@stew

Quote:

My point is we all tend to play favorites. If it is ok for some to miss projections by years why not all then?

Who is saying its ok for some exactly?

Quote:

We have had more than our share of vapour in the Amiga community. Boxer, AmiJoe, Shark, ect... Ack just looks like a natural fit in Amiga land

Maybe people are fed up and not so easily going to believe anymore. What used to fit in maybe no longer does.

_________________
Pegasos2 G3 running AOS 4.1 and MorphOS 2.0
Amikit user, tinkering with Icaros VM (AROS)
EFIKA owner
Amiga 1200

@fairlanefastback

Thanks for the correction.

Still I can't quite believe the mess that Amiga Inc has got itself into?

TrevorDick

_________________
No, I don't need no reason, I'm just breezin'

@stew

Were DCE and bPlan the same entity ? In the aftermath of Phase5 I didn't keep up with all the developments. Fortunately I never had any trouble with my boards. Everything I heard about broken Pegasos and Genesi leads me to believe that they try very hard with customer support. That is another subject though.

Boxer was shown publicly many times, at least photographs were shown several times in Amiga magazines. ACK won't show photos of PowerVixxen: we don't know why.

Quote:

Ack just looks like a natural fit in Amiga land and at least as far as I know has not taken prepayments.

To echo fairlanefastback's comments: who said that this is OK ? Maybe we are just fed up Amigans who aren't going to stand by and watch all these broken promises and hollow boasts any more.

I think ACK did take pre-payment for one of the boards he was going to fix. I don't recall the exact details so I'm loathe to attempt to quote them but I'm sure that a search of AW will reveal all.

If you read through this thread you will see that there have been many times when ACK could have responded to valid questions but instead chose to pursue promoting other things. It's not like we haven't given him a chance to get his defence in. He is the one who posted that "boards will be going out at the end of the week" but only one made it. If there is a hole, ACK has dug it himself.

@koan

Quote:

Were DCE and bPlan the same entity ?

I might not be 100% correct with this, but someone will surely correct me if I'm wrong

To put it shortly:
-DCE has (some of) the equipment that earlier belonged to Phase5
-bPlan has (some of) the people that used to work for Phase5
-bPlan made the Pegasos 1 & 2 board with DCE's equipment

So they're both linked somehow to Phase5, but to each other only by customer/service provider relation.

@Tigger who said Quote:

Sure Troika's hardware doesnt work (remember it was Bernd and I pointing out the issues with the "working" motherboard they showed)

I don't wish to derail this thread (and so close to the deadline), but I am incredibly curious about your statement. AFAIK, no one had seen Troika's hardware well enough to have a clue whether it worked or not. If it was known that their "working" hardware was not really, then that would certainly explain their silence since then (I thought it might have been a license issue, if they weren't a fraud). Got a link handy, or at least a rough date & more details?

Last edited by ChrisH on 07-Aug-2007 at 05:35 PM.

_________________
Author of the PortablE programming language.
It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue...

@ChrisH

Quote:

ChrisH wrote: @Tigger who said Quote: Sure Troika's hardware doesnt work (remember it was Bernd and I pointing out the issues with the "working" motherboard they showed) I don't wish to derail this thread (and so close to the deadline), but I am incredibly curious about your statement. AFAIK, no one had seen Troika's hardware well enough to have a clue whether it worked or not. If it was known that their "working" hardware was not really, then that would certainly explain their silence since then (I thought it might have been a license issue, if they weren't a fraud). Got a link handy, or at least a rough date & more details?

I seem to remember something about circuit paths taking right angle turns for one and that that supposedly would never work according to some.

_________________
Pegasos2 G3 running AOS 4.1 and MorphOS 2.0
Amikit user, tinkering with Icaros VM (AROS)
EFIKA owner
Amiga 1200

@ChrisH / Fairlanefastback / others,

Please take the Troika hardware questions to another thread.

_________________
~
Everything you say will be misquoted and used against you..
~

@koan

Quote:

ACK won't show photos of PowerVixxen: we don't know why

Maybe we do. He have said he put a lot of his money, time and efforts to Eyetech and MAI. Then he put a lot of money, time and efforts to create those PowerVixxens but he couldn't get OS4 license from A.inc. Maybe he's not a millionaire and run out of money. Now he's making 68k emulator to make those boards useful. So it's an honest question. Would you or anybody here make such photos to please few individuals when you can't sell your devices to anybody at all still ? It doesn't make any difference if those things exists or not because he couldn't sell them anyway. The only people we can blame is A.inc and not anybody else. (Well because I don't know him personally I'm only guessing.)

_________________
Rock lobster bit me. My Workbench has always preferences. X1000 + AmigaOS4.1 FE
"Anyone can build a fast CPU. The trick is to build a fast system." -Seymour Cray

@ChrisH

Quote:

ChrisH wrote: I don't wish to derail this thread (and so close to the deadline), but I am incredibly curious about your statement.

