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      /  Itec steps forward in the Big Apple
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Tigger 
Re: Itec steps forward in the Big Apple
Posted on 11-Aug-2007 18:39:55
#881 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 2-May-2003
Posts: 2097
From: Rocket City, USA

@Swoop

Quote:

Swoop wrote:
With no funding from AInc what can people expect. It's a sign of the state of the Amiga market. I'm sure even you would agree that if Hyperion('s sub-contractor's) had been able to work on OS4 full time it would have been done quicker.

AI didnt fund H&P either, yet they didnt take 5 years to deliver either 3.5 or 3.9.

Quote:

According to the court submissions, the same ownersrhip issues as 3.5 & 3.9.


No, the core OS (exec for example) has never had ownership issues before 4.0, we've had external libraries, etc, but never a piece of the OS that if removed the OS would not boot, but now we do.
-Tig

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Tigger 
Re: Itec steps forward in the Big Apple
Posted on 11-Aug-2007 18:44:02
#882 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 2-May-2003
Posts: 2097
From: Rocket City, USA

@kirka

Quote:

kirka wrote:
@Tigger

How can you compare OS 4.0 to earlier updates? Versions 3.9 and earlier run on different hardware. Versions 3.9 and earlier were all updates on the same CPU and custom chips. OS 4 had to be rewritten for a different processor, motherboard, and custom chips.


Because it was a significantly smaller change and it took significantly longer. Absolutely 3.9 ran on different hardware, it also ran on more hardware, in fact it ran on 10 different models on over 40 motherboard variants with different custom chip sets (AGA, ECS and OCS) and different CPUs 68K-68060, which are significantly more different then the G3 & G4 that are the only PPC that OS 4 runs on at the moment.
-Tig

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Tigger 
Re: Itec steps forward in the Big Apple
Posted on 11-Aug-2007 18:48:01
#883 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 2-May-2003
Posts: 2097
From: Rocket City, USA

@Turrican3

Quote:

Turrican3 wrote:
I think that the reimplementation of Exec for PPC CPUs alone would be more than enough to qualify OS4.0 (not to mention the dependencies to the custom chips now gone forever) as the most important update to AmigaOS since the 2.0/A3000 days.

I think that probably qualifies as the funniest post of the day, and seeing as its Saturday, we might vote it the funniest post of the week. I dont think Exec-SG makes the top 100 list of cool new features added in the history of the Amiga. The Custom chip dependencies have basically been gone since the days of 3.0, its great for Hyperion that people dont believe that, but its basically true as things like Draco and the other clones show.
-Tig


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kirka 
Re: Itec steps forward in the Big Apple
Posted on 11-Aug-2007 20:06:33
#884 ]
Member
Joined: 14-Jun-2004
Posts: 94
From: Boston, MA

@Tigger

All Amigas prior to 4.0 ran on the same processor 680X0 family.

OS 4 runs on a different processor family.

Our opinions differ. Maybe a poll can decide this.

Kirka

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Samwel 
Re: Itec steps forward in the Big Apple
Posted on 11-Aug-2007 20:14:35
#885 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 7-Apr-2004
Posts: 3404
From: Sweden

@Tigger

Damn you must really hate Hyperion.. I thought you where level-headed before..

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[SOLD] µA1-C - 750GX 800MHz - 512MB - Antec Aria case

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fairlanefastback 
Re: Itec steps forward in the Big Apple
Posted on 11-Aug-2007 20:55:30
#886 ]
Team Member
Joined: 22-Jun-2005
Posts: 4886
From: MA, USA

@Tigger

Quote:

Tigger wrote:
@Turrican3

I think that probably qualifies as the funniest post of the day, and seeing as its Saturday, we might vote it the funniest post of the week. I dont think Exec-SG makes the top 100 list of cool new features added in the history of the Amiga. The Custom chip dependencies have basically been gone since the days of 3.0, its great for Hyperion that people dont believe that, but its basically true as things like Draco and the other clones show.
-Tig




Tigger, try as I may, I don't see any way to look at this except from the point of view that you are mocking someone else's opinion.

Last edited by fairlanefastback on 11-Aug-2007 at 08:56 PM.

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Amikit user, tinkering with Icaros VM (AROS)
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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: Itec steps forward in the Big Apple
Posted on 11-Aug-2007 21:21:06
#887 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 12795
From: Norway

@Tigger

ecs ocs aga are all based on the same technology, it dose not take lots of changes, most os components depends timing ciaa/ciab nothing else, draco computers does have cia, and draco dose not have normal kickstart roms.

amigaos is not optimized for 060, support is for 030 and 040 is done using setpatch, by simple exception handler ( trap instructs ), for some one that know asm it no work at all to do.

