@Lou

Quote:

Lou wrote: I still fail to see how Amiga Inc. (whomever) thinks OS4 uses Amiga IP when no Amiga IP was turned over to Hyperion by Amiga (whomever).

Come on Lou, why do you keep going with this tact? Olaf who gave the code to Hyperion after being told it was ok by AI, doesnt claim he owns the IP, in fact the contract between him and Hyperion is pretty clear that AI owns the IP he is providing to Hyperion, Hyperion is paying for the enhancements, not the IP.

Quote:

Other than stamping the Amiga name all over it, which is allowed by the contract, Hyperion owns the OS (if they pay the developers)

No they don't, they didnt get ownership of the IP when Olaf turned it over (read the contract) and they dont get ownership of AmigaOS because they are working on 4.0, read the 11-2-1 contract.

Quote:

and if they decide to re-neg on the sale of the OS, nothing has stopped Amige (je ne sais quo) from developing Amiga OS X on there own, so where are the damages?

Every dime spent on the KMOS effort could (and should) be construed as damages due to the non-delivery of the OS which KMOS was founded to develop. Thats that crazy Garry Hare salary they had to pay, etc, it also might include the money invested if the investors want it back now that they dont have OS 4.0. It will bankrupt Evert and Ben quite easily. The 2003 contract is pretty simple, and its very hard for Hyperion to argue they have completed there end of the contract and Hyperion has helped Itec prove they have completed there portion, if the case goes to court in NY, Hyperion loses probably in a fatal manner.
-Tig

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@Spectre660

Quote:

Spectre660 wrote: The next big question is when do Hyperion go after Amiga Washington ?

AI(W) doesnt still exist unless the judge rules that Itec did not get the 2001 contract, at that point it will spring back into existence, but not until.
-Tig

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@Tigger

Quote:

Tigger wrote: ... There was no reason to license more hardware. ...

Then there might be no reason for any of us to be/stay here...

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Dandy
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@Spectre660

Quote:

The next big question is when do Hyperion go after Amiga Washington ?

That will be a while. Like a ladder, first they will have to win against KMOS/AI.D, then ITEC and if they are still alive then AI.W. . .

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@wolfe

Quote:

That will be a while. Like a ladder, first they will have to win against KMOS/AI.D, then ITEC and if they are still alive then AI.W. .

Hey. Just get them joined in the Washington suit and fight it out.

There can be but one.......... Amiga Immortals.

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@Spectre660

some reading for me

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assignment_(law)

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@Spectre660

Quote:

Spectre660 wrote: @wolfe Quote: That will be a while. Like a ladder, first they will have to win against KMOS/AI.D, then ITEC and if they are still alive then AI.W. . Hey. Just get them joined in the Washington suit and fight it out. There can be but one.......... Amiga Immortals.

Unfortunately the one more likely to loose is Hyperion.

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@wolfe

Quote:

`Unfortunately the one more likely to loose is Hyperion.

in lawsuits 50% of those who expect to win end up loosing.
Its a funny business.

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@Dandy

Quote:

Dandy wrote: @Tigger Quote: Tigger wrote: ... There was no reason to license more hardware. ... Then there might be no reason for any of us to be/stay here...

??? Did you actually read what I wrote? In April of 2003, Itec bought the OS back, in June of 2005, the last new A1 board was sold. Why exactly should Itec or KMOS provide additional licenses to help Hyperion who had yet to deliver a product they had bought over 2 years before the hardware dryed up. In addition, Hyperion wasnt interested in several of the additional hardware options available (Mac, Pegasus, etc) so who exactly in June of 2005 didnt get a license that you think should have?
-Tig

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@Tigger

Hyperion refused to do it on two points.

* No licence / No payments = no deal
* No documentation = no deal

Acill approached Amiga Inc to get license for Pegasus and failed because Amiga Inc did not even response to his email.

AHT approached Amiga Inc and failed to get licence for there setup box,

Troika tried get Licence from Amiga Inc but has not been given one yet.

ACK tried a few times.

ACube Systems tried and was ignored; we even have some email documentation on that.

Anyway Eyetech did have an exclusive right to AmigaOS4 on there AmigaOne hardware, and licensing AmigaOS4 to other hardware might have ended in lawsuit between Eyetech and Amiga Inc.

2001 contract was stupid from the start, and no contract should have been based on it, because all circumstances had changed, what a west of time all this legal fuss is.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 06-Aug-2007 at 04:49 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 06-Aug-2007 at 04:48 PM.

