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      /  Itec steps forward in the Big Apple
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Tigger 
Re: Itec steps forward in the Big Apple
Posted on 7-Aug-2007 15:06:01
#841 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 2-May-2003
Posts: 2097
From: Rocket City, USA

@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:

NutsAboutAmiga wrote:

This just shows how presumptuous Amiga Inc is, first they do not deliver the source codes, and then they expect Hyperion to finish on time whit buggy hardware?


NAA, they had all the code within a month or so of signing the contract, blaming the code one a 4.5 year delay is a little silly, if they delivered anywhere in 2002, that would have been a good reason, when you finish years late, blaming it took an extra month to get the source code doesnt make alot of sense. As for buggy hardware, first of all the OS was supposed to be written on PPC boards in classic amigas, because the hardware wasnt going to be done, and Hyperion picked Eyetech to be there partner, why should AI be blamed because there partner was incompetant.

Quote:

Hyperion is forced to pay a developer for source code Amiga Inc should have delivered for free, after spending time waiting on Amiga Inc to deliver in the first place.

As the court documents clearly point out, they got the code from Olaf 1 month after the original contract was signed, I'm sorry, but you can't blame a 4.5 year delay in finishing the OS on a 1 month delay in getting the source code, surely you realize that?

Quote:

Amiga Inc does not care that Hyperion did not earn any thing on the AmigaOS4 development, Amiga Inc does not care for the work developers have done on it, they don’t even care if there where bugs left to cleanup, I can’t see how Amiga Inc is right for the Amiga customers, I hope Hyperion wins whit all my heart.

AI is not supposed to care about whether Hyperion made money, thats not there job. AI wants Hyperion to deliver the OS as they said they would. AI has as many developers as Hyperion (ie 0). Nothing would prevent AI from hiring programmers just the way Hyperion did, and I am sorry, but neither Ben nor Evert bring anything to this effort that will be lost if they are gone.
-Tig

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Tigger 
Re: Itec steps forward in the Big Apple
Posted on 7-Aug-2007 15:15:04
#842 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 2-May-2003
Posts: 2097
From: Rocket City, USA

@Lou

Quote:

Lou wrote:


I think with all the circles you've been doing in these lawsuit threads that you have just better focus on the Efika AROS port... Hey would you consider a Gamecube/Wii homebrew port?



I am so tired of people telling me to focus on the Efika AROS port, I am truly beginning to wish I hadnt offered to do it. First of all, I cannot work on the Efika port at work because

1) The board hasnt arrived
2) If that board had arrived it wouldnt be here in my lab
3) Most important for the AROS crowd, my employer would own the work if I did it here, which is contrary to the entire purpose of the Open Source OS.

-Tig

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number6 
Re: Itec steps forward in the Big Apple
Posted on 7-Aug-2007 15:41:01
#843 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 11259
From: In the village

@umisef

Quote:
Juergen Haage will then go on and tell a tragic story of how Amiga Inc changed the conditions on them at the last minute


Hmm...and Senex on the AHT deal falling apart:
Quote:
Yes, we were interested in licensing the name and OS4, yes we were ready to pay for it, yes we came to agreements with the respective parties - but right when the only thing left had just been to sign and transfer the money, surprisingly Mr. McEwen stepped in with sudden demands and restrictions


Hmm...and John Hodgson, Kent's chief administrative officer on the Kent deal:
Quote:
That deal still has not been completed, in part because Amiga is now offering less money than specified in the initial agreement

Quote:
Hodgson said the city will not accept any deal that comes in under the original $10 million agreement.

Hmm...and the other last minute condition dragged into the deal:
Quote:
"They (Amiga) want to be able to veto any name product that relates to technology," Hodgson said.


Hmm...and Jens Schoenfeld from April, 2007:
Quote:
Bill McEwen, who hasn't been able to give any proof of ownership of the classic Amiga OS in the past 20 months, who wanted to send me contracts "by the end of the week" (that was in february)


Hmm...and irc here has been full of tales over the past year or two about hardware contracts (last step) being on the way.

Interesting that all the above are not just from the category of "oh well, some deals fall apart along the way." These are deals where something apparently changes in the final minutes before pen is put to paper. Odd that.

#6

Last edited by number6 on 07-Aug-2007 at 03:47 PM.

