@pixie

i never mentioned anything about any bounty. and that's the end of my communication with you.
this discussion is pointless and won't lead anywhere. yes, it's personal, don't try to read anything into this that ain't there, just ignore my post, like i always have done with yours.

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@Chip
I wasn't asking for x11 now was I? I have on of the best implementations, mind you...

What I said was, if the purpose of the bounty is building Firefox for ALL Amiga like systems, giving a bounty to a tied solution doesn't make any sense...

I'm all for recognition Andrea's work, but bounty goals goes far beyond an X11 implementation.

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@umisef

By using base relative addressing of course.

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@pixie

Quote:

also because it would only be available for OS4

The bounty conditions might be unrealistic, because the might deepens on other ported to do that, it might way more work, and it might also be that depends on new features of AmigaOS4, for example dynamic .so files, maybe other things to that for be complicated to do on OS3.x

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@spotUP

Please don't read it as if it was something personal against you because it wasn't. There's a line of discussion, and I answer towards it, not towards you specifically . Go over the thread and you'll see that.

Yourself says it ain't there on your post, so extrapolate that it just is a sum of it. will I acknowledge all or just the tail of discussion? Tough decision...

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@itix

Then I guess you need move the code as well, duplication.

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@afxgroup

Good work, man ! Keep it up !

_________________
AmigaOS or MorphOS on x86 would sell orders of magnitude more than the current,
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@NutsAboutAmiga

Perhaps it wasn't meant to be easy... Aloowing Firefox for all Amiga like systems would bring much expertise needed for other ports I assume.

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@umisef

Quote:

umisef wrote: The huge advantage of allowing for this kind of thing, however, is that the copy-on-write works just as well for global and static variables. Unlike AmigaOS shared libraries, linux ones can use such variables to their heart's content without worrying about things breaking. And given that even the standard C library has numerous examples implying static variables in provided functions, that's worth a lot.

The only major difference between amiga shared libraries and unix shared libraries is that on amiga function names are translated in LVO numbers at compile time and on linux they have to be translated to addresses at load time. (That's also why I like amiga shared libraries because in the end they will always load faster).

All other tricks applied to unix shared libraries could also in the end be applied to amiga shared libraries. Remember that in the first unix versions shared libraries were hard linked to a certain start address and that you got in trouble if two shared libraries had overlapping address space.

Unfortunately the compiler support is not present for doing global variables in amiga shared libraries but there is no fundamental reason why a compiler could not automatically add the global variables to the libbase and address them relative to this pointer. Every time a program opens a library, a new set of global variables could be allocated and if an API for accessing the MMU is available even copy-on-write could be used.

greets,
Staf.

@CygnusEd

Quote:

I think, I should write some words about my new Cygnix here: I'm recompiling the whole project to achieve these targets: * Better performance. As a first step I use now newlib instead of clib2. It's faster now, but still not fast enough. Now the server must be optimized. * Reduce conflicts with other unix ports and with the OS4-SDK. * Use a common way to compile/configure all parts of cygnix.

I remember X11 being slow, so I just loaded Abiword back up to refresh my memory. Now, it is slow, but maybe not unusably slow. So if you do speed things up slightly, I think it might be a bearable firefox environment.

I remember talking to you privately about the ramiga+m problem.. i.e. when you switch to x11's screen, it leaves an "m" in any window accepting text input if you have one open... did you manage to fix this?

Secondly.. I think once we get Firefox, we're going to want to use the clipboard a lot! Is clipboard support planned?

There seem to be several people talking here about Amiga Shared Libraries as though they know the implementation and its restrictions.

Please bear in mind that you haven't seen it yet and when it is released to the public, it might turn out to be very different from anything that you could dream of on an OS3 system.

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tony

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@tonyw

Quote:

There seem to be several people talking here about Amiga Shared Libraries as though they know the implementation and its restrictions.

Can't speak for others, but I was talking about the loaded-at-runtime and shared-between-users libs as present in 3.x. The thing that has commonly been referred to as a "shared library" for decades...

If someone, somewhere now wants to bring out something new for AmigaOS and call it "shared libraries", well, my advice would be to rethink the name, or be faced with a lot of confusion and misunderstandings.

@umisef

Quote:

umisef wrote: @tonyw Quote: There seem to be several people talking here about Amiga Shared Libraries as though they know the implementation and its restrictions. Can't speak for others, but I was talking about the loaded-at-runtime and shared-between-users libs as present in 3.x. The thing that has commonly been referred to as a "shared library" for decades... If someone, somewhere now wants to bring out something new for AmigaOS and call it "shared libraries", well, my advice would be to rethink the name, or be faced with a lot of confusion and misunderstandings.

I believe that they were referred to as *NIX style shared-objects, not shared libraries. It should ease porting of open-source software greatly.

Hans

Last edited by Hans on 14-Jul-2007 at 02:51 AM.

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@afxgroup

As far as the AmiZilla bounty is concerned- it requires a native OS4 and native MorphOS version as well as OS3 one- so obviously, we would happily share the bounty with you (and the other devs you mention), so we could all then claim the bounty together! And of course, if OS4 devs help with the OS3 version, they will get a greater share of the bounty too...

As for those complaining about X11- be glad that you're getting FireFox running on X11! A native GUI would be nice, but a lot of work, especially when you consider there is no documentation on how to do it- you'd have to ask questions on mozilla.dev.platform for every function call, or reverse the Windows/X11/GTK layer code (or preferably the the QNX Photon code). I don't know about the Windows code- but the X11/GTK code is awful to read!
And the AmiZilla FAQ states:
Quote:

Q: What GUI Interface kit will AmiZilla use? Many people love different ones like MUI, Reaction, ClassAct. Also Mozilla has it's own too right? Many people swear by the their favorite one and don't like the others. A: What I would like to see happen with this issue is similar to what Holger Cruz did with the Miami TCP/IP stack. When Miami first came out it required MUI but later Hoger gave users the option of using several different GUI's, they installed their favorite one and that was it. I would very much like to see this happen with AmiZilla too, ultimately it will be up to the coding team though. In order to stay compatible with Mozilla's Themes system they may have to port Mozillas own GUI Toolset though.

So X11 should be ok for bounty. Work could be done on a native one later of course.

Ants
AmiZilla Team Coordinator

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- Ants

@Ants

Quote:

I don't know about the Windows code- but the X11/GTK code is awful to read!

wasn´t there an x11 emulation library?compiled x11 apps had a MUI gui.With this Amifig (xfig) and XV was ported.it Is not perfect so why not improbe this library instead.Once it´s completed a GTK++ an WxWidgets port shouldn´t be difficult to implement

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@umisef

Quote:

If someone, somewhere now wants to bring out something new for AmigaOS and call it "shared libraries", well, my advice would be to rethink the name, or be faced with a lot of confusion and misunderstandings.

If you are referring to the AmigaOS 4.0 unix style shared objects we've implemented, they are called "shared objects". Their main reason is to ease portability, they make turning some things into shared libraries easier because they have a private data segment and better import/export possibilities.

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@Rogue

Quote:

If you are referring to the AmigaOS 4.0 unix style shared objects we've implemented, they are called "shared objects". Their main reason is to ease portability, they make turning some things into shared libraries easier because they have a private data segment and better import/export possibilities.

Do you know if afxgroup made use of this feature with his x11 firefox port?

@afxgroup

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And may the AmigaGuide you!

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@jahc

not at moment.. but Friedens Bros know all my work much better...

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@Rogue

Heh, you've joined AW.net exactly 4 years ago. Happy anniversary!