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@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:

NutsAboutAmiga wrote: @Tigger Anyway Eyetech did have an exclusive right to AmigaOS4 on there AmigaOne hardware, and licensing AmigaOS4 to other hardware might have ended in lawsuit between Eyetech and Amiga Inc. 2001 contract was stupid from the start, and no contract should have been based on it, because all circumstances had changed, what a west of time all this legal fuss is.

Thats part of my point. Noone was interested in other hardware until 2 years after the 2003 contract when the A1's dryed up. After waiting 2 years for delivery of the OS, do you really think it was in the best interest of the IP holder (AI) to give a license for new hardware when Hyperion couldnt be bothered to put something they had sold on a CD and send it to AI(D)?
-Tig

Last edited by Tigger on 06-Aug-2007 at 05:00 PM.

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@Tigger

Quote:

Do you really think it was in the best interest of the IP holder (AI) to give a license for new hardware when Hyperion couldnt be bothered to put something they had sold on a CD and send it to AI(D)? -Tig

Yes because now every one heat Amiga Inc for not giving licence to new hardware in this community, because there is no hardware to buy.

If Amiga Inc let Hyperion earn some many on the OS and release it for working hardware, then I don’t think would have been as a big problem to give it back to Amiga Inc, Hyperion has spent 7 years and received nothing that can compensate for the work that has been done on AmigaOS4.

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@Tigger

I'm not sure what you are getting at here:

Quote:

In April of 2003, Itec bought the OS back, in June of 2005, the last new A1 board was sold. Why exactly should Itec or KMOS provide additional licenses to help Hyperion who had yet to deliver a product they had bought over 2 years before the hardware dryed up.

IF you are questioning why any license negotiations would be going on during this period post 2003? or even later:
The AHT stb project is exceptionally well documented in this area, including comments from many involved that terms and conditions for licensing was being discussed actively by AHT and Amiga Inc. I also remember a statement from Hyperion and/or devs that they were not against such an idea either.

Discussion 1st became public on AW here in 2004:
http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=8030&forum=33

Quote:

Hyperion wasnt interested in several of the additional hardware options available (Mac, Pegasus, etc) so who exactly in June of 2005 didnt get a license that you think should have?

ok. Agree on "some". But certainly not all.

Quote:

do you really think it was in the best interest of the IP holder (AI) to give a license for new hardware when Hyperion couldnt be bothered to put something they had sold on a CD and send it to AI(D)?

ok. But again then...why were they negotiating over terms and conditions with AHT in good? faith at this time?

#6

Last edited by number6 on 06-Aug-2007 at 05:13 PM.
Last edited by number6 on 06-Aug-2007 at 05:11 PM.

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@number6

I guess my question is what AHT negotiating with Hyperion or AI (KMOS). What I have been trying to say with my comments is that it makes no sense for AI to find a new home for Hyperion to sell the OS to when Hyperion was supposed to deliver the OS to AI for AI to start selling. AHT may have fallen threw because Hyperion didnt deliver the code to AI, I'm sure thats the issue with the Acube situation. What stopped the AHT project, I read the thread you posted but that information wasnt there.
-Tig

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@Tigger

Quote:

Tigger wrote: @Lou Quote: Lou wrote: I still fail to see how Amiga Inc. (whomever) thinks OS4 uses Amiga IP when no Amiga IP was turned over to Hyperion by Amiga (whomever). Come on Lou, why do you keep going with this tact? Olaf who gave the code to Hyperion after being told it was ok by AI, doesnt claim he owns the IP, in fact the contract between him and Hyperion is pretty clear that AI owns the IP he is providing to Hyperion, Hyperion is paying for the enhancements, not the IP.

Hey, if Amiga (X) can use that excuse for not porting the DE to a Pegasos because Bolton Peck didn't work for Genesi, why can't Hyperion use it?

Nothing was formally delivered.

@Tigger

Quote:

makes no sense for AI to find a new home for Hyperion to sell the OS to

So it makes sense to become enemies whit every one they worked whit?

Quote:

AHT may have fallen threw because Hyperion didnt deliver the code to

You know better Amiga Inc did not own a Company in India at time to do modification for the AHT STB, binary and source code is useless for some that don’t know what it does; I don’t think Fleecy Moss or Bill Mc Even can write code?

Quote:

I'm sure that’s the issue with the Acube situation.to

If Bill Mc Even did know about this before, then he probably say to Acube to go some where else just like hi did whit AHT, Sony and every one else.

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@Tigger

Quote:

What stopped the AHT project, I read the thread you posted but that information wasnt there.

My apologies. I posted the link for the thread on the 1st public mention of the project (AHT stb).
If you like, I can offer you links to comments from the developers involved, since they did post openly on AW about the project as it evolved.
Otherwise...you can use the AW search (upper right of AW front page) or
http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/search.php
and type in for authors "falemagn" "senex" "palpatine".
You'll learn other names as you read those.
You could narrow the search with keywords, but you might miss some pertinent info.