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fairlanefastback 
Re: Itec steps forward in the Big Apple
Posted on 7-Aug-2007 16:00:55
#844 ]
Team Member
Joined: 22-Jun-2005
Posts: 4880
From: New York, USA

@Tigger

Quote:

Tigger wrote:
@Lou

[quote]

I am so tired of people telling me to focus on the Efika AROS port, I am truly beginning to wish I hadnt offered to do it. First of all, I cannot work on the Efika port at work because

1) The board hasnt arrived
2) If that board had arrived it wouldnt be here in my lab
3) Most important for the AROS crowd, my employer would own the work if I did it here, which is contrary to the entire purpose of the Open Source OS.

-Tig



Just think about the $2029 it will put in your pocket.

And even if you can't work on the AROS port there having your mind rested from a less taxing day at work arguing the case will likely leave you more energy to complete the AROS port more quickly when you get home each night.

_________________
Pegasos2 G3 running AOS 4.1 and MorphOS 2.0
Amikit user, tinkering with Icaros VM (AROS)
EFIKA owner
Amiga 1200

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umisef 
Re: Itec steps forward in the Big Apple
Posted on 8-Aug-2007 0:24:55
#845 ]
Super Member
Joined: 19-Jun-2005
Posts: 1676
From: Melbourne, Australia

@number6

Quote:
Interesting that all the above are not just from the category of "oh well, some deals fall apart along the way." These are deals where something apparently changes in the final minutes before pen is put to paper. Odd that.


What I find much more interesting (or rather, telling) is that all the examples you provided, people said "bugger that" and walked away from using the AI IP. H&P instead said "bugger that" and walked away from paying for the use of the AI IP, not from the use itself....

Oh, and I do have a counterexample --- I have a signed license agreement for OS 3.x which was negotiated fairly straightforwardly (IIRC, it only took a single "stop wasting my time" email :), and which if anything was onerous on AI, not me (there are clauses in there which I considered purely sacrificial, i.e. I considered them unacceptable to AI and only put them in so that we would have to "negotiate their removal", giving me the leverage to get rid of some AI clauses I wanted gone...).

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kirka 
Re: Itec steps forward in the Big Apple
Posted on 8-Aug-2007 1:50:32
#846 ]
Member
Joined: 14-Jun-2004
Posts: 94
From: Boston, MA

@Tigger

I hope you have never seen Amiga OS source code, I would not want AI and/or Hyperion to sue you and others for use of their IP. :)

Kirka

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Tigger 
Re: Itec steps forward in the Big Apple
Posted on 8-Aug-2007 2:33:23
#847 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 2-May-2003
Posts: 2097
From: Rocket City, USA

@kirka

Quote:

kirka wrote:
@Tigger

I hope you have never seen Amiga OS source code, I would not want AI and/or Hyperion to sue you and others for use of their IP. :)


I'm not duplicating any function of OS 3.1, so even if I had seen the source code it wouldnt matter. I am basically writing a BSP (Board Support Package) for the Efika so it will run AROS. Think of it as the low level drivers that allow the OS to run on it (and talk to the Ethernet port, etc). Nothing written by AI runs on Efika, and since I am just writing low level drivers for it, there are no worries in that regard as long as I write the code at home on my own time.
-Tig


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Dandy 
Re: Itec steps forward in the Big Apple
Posted on 8-Aug-2007 5:01:28
#848 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 24-Mar-2003
Posts: 3049
From: Cologne * Germany

@Tigger

Quote:

Tigger wrote:
@Lou

...
Again Lou, AI owned 3.1, how much of 3.5 and 3.9 they owned is a big fight that has been going on since H&P did 3.5.
...



Hmmmm - H&P did OS3.5 a year or two before Amino entered the stage, IIRC...

_________________
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Dandy
__________________________________________
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He got his brain accidently - the bone marrow in his back would have been sufficient for him!
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Dandy 
Re: Itec steps forward in the Big Apple
Posted on 8-Aug-2007 5:14:00
#849 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 24-Mar-2003
Posts: 3049
From: Cologne * Germany

@Tigger

Quote:

Tigger wrote:
@Dandy

You still are missing the point.

1993 - Itec buys the OS from Hyperion

1993-1995 - First Itec then KMOS try repeatedly to get Hyperion to deliver what they have bought

Mid-1995 - AmigaOnes run out, Hyperion says we need new hardware, KMOS says where is our OS.

Why exactly should KMOS have given Hyperion need hardware to help them out when they are years late finishing the OS and won't deliver the OS to KMOS despite being paid for it?

-Tig



Errrmmmmmmmm - Tig - are you sure you didn't mix up the decades?

