@Helge & all

This is getting ridiculus. The community doesn't own the Amiga, it never did. It always was and always will be owned and produced by companies. We, the community, are just consumers and vote with our wallets. With the size of our community, we don't represent a large enough product demand to dictate anything. All we can do is hope that they will find some kind of profit in delivering what we want. Don't like it? Tough.

As for the whining about how Amiga Inc. treats Hyperion, what makes you think Hyperion would be so innocent? First of all, most of the work on AmigaOS4.0 has been done by contractors, not Hyperion. Secondly, who do you think told Amiga Inc. during all these years "only two more weeks now(TM)"? For christ sake, Hyperion didn't just make this promise to Amiga Inc, they had even signed a contract that made them legally obligated to deliver within a certain period of time. Yet Amiga Inc. are the ones people keep blaiming, like it would somehow be possible for Amiga Inc. to hurry the development time.

Sure, Amiga Inc. has had their problems of delivering too, like the t-shirts, employee salaries and all that. But then, what people seems to forget is that maybe they wouldn't have had these problems if Hyperion would have delivered as promised? Think about all the missed business opportunities that Amiga Inc. may have planned for that we may not even know about and now never will.

Now, from what can be told of the information that has been made available, it seems that Hyperion are not able to fully pay their contractors for the work on AmigaOS4.0 any longer. What I'm thinking is; If it is true that Amiga Inc. now has fundings to continue the AmigaOS4.0 development, why not let them? People obviously needs to be reminded that Amiga Inc. are not fighting the AmigaOS4.0 developers here, just their work assigner (who should be Amiga Inc. in the first place, IMO).

_________________
Sammy Nordström, A.K.A. "Samface"

MINDRELEASE.net - The Non-Commercial Network of Digital Arts.

Samworks D & C - Professional Web Development (in Swedish)

@samface

Quote:

If it is true that Amiga Inc. now has fundings to continue the AmigaOS4.0 development

Assignment of funds to naming rights for the Kent Event Center, clearly shows
where financial priorities lie. (regardless of that issue resolution)

#6

Last edited by number6 on 28-Jul-2007 at 03:19 PM.

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This posting, in its entirety, represents solely the perspective of the author.
*Secrecy has served us so well*

@_Steve_

Re. Amigas zero complaints.



Quote:

Well that is in relation to reports against posts, so a zero post count means you cant have an AR lodged against you

Or looking at it another way, Amiga Inc have exactly the same numbers of complaints abiut their posings as the number they have actually made. That is a 100% bad record

@samface



I agree to everything you said.

_________________
AmigaOS or MorphOS on x86 would sell orders of magnitude more than the current,
hardware-intensive solutions. And they'd go faster.-- D.Haynie

@samface

I might be wrong, but i hope you are right there...

_________________
Helge K. Leaving the Amiga in favour of a PC..

@number6

Quote:

number6 wrote: @samface Assignment of funds to naming rights for the Kent Event Center, clearly shows where financial priorities lie. (regardless of that issue resolution) #6

And if they don't pay up on Monday coupled with their demands for a lower intial payment to Kent it would appear they may not have ever had the $2.5 million. If they don't have that whats the chances they had the $2 million offered to buy Hyperion lock stock and barrel? They can't finish any handheld products out of ADI these days, they appear to be failing at the ACK joint venture goals so far as we can tell. They have not been abe to show us any AOS 5 progress (or existance). The only evidence of money that they have is that they have lawyers in their employ and Bill. But Bill has worked for free before as he claims the old entity Amiga Washington still owes him over $700,000 dollars. And the bottom line is they produce nothing for us.

_________________
Pegasos2 G3 running AOS 4.1 and MorphOS 2.0
Amikit user, tinkering with Icaros VM (AROS)
EFIKA owner
Amiga 1200

@samface


Quite right!

@fairlanefastback

I guess this thread is about which set of hands holding OS4 the Amiga user would be better off with. Hyperion has certainly took a long time to get this far, lost us many users, and put eyetech out.
If AInc has money and where it came from is fun to speculate about. It has no bearing on if they should have their that they bought taken away from them. If fact who would be a better care taker is actually irrelevent. They only argument I see is the "insolvency" clause. I think that is weak and unenforceable in the US. Even the argument that they are cheats ect.. (which I agree), is irrelevent.


