@umisef

Quote:

Uhm, you concluded. I agreed to disagree.

I apologize, back when we had that discussion I thought you finally understood that your points like lack of WarpUp compatibility, lack of JIT were not a requirement (as it was clearly stated in Annex I. that JIT may not be ready for 4.0, and WarpUp compatibility was not even mentioned) and that even if they were required it would have been met by update 3. I thought we have come to this agreement since you did not present any valid arguments against this. My mistake.

@Dandy

Quote:

IIRC, the Permedia2 chip on my CybervisionPPC has Altivec support - are you now saying I can't make any use of it?

Only certain PPC models have an Altivec unit, namely the G4 range of CPUs from Motorola/Freescale, and the G5 range of CPUs from IBM (IBM call it VMX). Also the new PA Semi chips have it, and the CELL, but not graphic chips.

Last edited by COBRA on 14-Aug-2007 at 09:43 AM.

@Dandy

Quote:

IIRC, the Permedia2 chip on my CybervisionPPC has Altivec support - are you now saying I can't make any use of it?

I think you are not recall correctly.

Quote:

Tried to fix broken quotings - in vain...

Just put another quote open tag before the first one.

Last edited by Chip on 14-Aug-2007 at 09:51 AM.

@COBRA

Quote:

5. Secondly their contract was for a completely different hardware, as an addon to classic Amiga hardware, thus their effort estimation can hardly be accurate for what turned out to be the AmigaOne (

It may not be the 1st time I state that but .....

In order to believe in the Escena-A1 back in late 2001 one would require a lot of ....... mmmmm.... let's just say naivity

This may have been an argument if Hyperion had complained about it in 2002 demanding a new contract, but they never did.

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@Kronos

Quote:

This may have been an argument if Hyperion had complained about it in 2002 demanding a new contract, but they never did.

How can you be so sure, that Hyperion did not try to re-negotiate the contract with AInc? They probably tried many times and have hit a brick wall, like most companies who tried to negotiate any deal with AInc (including several companies wanting to develop hardware for OS4)... much the same way Hyperion tried to resolve the current issues out-of-court, offering binding arbitration and other solutions, which AInc rejected, which would have been much better for both companies, and especially for the Amiga community/userbase...

@COBRA

Quote:

How can you be so sure, that Hyperion did not try to re-negotiate the contract with AInc? They probably tried many times and have hit a brick wall,

In that case (which appears to me to be pure conjecture, with no justification for the "probably"), they should have taken the hint, and stopped.

What nobody should ever do is to go "Hey, you know, this contract --- it's kinda outa date. Things have changed. We should renegotiate", then be told "no, bugger off!", and walk away thinking "Oh, great, we didn't get the contract renegotiated, but we will just act as if we did, and when the other side demands we fulfill our end, we just say 'things have changed too much, obviously you cannot possibly expect us to hold up our end of the deal'".

It's quite simple --- if you don't have a contract to use somebody's IP, you either get a contract, or you don't use the IP.
If you *do* have a contract to use somebody's IP, and you no longer like the terms of the contract, you either get a new contract, don't use the IP, or learn to live with the terms.

There are no other choices. In particular, unilaterally deciding that you don't have to live up to your end of the deal, yet are still going to use the IP for your own benefit, is not an option.

Yes, we may very well see the whole 2001 contract declared null and void (although the affirmation in 2003 makes that unlikely, IMHO) --- but that would just mean that Hyperion ends up with an unusable (due to its taintedness) OS4, and Amiga Inc would end up with OS3.x, but no OS4. Literally nobody involved in the legal dispute wants that, which is why literally nobody has suggested declaring the contract null and void.

@COBRA

Quote:

COBRA wrote: @Kronos Quote: This may have been an argument if Hyperion had complained about it in 2002 demanding a new contract, but they never did. How can you be so sure, that Hyperion did not try to re-negotiate the contract with AInc? They probably tried many times and have hit a brick wall, like most companies who tried to negotiate any deal with AInc (including several companies wanting to develop hardware for OS4)... much the same way Hyperion tried to resolve the current issues out-of-court, offering binding arbitration and other solutions, which AInc rejected, which would have been much better for both companies, and especially for the Amiga community/userbase...

Why re-negotiate? Just drop the contract before you begin . . .Ooops, to late.

Did AInc have the capability (legally) to license new hardware? Eyetech was given the hardware license under contract. The same bad contract.

After the 2003 contract, why re-negotiate? 25K gets a copy of the OS . . .

Since when do SUITS care about a community? ? ?

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@COBRA

Quote:

COBRA wrote: @Dandy Quote: IIRC, the Permedia2 chip on my CybervisionPPC has Altivec support - are you now saying I can't make any use of it? Only certain PPC models have an Altivec unit, namely the G4 range of CPUs from Motorola/Freescale, and the G5 range of CPUs from IBM (IBM call it VMX). Also the new PA Semi chips have it, and the CELL, but not graphic chips.

Don't forget the Gamecube and Wii's cpus...

@Chip

Quote:

Chip wrote: @Dandy Quote: IIRC, the Permedia2 chip on my CybervisionPPC has Altivec support - are you now saying I can't make any use of it? I think you are not recall correctly.

I will have a look in the specs when I'm back home in two hours...

Quote:

Chip wrote: Quote: Tried to fix broken quotings - in vain... Just put another quote open tag before the first one.

I did - the number of "open quote" and "close quote" matches - but it still refuses to work...

Last edited by Dandy on 14-Aug-2007 at 02:20 PM.

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@Dandy

I don’t think your 603/604 cpu has altivec at all, altivec is not graphic chip feature, and you can use altivec unless your program or driver is coded to make use if it, for example if play a movie whit “mplayer for G3”, on “AmigaOne whit G4”, then I do not magically get altivec optimization, you need the “mplayer for G4” to get altivec optimisations, and the OS needs to support altivec in order to save the sates of powerpc registers.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 14-Aug-2007 at 03:51 PM.