Quote:

Tigger wrote:

1993 - Itec buys the OS from Hyperion



Back in 1993 Commodore still was in business and owned everything Amiga.

Quote:

Tigger wrote:

1993-1995 - First Itec then KMOS try repeatedly to get Hyperion to deliver what they have bought



Naaahhhh - come on - they simply didn't exist at that point of time (or maybe its better to say nobody here knew of their existence)...

Quote:

Tigger wrote:

Mid-1995 - AmigaOnes run out, ...



LoL...

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Dandy
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He got his brain accidently - the bone marrow in his back would have been sufficient for him!
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Manu 
Re: Itec steps forward in the Big Apple
Posted on 8-Aug-2007 8:17:15
#850 ]
Super Member
Joined: 4-Feb-2004
Posts: 1561
From: Unknown

Does anyone know what's up next with the court case.
Are they done filing documents yet ?

_________________
AmigaOS or MorphOS on x86 would sell orders of magnitude more than the current,
hardware-intensive solutions. And they'd go faster.-- D.Haynie

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pixie 
Re: Itec steps forward in the Big Apple
Posted on 8-Aug-2007 8:19:31
#851 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Mar-2003
Posts: 2681
From: Figueira da Foz - Portugal

@Tigger

Quote:
I am so tired of people telling me to focus on the Efika AROS port, I am truly beginning to wish I hadnt offered to do it. First of all, I cannot work on the Efika port at work because

People are just teasing you... You know ,I would also prefer to see the AROS port ASAP then I prefer to see that much talk about a court case. But perhaps my priorities are all wrong and I really should prefer to see you talking as AROS on EFIKA is of no importance at all..

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: Itec steps forward in the Big Apple
Posted on 8-Aug-2007 9:28:06
#852 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 11995
From: Norway

I was Google’ing around for old stuff related topics; I think some you might find this interesting, there whey little information coming from Hyperion on this.

Ralph Schmidt comments on deal with Amiga Inc
http://www.ann.lu/comments2.cgi?view=1004850050&category=forum&start=1&147

Post from Bill Buck(?)
http://www.ann.lu/comments2.cgi?view=1018787779&category=forum&start=51

Frieden brothers talk about OS 4
http://www.ann.lu/comments2.cgi?view=1006875646&category=news&start=51&125

What I find funny is how Frodon argues that MorphOS can be in legal Trouble if some of its developers looked at the Amiga OS source code, it has been written some where that MorphOS team received the source code from “Petro Tyschtschenko” if the source code is useful or not is irrelevant in way Tiger and Frodon argues, MorphOS team won the case against Amiga Inc, suggesting that Hyperion has changes to get out of this mess.

It might where well be that AmigaOS4 was based on AmigaOS sources but not sources Amiga Inc owned they came form Olaf (source code in witch Amiga Inc did not own, this code came from Amiga Technologies / Petro Tyschtschenko and handed over H&P if I’m not mistaken), Ralph Schmidt arguing that there where not many components useful in AmigaOS that way they decided the contract was useless, (suggest that most parts of AmigaOS is in fact rewritten and not based on code in form of 680x0 assembler.)

Amiga Technologies was company that existed before the gateway 2000 owned the Amiga trademarks, and most not be confused by Amiga Inc (D) / Amiga Inc (W) / ITec

MorphOS team did the smart thing bailed out contract, Ben H. made bad judgement when he wrote the contract limiting AmigaOS4 to tiny fraction of available PowerPC HW on the market.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 08-Aug-2007 at 10:34 AM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 08-Aug-2007 at 09:33 AM.

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umisef 
Re: Itec steps forward in the Big Apple
Posted on 8-Aug-2007 11:09:18
#853 ]
Super Member
Joined: 19-Jun-2005
Posts: 1676
From: Melbourne, Australia

@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:
MorphOS team won the case against Amiga Inc, suggesting that Hyperion has changes to get out of this mess.


Huh? MorphOS is an OS, not a legal person.

The MorphOS team may be a legal person, but it has never been involved in any legal disput AFAIK.

Genesi, who at one point were somewhat associated with MorphOS, won a case against Amiga Inc which had nothing whatsoever to do with MorphOS, in which MorphOS did not feature (nor its legality or lack thereof), and which was won essentially through lack of representation on AI's part.