This thread is one of them, if you want to talk about it, lets open another thread.

Troika Amy05 thread

-Tig

_________________
We played the first thing that came to our heads, it just happened to be the best song in the world.

@Tomppeli

Quote:

Tomppeli wrote: @koan Quote: ACK won't show photos of PowerVixxen: we don't know why Maybe we do. He have said he put a lot of his money, time and efforts to Eyetech and MAI. Then he put a lot of money, time and efforts to create those PowerVixxens but he couldn't get OS4 license from A.inc. Maybe he's not a millionaire and run out of money. Now he's making 68k emulator to make those boards useful. So it's an honest question. Would you or anybody here make such photos to please few individuals when you can't sell your devices to anybody at all still ? It doesn't make any difference if those things exists or not because he couldn't sell them anyway. The only people we can blame is A.inc and not anybody else. (Well because I don't know him personally I'm only guessing.)

Something smells fishy, and it ain't AROS mascot... ACK AFAIsK has set a deal with Amiga Inc to provide the Next Generation Amiga (tm), two systems, to be more precise... yet you say they hae difficulties in getting a license from A INC!? It might well be the case where the left hand know nothing about what right hand does, but... it's a bit far fetched.

_________________
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@Tomppeli

Quote:

It doesn't make any difference if those things exists or not because he couldn't sell them anyway.

If they don't exist it does make a difference.

You might want to look at Hatschi's timeline of when promises were made versus when broken. Also why not sell PowerVixxen running Linux, that was supposedly one claim that it already ran Linux. That could have helped cash flow a little and shown the world that the firm does not just deal in vaporware.

_________________
Pegasos2 G3 running AOS 4.1 and MorphOS 2.0
Amikit user, tinkering with Icaros VM (AROS)
EFIKA owner
Amiga 1200

@Tomppeli

You can't copy a circuit design from a photograph. A board like this would have to be double sided at least, if not multi layer. A photograph would not be enough to make a copy. There would be tracks under chips, firmware in programmable devices and drivers that could not be copied from a photograph. Showing photos of an accelerator card would in no way stop you from selling it as a viable product.

Indulge me a moment, how much do you think it costs to develop something like PV ? We're talking board design, prototypes, test kit (scopes etc), developers kits for FPGAs (can be very expensive), software drivers, developing test software, initial production run set up costs, manual printing, packaging, administration, etc etc. Let's say US $100,000 plus a minimum 1 man year as a very optimistic estimate. ACK is a one man company, our best information is he does these things in his spare time. Without plenty of up front money there is no way one man can do all this. It stands to reason, without a photo or demonstration to prove he did manage it; the chances are he didn't.

Quote:

The only people we can blame is A.inc and not anybody else.

If ACK failed to get a licence for PV from AI then that was his mistake in not getting something firmly agreed in writing before developing PV.

@Tomppeli

From what I understand, thats a pretty good guess in my opinion. Adam needs AInc to fund some money to keep things moving forward. We know how well AInc is with that part of any deal.

_________________
Hate tends to make you look stupid...

Since the unofficial deadline has now passed, I have made the following new thread:
ACK proven untrustworthy

_________________
Author of the PortablE programming language.
It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue...

@sundown

Quote:

sundown wrote: @Tomppeli From what I understand, thats a pretty good guess in my opinion. Adam needs AInc to fund some money to keep things moving forward. We know how well AInc is with that part of any deal.

If ACK needs Amiga money to ship two boxes back, one to Kneedeep and one to Ivan its probably time to instead borrow $40 from a buddy so you can ship back that which does not belong to you at the least no?

Last edited by fairlanefastback on 09-Aug-2007 at 12:33 AM.

_________________
Pegasos2 G3 running AOS 4.1 and MorphOS 2.0
Amikit user, tinkering with Icaros VM (AROS)
EFIKA owner
Amiga 1200

@fairlanefastback

If I recall, he did say he was waiting for parts as well, best to ship back working systems. Some parts can take a long time to track down & find. I know, I was the production component engineer for a medical company. Just doesn't make sense to send back 1 & not the others otherwise. Its the one thing no one has any control over.

_________________
Hate tends to make you look stupid...

@sundown

http://tinyurl.com/2dk7j9

Quote:

ackcontrls wrote on July 8th @kirka and everyone, A bunch of stuff is getting shipped out this week: 1) Chris's board will go out on Monday, and he should have it on Tuesday or Wednesday. 2) I'm just waiting on a few case parts for Ivan's machine that were damaged when the machine was shipped to me, but he'll have it this week. 3) Kneedeep's board will go out around mid-week. 4) Cash flow has improved and the issue with Jens will be finalized within a couple weeks. Adam

Dismissing the issue of broken promises as you do, declaring "best to ship back working systems" for a moment...

These case parts for Ivan's machine, they hold up Kneedeep's board how?

These case parts for Ivan's machine, what ultra specialized case are you envisioning Ivan has? They can't make the machine non-functional. Ship the machine back and we can take up a community collection to help Ivan get a new case if it comes to it. Jeez.