Quote:

AHT may have fallen threw because Hyperion didnt deliver the code to AI,

This is most definately NOT amongst the reasons given by those involved.

Bah! You made me check my links...more recent recap (of many):
start with post #242

Quote:

What I have been trying to say with my comments is that it makes no sense for AI to find a new home for Hyperion to sell the OS to when Hyperion was supposed to deliver the OS to AI for AI to start selling.

Yes. I kinda' gathered your thrust here, and was just checking when I posted back with the question:
Quote:

ok. But again then...why were they negotiating over terms and conditions with AHT in good? faith at this time?

Also...a different project by AHT from July, 2005. Note the comments regarding doing anything again re:OS4 at the time of writing.
http://amigaworld.net/modules/news/article.php?storyid=2415&start=0

Oh, and Troika spoke with AI too, (public on AW) contrary to what some posters have indicated here at AW.

Bit more about the PDA, since that too was obviously one on the list falling in the same time period of 2004. Sure sounds like both AI and Hyperion were on the same page:
Garry Hare:
Quote:

Yes I have OS 4 running on an Amiga and elsewhere (that ought to start a new thread).

Entilzha:
Quote:

" I could tell you, but then I'd have to kill you"

The PDA was even shown running OS4 at Alchimie in 2005 by Stéphane Guillard according to Rose:
Quote:

@BigBentheAussie Quote:How do we know the PDA pic is a mockup. It could already have happened. Stéphane Guillard confirmed at Alchimie last weekend that there is indeed a version of OS4 running on a PDA, but unfortunately could give no further info.

http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=15841&forum=2

#6

Last edited by number6 on 06-Aug-2007 at 07:39 PM.
Last edited by number6 on 06-Aug-2007 at 06:40 PM.
Last edited by number6 on 06-Aug-2007 at 06:37 PM.
Last edited by number6 on 06-Aug-2007 at 06:02 PM.

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@Lou

Quote:

Lou wrote: Nothing was formally delivered.

Actually things were formally delivered, Hyperion paid to have the code delivered by Olaf, there is a paper trail and everything, plus we have Ben telling us all about getting and using the code.
-Tig

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@Tigger

Quote:

Thats part of my point. Noone was interested in other hardware until 2 years after the 2003 contract when the A1's dryed up.

That's not true. I was trying to figure out a laptop solution before the AmigaOnes ran out. When XEs were still available, and before Micros started shipping. And we'd read about other people's experiences trying to license Pegasos a little while before I began my futile laptop quest. This would have been 2003 or maybe 2004. Certainly no later than early 2004. We were pondering how we might deal with any possible obstacles to other hardware entering Eyetech's "Amiga" market, though we weren't at the time really sure what those osbtacles might be or if there even were any. We were willing to work with Eyetech and use them as a distributor if need be. But there were people interested in other hardware long before 2005.

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@Tigger

Quote:

Tigger wrote: @Lou Quote: Lou wrote: Nothing was formally delivered. Actually things were formally delivered, Hyperion paid to have the code delivered by Olaf, there is a paper trail and everything, plus we have Ben telling us all about getting and using the code. -Tig

You are trying to characterize the purchase from Olaf as something Amiga was involved in. As it has been told Amiga could not produce *any* Amiga source code, of *any* kind for *any* version. It was contractually required they produce source code for 3.1, 3.5, and 3.9. They represented they had such code when they did not at all.

Because of this breach Hyperion had to seek getting the code on its own. They were able to get 3.1 sources from Olaf by paying Olaf. Olaf's method of delivery, "formal" or not has nothing to do with Amiga's total and utter lack of any delivery.

Its pretty obvious Lou is talking about Amiga not getting the code to Hyperion as promised not about what Hyperion had to do since Amiga could not hold up their end of the bargain.

Quote:

Lou wrote: I still fail to see how Amiga Inc. (whomever) thinks OS4 uses Amiga IP when no Amiga IP was turned over to Hyperion by Amiga (whomever).

I know you are detail oriented enough for it to be nearly impossible that you missed this or misunderstood this. It would seem its you playing at manipulation for those who are more casual readers. What are you hoping to gain by doing this?

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Last edited by fairlanefastback on 06-Aug-2007 at 08:22 PM.
Last edited by fairlanefastback on 06-Aug-2007 at 08:20 PM.
Last edited by fairlanefastback on 06-Aug-2007 at 08:20 PM.
Last edited by fairlanefastback on 06-Aug-2007 at 08:19 PM.

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