And even *if* the legality of MorphOS had been questioned, and even *if* a ruling had been made that there was insufficient evidence to determine that MorphOS is a derivative, then such ruling would be entirely irrelevant to Hyperion's troubles --- the MorphOS project manager never publicly stated "There is even some original Exec code in ExecSG", nor did the MorphOS project manager contract with Olaf to provide full access to the original AmigaOS code. The OS4 project manager did...

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Tigger 
Re: Itec steps forward in the Big Apple
Posted on 8-Aug-2007 13:40:07
#854 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 2-May-2003
Posts: 2097
From: Rocket City, USA

@Dandy

Quote:

Dandy wrote:
@Tigger

Quote:

Tigger wrote:
@Lou

...
Again Lou, AI owned 3.1, how much of 3.5 and 3.9 they owned is a big fight that has been going on since H&P did 3.5.
...



Hmmmm - H&P did OS3.5 a year or two before Amino entered the stage, IIRC...


Yes, and the arguement since before the Gateway sale to Amino has been how much of 3.5 was owned by Gateway and thus transferred to Amino in Dec 1999. Then we have the 3.9 contract which H&P got to clean up the situation, and it basically made it worse. None of this would have been an issue if Petro had actually read the 3 proposals for 3.5, instead of picking the german company on the way to the airport.
-Tig

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Tigger 
Re: Itec steps forward in the Big Apple
Posted on 8-Aug-2007 13:45:00
#855 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 2-May-2003
Posts: 2097
From: Rocket City, USA

@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:

NutsAboutAmiga wrote:
I was Google’ing around for old stuff related topics; I think some you might find this interesting, there whey little information coming from Hyperion on this.

Ralph Schmidt comments on deal with Amiga Inc
http://www.ann.lu/comments2.cgi?view=1004850050&category=forum&start=1&147

Post from Bill Buck(?)
http://www.ann.lu/comments2.cgi?view=1018787779&category=forum&start=51

Frieden brothers talk about OS 4
http://www.ann.lu/comments2.cgi?view=1006875646&category=news&start=51&125

What I find funny is how Frodon argues that MorphOS can be in legal Trouble if some of its developers looked at the Amiga OS source code, it has been written some where that MorphOS team received the source code from “Petro Tyschtschenko” if the source code is useful or not is irrelevant in way Tiger and Frodon argues, MorphOS team won the case against Amiga Inc, suggesting that Hyperion has changes to get out of this mess.


There has never been a case about MorphOS having AI's IP. As for MorphOS developers looking at the source of Amiga, that entire story is based on a story Dave Haynie was told and basically misunderstood and repeated. Then Petro gave the source code to Ralph became a rumor and it has continued to snowball.
-Tig

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Tigger 
Re: Itec steps forward in the Big Apple
Posted on 8-Aug-2007 14:54:28
#856 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 2-May-2003
Posts: 2097
From: Rocket City, USA

@Dandy

Quote:

Dandy wrote:
@Tigger
Errrmmmmmmmm - Tig - are you sure you didn't mix up the decades?



Absolutely missed everything up by 10 years, I would have fixed it but then everyone who has posted after that and caught the bug would have looked confused, so I left the problem where it was (ie in my post).
-Tig


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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: Itec steps forward in the Big Apple
Posted on 8-Aug-2007 16:00:56
#857 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 11995
From: Norway

@Tigger

Don’t worry about that AmigaOS situation has been messed up for almost 14 years now and counting

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abalaban 
Re: Itec steps forward in the Big Apple
Posted on 9-Aug-2007 7:38:12
#858 ]
Super Member
Joined: 1-Oct-2004
Posts: 1109
From: France

@Tigger

Quote:
None of this would have been an issue if Petro had actually read the 3 proposals for 3.5 [...]


I wasn't aware of that Can you say from who came the two other proposals ?

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AOS 4.1 : I dream it, Hyperion did it !
Now dreaming AOS 4.2...
Thank you to all devs involved for this great job !

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Tigger 
Re: Itec steps forward in the Big Apple
Posted on 9-Aug-2007 11:06:30
#859 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 2-May-2003
Posts: 2097
From: Rocket City, USA

@abalaban

1) Group led by Kermit from Nova Design

2) Group led by Ralph Schmidt of MorphOS fame

-Tig

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kirka 
Re: Itec steps forward in the Big Apple
Posted on 9-Aug-2007 12:41:01
#860 ]
Member
Joined: 14-Jun-2004
Posts: 94
From: Boston, MA

@Tigger

I hope all goes well with your project.

Kirka

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