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Turrican3 
Re: Itec steps forward in the Big Apple
Posted on 11-Aug-2007 22:46:00
#888 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 20-Jun-2003
Posts: 386
From: Italy

@Tigger

Quote:
I think that probably qualifies as the funniest post of the day, and seeing as its Saturday, we might vote it the funniest post of the week.

It's just my opinion, there's no need for this sarcasm.
You might agree or disagree with that, it's absolutely fine for me, but a phrase like this shows no respect for other people's point of view, I'm afraid.

Quote:
I dont think Exec-SG makes the top 100 list of cool new features added in the history of the Amiga.

Never said that.
But I still think that a full kernel rewrite, being the core of an operating system, shouldn't be dismissed as trivial, as you seem to imply.

Quote:
The Custom chip dependencies have basically been gone since the days of 3.0, its great for Hyperion that people dont believe that, but its basically true as things like Draco and the other clones show.

It's been a long time and I may not recall correctly everything, but wasn't Draco running some kind of customized AmigaOS?
Besides that, I understand you're a programmer, so you should know far better than me that "hacking" an operating system to circumvent some requirements (in our case, Amiga's custom chips, whatever they are) and cleaning its source code from any (custom) HW dependency are two completely different things.

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Tigger 
Re: Itec steps forward in the Big Apple
Posted on 11-Aug-2007 23:39:48
#889 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 2-May-2003
Posts: 2097
From: Rocket City, USA

@Samwel

Quote:

Samwel wrote:
@Tigger

Damn you must really hate Hyperion.. I thought you where level-headed before..


Sam, what implies I hate Hyperion. I think OS 4.0 is late, I think its not as significant update as previous updates I have been around for. We can argue that point if you want, but thats not solely my opinion, Carl, Dave and others have said much the same, do we all hate Hyperion in your opinion and none of us are level headed?
-Tig

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Tigger 
Re: Itec steps forward in the Big Apple
Posted on 11-Aug-2007 23:44:31
#890 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 2-May-2003
Posts: 2097
From: Rocket City, USA

@kirka

Quote:

kirka wrote:
@Tigger

All Amigas prior to 4.0 ran on the same processor 680X0 family.


Yes that is true, but AmigaOS would run on everything from a 68000 to a 68060, OS 4 doesnt run on the whole PPC family as say Mac OS would do.

Quote:

OS 4 runs on a different processor family.

Which part of my post implies that I dont understand that?
-Tig

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Tigger 
Re: Itec steps forward in the Big Apple
Posted on 11-Aug-2007 23:51:59
#891 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 2-May-2003
Posts: 2097
From: Rocket City, USA

@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:

NutsAboutAmiga wrote:
@Tigger

ecs ocs aga are all based on the same technology, it dose not take lots of changes, most os components depends timing ciaa/ciab nothing else, draco computers does have cia, and draco dose not have normal kickstart roms.


Don't think you are correct at all about the kickstart roms btw, it does have CIAs, and you honestly havent compared the 3.0 RKMs to the 2.0 RKMs if you think it didnt take alot of changes when we debugged the transition to AGA support, and I am sorry saying OCS and ECS are the same tech might be slightly correct, though we had to get 1.3 ROM to get ECS working (it plus HD boot support are some of the major enhancments in the 1.3 ROM), but AGA was a huge leap in tech for the chips, plus of course that led to much easier independent displays with first things like SAGE and its successors/competitors which basically we are using on 4.0.

Quote:

amigaos is not optimized for 060, support is for 030 and 040 is done using setpatch, by simple exception handler ( trap instructs ), for some one that know asm it no work at all to do.


Where did I say it was optimized for the 060?
-Tig

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AmigaHeretic 
Re: Itec steps forward in the Big Apple
Posted on 12-Aug-2007 4:52:05
#892 ]
Super Member
Joined: 7-Mar-2003
Posts: 1697
From: Oregon

@Samwel

Quote:
Damn you must really hate Hyperion.. I thought you where level-headed before..


Maybe he just really thinks AInc could have done it better in less time, you know like they have with AmigaOS5 and with that Arena thing... oh and with that AmigaNowhere(tm).

_________________
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Swoop 
Re: Itec steps forward in the Big Apple
Posted on 12-Aug-2007 9:15:23
#893 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 20-Jun-2003
Posts: 2162
From: Long Riston, East Yorkshire

@Tigger

Quote:
No, the core OS (exec for example) has never had ownership issues before 4.0, we've had external libraries, etc, but never a piece of the OS that if removed the OS would not boot, but now we do.
-Tig


Only because exec was in rom (hardware), and OS4 was made hardware agnostic.

Both 3.5 & 3.9 had their rom's patched, because there was no new hardware produced, hence no way to upgrade the hardware roms.