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@umisef, wolfe

You have to ask yourself the question, why Hyperion ever even considered to take up such a project in the first place, with such a small chance of earning any income in such a market. Neither Hyperion, nor Eyetech entered into this deal hoping to make millions of bucks, they did it simply because of their love for the Amiga platform and their determination to keep it alive. Obviously there woulc have been much more rewarding things to spend their money on. The only mistake they made was to pick the wrong partner, Amiga Inc. who turned out to be a pain in the #ss and impossible to deal with. Unfortunately it was not a matter of choice who they pick as the partner, there were only 2 choices: they either make a deal with Amiga Inc and give the Amiga platform a chance for the future (and taking the very high risks that go with it), or they don't make a deal with them, and let AInc flush whatever is left of the Amiga IP down the toilet. From what I know so far they have a very good chance to finally free OS4 from Amiga Inc's chains and make it a success, and the risks they have taken have a pretty good chance of paying off.

@COBRA

Quote:

The only mistake they made was to pick the wrong partner, Amiga Inc. who turned out to be a pain in the #ss and impossible to deal with.

ok. But don't underestimate just how coyote ugly MAI Logic was as a "choice".

#6

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@COBRA

You do realize there is also a good chance they will loose their @$$ off in court, right?

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@COBRA

Quote:

COBRA wrote: @Tigger Quote: Actually as Bernd has pointed out several times, they actually havent delivered what they were contracted to do at this point. Actually, in our long discussion about this we concluded that they have completed what they were contractually asked to do by December 2004.

Of course we didnt actually conclude that, and I think if we look at the 5 bullet points at the front of Annex I, you are going to have alot of trouble arguing your case especially with a December 2004 date. In addition, if we look at the 5 bullet points that start Annex I, we see the AmigaOne mentioned quite clearly so this Escena excuse that is currently being used, should go away as well.

Quote:

They were forced to enter into these contracts because of Amiga Inc's failure to secure and deliver that source code to Hyperion. Therefore any argument against the progress of OS4 development can simply be directed towards Amiga Inc's failure to provide their part of the deal.

So now you believe the 3.9 developers they contracted with directly missed there goals and thats what made the OS late? They got the source code for Exec, exec took over a year to boot, can you explain how that fits into your theory?
-Tig

Last edited by Tigger on 14-Aug-2007 at 09:14 PM.

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@Dandy

Quote:

Tried to fix broken quotings - in vain... Just put another quote open tag before the first one. I did - the number of "open quote" and "close quote" matches - but it still refuses to work...

That is because of how the quoting levels work. Currently I believe you can only quote to 2 levels. More than that results in your [quote] block showing in the post.

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@COBRA

Quote:

COBRA wrote: @umisef, wolfe You have to ask yourself the question, why Hyperion ever even considered to take up such a project in the first place, with such a small chance of earning any income in such a market. Neither Hyperion, nor Eyetech entered into this deal hoping to make millions of bucks, they did it simply because of their love for the Amiga platform and their determination to keep it alive.

Eyetech entered into the deal because they could make $300 a unit, Hyperion entered into the deal to get control of the OS and an eternal trademark license when AI went down. Neither company entered into the deal for the love of the Amiga platform.
-Tig

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@COBRA

Quote:

You have to ask yourself the question, why Hyperion ever even considered to take up such a project in the first place, with such a small chance of earning any income in such a market. Neither Hyperion, nor Eyetech entered into this deal hoping to make millions of bucks, they did it simply because of their love for the Amiga platform and their determination to keep it alive. Obviously there woulc have been much more rewarding things to spend their money on. The only mistake they made was to pick the wrong partner, Amiga Inc. who turned out to be a pain in the #ss and impossible to deal with. Unfortunately it was not a matter of choice who they pick as the partner, there were only 2 choices: they either make a deal with Amiga Inc and give the Amiga platform a chance for the future (and taking the very high risks that go with it), or they don't make a deal with them, and let AInc flush whatever is left of the Amiga IP down the toilet.

Would anyone care? I mean, there is not much else left than old source code, obsolete patents and the name. Only the last is worth of something.

But as a whole there was always from the beginning chance to ignore Amiga Inc and write missing pieces from scratch. It does not mean you have to write everything yourself: you can always license technology from other developers (Picasso, Reaction, FFS2, SFS, RoadShow, USB stack, AHI, various drivers & datatypes etc) and this is how it is done already.

When considering original intuition and graphics libraries were already obsolete and mostly junk, bcpl ridden dos and exec written in assembler, it could be said Hyperion gave too much weight for original source code. It is nice to have but was it really worth of it?

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@wolfe

Quote:

You do realize there is also a good chance they will loose their @$$ off in court, right?

Sure, there's a chance for that too.

@Tigger

Quote:

Which is the real problem, in 2003 they should have said we are selling the OS to Itec for 25K + XXXXX for additional issues out of our control (buying code from Olaf, etc), they didnt, and so now asking for more money or different terms isnt really possible.

But why should they have asked for more money?
Yes they should have asked for a new contract when the Escena became a failure.
I believe (I hope) they tried and probably got a oral agreement that this would be no
problem in the future. Not a wise move we see today.

There was always said that they would recoup their development cost by selling
OS4 and just paying Amiga Inc a licence for each copy sold. It was never meant
that Amiga Inc should buy it back and then Hyperion get nothing but the $25,000.

What Amiga Inc is doing now simply wrong. They're practically trying to steal
money from Hyperion. In effect stopping them from earning money from the
development.

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@Thread

Now when this thread has passed 1000 posts

please continue in this thread

locking this one.

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