useless to argue with you, because you're so convinced you know everything better than anyone else, even without actually having seen those sources, or being there actually knowing what was really going on.

When did Hyperion inform you that that they were done and developers could start to collect their money owed them? That is something that is truely bothering me about the Hyperion revision of events, and I am glad we have someone in the know to clear this up. Thanks.

@all

You people are forgetting that Hyperion could not have recovered their costs with the orignal contract UNLESS Amiga Inc. licensed more hardware and the market grew. Outside of the 1000 OEM copies and a couple of thousand classic-PPC-enabled copies, how could they recover their costs?

Amiga Inc.(W) wasn't around long enough to license more hardware and if KMOS was a legitimate successor(which they are not), certainly didn't license more hardware.

So you can accused Hyperion of hoping for the insolvency/bankruptcy clause, but you can also accuse Amiga/ITEC/KMOS of trying to steal an OS for $25,000 and maximize their own sales of it by not licensing hardware until they had the OS in their cold and dirty fingers.

@Lou

The difference is Hyperion signed a contract that stated they could loose the OS for 25,000 anytime. There is no stipulation in it for any additional hardware licensing requirements on Ainc's part. I don't know who is the legitamate successorbut Hyperion is supposed to give the OS to someone for 25,000 according to contract. I agree they signed a stupid contract, but who does that make stupid? And just in case yoy think Hyperion thought differently about the contract here are some quotes from Ben Hermans (the lawyer) himself:

April 2002:

"And yes, Amiga controls the hardware OS 4 runs on. But the certification process is open, non-discriminatory and non-arbitrary. I wouldn't want it any other way"

"deal with Amiga which includes them lifting the "buy back" option in the OS 4.0 contract. Note that the amount of this "buy back" option is contractually locked in and quite low and that this is not up to our discretion. "

"One major difference: Amiga Inc. has an option to buy the OS 4 intellectual property at a fixed fee. Hence they can retake control of the OS (source-code and all) whenever they feel like it. If they fail to do something with it within a certain amount of time, our right to develop the OS further is revived."


"The whole point of lifting the buy-back option would be exactly to obviate the need to renegotiate all third party licenses. The buy-back option is exactly designed to avoid the type of nonsense we've seen with H&P and Amiga not agreeing on who owns what. So you'd get everything in one package, ready to go. With respect to OS 4.0 not being finished yet, we have a comprehensive list of features we have committed to so this isn't an issue. You'd know exactly what you'd pay for. "

Please not the date these statements were made.

@Lou

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Lou wrote: @all You people are forgetting that Hyperion could not have recovered their costs with the orignal contract UNLESS Amiga Inc. licensed more hardware and the market grew. Outside of the 1000 OEM copies and a couple of thousand classic-PPC-enabled copies, how could they recover their costs?

There was no reason to license more hardware. Itec bought the OS back in April of 2003, hardware was available until June of 2005. If Hyperion had delivered on the 2003 contract and delivered the software, then further licenses may have been an issue, but there was hardware available for two years after the buyback, the issue isnt that there wasnt hardware, the issue is that the software wasnt done and the hardware wasnt very good.

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So you can accused Hyperion of hoping for the insolvency/bankruptcy clause, but you can also accuse Amiga/ITEC/KMOS of trying to steal an OS for $25,000 and maximize their own sales of it by not licensing hardware until they had the OS in their cold and dirty fingers.

Hyperion agreed to the 25K number, if Hyperion had shipped the OS in early 2002 this would have been a non-issue. Complaining that over 3 years after the OS was supposed to be completed the hardware dried up and the OS wasnt done yet, so the 25K buyback was unfair is silly. Hyperion was supposed to be done in March 2002, if they had finished in May or June and blamed that on the sourcecode issue, that would be one thing. When they finish it in December of 2006 and blame it on the source code issue its just crazy. They had all the code by December or January 2005. So a few months late, is understandable, shoot a year late and very few would have been upset. But not completing the OS until over 4 years past the deadline is just silly.
-Tig

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@billt

Quote:

billt wrote: @stew Quote: "Besides, if you paid 5 million dollars for something, would you accept other people running off with your IP without putting up a fight? " How much due dilligence did they do to make sure they had written permission from Hyperion and Eyetech to sell Amiga Washington to Itec/Kmos/Amiga Delaware as specified in the original contract?

First of all this subject is about the Itec-Hyperion contract. The company who is now basically that they didnt follow due dilligence with regard to that contract is Hyperion. Because if Eyetech and AI(W) really didnt approve of the transfer of the 2001 contract to Itec (which is silly to claim on the part of AI(w) but they indeed do say that) then Hyperion committed Fraud in signing the 2003 contract with Itec. The transfer of the contract is the only thing that requires permission of the AmigaOne partners, anything else that occurred is AI's business and noone elses.
-Tig

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We played the first thing that came to our heads, it just happened to be the best song in the world.