Now back to you deciding that its "best to ship back working systems". No I'm sorry whats best is what the owners want done with their stuff.

Would you mind if I borrowed your car and when you asked for it back I ignored you and kept driving your car anyway (it'll save wear and tear on mine - what the heck right). You'd call the cops. They'd do something for sure because its a felony. Now these boards may be small potatoes in comparison both monetarily and legally but its still wrong. And the greater sympathy should be with the victims IMHO.

Last edited by fairlanefastback on 09-Aug-2007 at 06:19 AM.
Last edited by fairlanefastback on 09-Aug-2007 at 06:17 AM.
Last edited by fairlanefastback on 09-Aug-2007 at 06:14 AM.

_________________
Pegasos2 G3 running AOS 4.1 and MorphOS 2.0
Amikit user, tinkering with Icaros VM (AROS)
EFIKA owner
Amiga 1200

@fairlanefastback

You think flaming me is going to help them get back their boards? I can't make comments now because you don't agree or like what I say? If you make wrong assumptions about me, then you surly must be making wrong assumtions about others as well. Making a deadline is foolish, it signifies an end time. The desired end time is when everyone gets their boards back. not August 8th. I feel sorry for you if you think you can shame a person by posting threats & hatred. Despite what you think, the ack threads did nothing to help the situation, you can pat yourself on the back all you want. Human nature is to go in the other direction, you smack me, I'll smack you back, thats real life. I have nothing more to say on this issue, this thread is just butt ugly & its a reflection on everybody, guilty by association, including me. What a shame we all forgot how to get along together.


Adam, if you're reading this, you need to finish what you promised or at least tell the parties in private what the holdup is about.

_________________
Hate tends to make you look stupid...

@sundown

Quote:

Making a deadline is foolish, it signifies an end time.

Let us not forget that ACK set their own deadlines, we did not do it for them. Once they broke those deadlines, all we have been doing is trying to seek what is a REASONABLE time to wait for their action before declaring it failure. I think giving a month for something that was supposed to happen within a week was reasonable.

August 8th was just that, a set date that was pretty much agreed to by many people as to how long to wait for ACK's delivery before making conclusions. I mean, we just tried to give ACK time to make good on their promises and wait for the word on that to reach us before reaching conclusions on whether or not they did what they promised to do... Do you think conclusions shouldn't have been made ever? Should we have waited less or more? What do yo suggest, we just leave it be?

Same with the September 15th deadline, it is just something that I found reasonable to put on something that ACK/Amiga Inc. announced ready this summer. It is an attempt to be reasonable. I think mostly we have been - determined and persistent perhaps, to the point of dislike by yourself for sure, but I think reasonable.

These threads and people's comments could have been FAR worse and some might argue the facts of Hatchi's list would warrant far worse from the public than has been going on in these threads.

@sundown

Quote:

sundown wrote: @fairlanefastback You think flaming me is going to help them get back their boards? I can't make comments now because you don't agree or like what I say? If you make wrong assumptions about me, then you surly must be making wrong assumtions about others as well. Making a deadline is foolish, it signifies an end time. The desired end time is when everyone gets their boards back. not August 8th. I feel sorry for you if you think you can shame a person by posting threats & hatred. Despite what you think, the ack threads did nothing to help the situation, you can pat yourself on the back all you want. Human nature is to go in the other direction, you smack me, I'll smack you back, thats real life. I have nothing more to say on this issue, this thread is just butt ugly & its a reflection on everybody, guilty by association, including me. What a shame we all forgot how to get along together. Adam, if you're reading this, you need to finish what you promised or at least tell the parties in private what the holdup is about.

I didn't flame you. Nor did I say anything about you not being able to make comments. I didn't make any deadline, why are you speaking to me about deadlines? What is that all about? ACK made self imposed deadlines, why are you taking anything out on me for this? ChrisH is the one saying August 8th, not me, and in defense of him he set it as a *personal* deadline. Are you in charge of a deadline for himself to trust ACK in the future or not? Why are you attaching me to this August 8th thing? What is that all about?!?

You have determined human nature to be a negative reaction rather than a positive one by default and if it is negative you excuse giving in to it then? Additionally this situation should not have occurred in the first place anyway. Rise above and do the right thing, the thing that should have been done in the first place. Thats what adults are supposed to do.

Asking you how you would feel if you were in a similar situation as Kneedeep or Ivan or how Chris was is not flaming you. I'm sorry that you read it that way. And I do hope you at least have equal sympathy for Kneedeep and Ivan then at the least if not more as I do. I also take some exception to the fact that you seem to forget that I have been asking that we all be open to rebuilding trust with ACK based on any positive actions it undertakes.

_________________
Pegasos2 G3 running AOS 4.1 and MorphOS 2.0
Amikit user, tinkering with Icaros VM (AROS)
EFIKA owner
Amiga 1200