_________________
Peter Swallow.
A1XEG3-800 [IBM 750FX PowerPC], running OS4.1FE, using ac97 onboard sound.

"There are 10 types of people in the world: those who understand binary, and those who don't."

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Swoop 
Re: Itec steps forward in the Big Apple
Posted on 12-Aug-2007 9:21:38
#894 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 20-Jun-2003
Posts: 2162
From: Long Riston, East Yorkshire

@Tigger

Quote:
Sam, what implies I hate Hyperion. I think OS 4.0 is late, I think its not as significant update as previous updates I have been around for. We can argue that point if you want, but thats not solely my opinion, Carl, Dave and others have said much the same, do we all hate Hyperion in your opinion and none of us are level headed?
-Tig


How many of those people, as influential in Amiga history as they were, have used OS4. Have you yourself used OS4. I have an A1200 and my A1 next to each other, and I know which one I would rather use. Please, don't knock it till you've tried it.

_________________
Peter Swallow.
A1XEG3-800 [IBM 750FX PowerPC], running OS4.1FE, using ac97 onboard sound.

"There are 10 types of people in the world: those who understand binary, and those who don't."

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Swoop 
Re: Itec steps forward in the Big Apple
Posted on 12-Aug-2007 9:32:16
#895 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 20-Jun-2003
Posts: 2162
From: Long Riston, East Yorkshire

@Tigger

Quote:
Yes that is true, but AmigaOS would run on everything from a 68000 to a 68060, OS 4 doesnt run on the whole PPC family as say Mac OS would do.


Mainly because of a) a License, and b) different bios/hardware.
Whilst there were different 68000 processors use with Amigas, the supporting hardware was not drastically different, all produced by the same designers.
That cannot be said for PPC motherboards, being produced today. Different designs, different support chuips, and different bios.
Hyperion have never said that OS4 could not be made to run, and relatively quickly on other PPC processor/boards, but that they could not so it within the requirements of their license aggreement.

_________________
Peter Swallow.
A1XEG3-800 [IBM 750FX PowerPC], running OS4.1FE, using ac97 onboard sound.

"There are 10 types of people in the world: those who understand binary, and those who don't."

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wolfe 
Re: Itec steps forward in the Big Apple
Posted on 12-Aug-2007 10:36:56
#896 ]
Super Member
Joined: 18-Aug-2003
Posts: 1283
From: Under The Moon - Howling in the Blue Grass

@all

This thread is way off track . . .

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kirka 
Re: Itec steps forward in the Big Apple
Posted on 12-Aug-2007 14:02:54
#897 ]
Member
Joined: 14-Jun-2004
Posts: 94
From: Boston, MA

@wolfe

Yes, it has gone off track.

@all

Anybody have Itec's physical address? Website address?

Thanks,
Kirka

Last edited by kirka on 12-Aug-2007 at 02:03 PM.

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Seer 
Re: Itec steps forward in the Big Apple
Posted on 12-Aug-2007 14:36:49
#898 ]
Team Member
Joined: 27-Jun-2003
Posts: 3725
From: The Netherlands

@wolfe

Indeed. Interesting tho it is, back to topic, and/or start a new thread about erm.. all the other stuff.

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number6 
Re: Itec steps forward in the Big Apple
Posted on 12-Aug-2007 16:11:21
#899 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 11540
From: In the village

@kirka

Quote:
Anybody have Itec's physical address?

Hmm..well last time @fairlanefastback had an issue, he wrote to Hakia in order to reach Dr. Pentti Kouri. The issue was later addressed after the recipient at Hakia informed Dr. Kouri of the mail.

Since then Pentti Kouri's address has appeared on this site many times, and many people have written to this address.

fairlandfastback:
Quote:
You should email this to penttikouri AT earthlink DOT net


Or you could look at the Hakia website for a valid address for Lu Pat Ng, who signed the Itec doc talked about here.

Good luck!

#6

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Tigger 
Re: Itec steps forward in the Big Apple
Posted on 12-Aug-2007 17:11:03
#900 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 2-May-2003
Posts: 2097
From: Rocket City, USA

@AmigaHeretic

Quote:

AmigaHeretic wrote:
@Samwel

Quote:
Damn you must really hate Hyperion.. I thought you where level-headed before..


Maybe he just really thinks AInc could have done it better in less time, you know like they have with AmigaOS5 and with that Arena thing... oh and with that AmigaNowhere(tm).


I think lots of people could have done a better job. I'll state catagorically that if they had paid Bernd for 5 years to rewrite the OS and given him the source code it would be in better shape then it is now. The same for Sinz or Carl or dozen of others. Saying someone did better then AI isnt glowing praise. Eyetech delivered better hardware then AI too, remember how that worked out.
-Tig

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