Ben Hermans:
"Besides, if you paid 5 million dollars for something, would you accept other people running off with your IP without putting up a fight? "

@stew

Quote:

stew wrote: @fairlanefastback I guess this thread is about which set of hands holding OS4 the Amiga user would be better off with. Hyperion has certainly took a long time to get this far, lost us many users, and put eyetech out. If AInc has money and where it came from is fun to speculate about. It has no bearing on if they should have their that they bought taken away from them. If fact who would be a better care taker is actually irrelevent. They only argument I see is the "insolvency" clause. I think that is weak and unenforceable in the US. Even the argument that they are cheats ect.. (which I agree), is irrelevent. Ben Hermans: "Besides, if you paid 5 million dollars for something, would you accept other people running off with your IP without putting up a fight? "

I think its pretty clear Hyperion and Acube are ready to start selling us SAM w/ AOS 4.0 as soon as they feel free and clear legally (if that happens). We can be pretty certain they'd sell us a solution quick. If Amiga wins we have a pretty good idea ACK machines will never come IMO. AOS 4.0 will likely get locked away in the IP vault. Amiga is a reseller of WinXP and cell phone games. Amiga Delaware did not pay the $5 million you quote. Thats the long defunct Amiga Washington. Pentti seems quite more concentrated on Hakia than Amiga and they seem quite content on Amiga's Board of Directors to just let Bill add some more WinXP titles to offer to the public occassionally. I see no reason to hope they control Amiga OS destiny. Hyperion seems much more community friendly.

Last edited by fairlanefastback on 28-Jul-2007 at 06:52 PM.

_________________
Pegasos2 G3 running AOS 4.1 and MorphOS 2.0
Amikit user, tinkering with Icaros VM (AROS)
EFIKA owner
Amiga 1200

@fairlanefastback

You miss the point of the quote. Someone paid a lot of $$$ for the ip. It is theirs to lock away if they wish (sucks for us). That someone certainly was not Hyperion. Would we as fans of AOS4 be better off with Hyperion owning the ip? Possibly but that is not the point of the quote.

@stew

Quote:

stew wrote: @fairlanefastback You miss the point of the quote. Someone paid a lot of $$$ for the ip. It is theirs to lock away if they wish (sucks for us). That someone certainly was not Hyperion. Would we as fans of AOS4 be better off with Hyperion owning the ip? Possibly but that is not the point of the quote.

But that someone dosen't own it anymore right? Amiga Washington dosen't own it right? Thats what Amiga Delware wants everyone to believe. You have no idea what Amiga Delaware years later paid (if anything), you have no impactful quote for that to throw around. You have no "lot of $$$" to point to. You treat Amiga Washington = Amiga Delaware when it suits. The quote means nothing now. It has no pertinant point save possibly to point out how the Amiga Washington principals magically appear to be the Amiga Delaware principals and that it probably should be Bolton Peck's IP at this point to license to someone (IMO).

And if Amiga Delaware wants to lock it away just get it bloody over with and say so. This AOS 5 better than Apple OSX nonsense, ACK joint announcement, impending new answers supposedly to us at Amigaweb.net when (if) they come insults our intelligence (IMO). If you don't want anything to do with us just buck up and say so.

So if they want to play like they give a *&(*% about us, yet do nothing tangible ever, why not have a community campaign to shun them?

Last edited by fairlanefastback on 28-Jul-2007 at 08:53 PM.
Last edited by fairlanefastback on 28-Jul-2007 at 08:52 PM.
Last edited by fairlanefastback on 28-Jul-2007 at 08:51 PM.
Last edited by fairlanefastback on 28-Jul-2007 at 08:51 PM.
Last edited by fairlanefastback on 28-Jul-2007 at 08:47 PM.

_________________
Pegasos2 G3 running AOS 4.1 and MorphOS 2.0
Amikit user, tinkering with Icaros VM (AROS)
EFIKA owner
Amiga 1200

@number6

They also spent quite alot on buying that indian software development company. One thing doesn't have to exclude the other, you know...

_________________
Sammy Nordström, A.K.A. "Samface"

MINDRELEASE.net - The Non-Commercial Network of Digital Arts.

Samworks D & C - Professional Web Development (in Swedish)

@Helge

The slightest possibility of me being right should be enough to call off the idea of a "Throw-Amiga-Inc-Out-Campaign", don't you agree?

_________________
Sammy Nordström, A.K.A. "Samface"

MINDRELEASE.net - The Non-Commercial Network of Digital Arts.

Samworks D & C - Professional Web Development (in Swedish)

@fairlanefastback

You're full of theories, but they all seem to lack some kind of attachment to reality. From public records, we know that ACK and Amiga Inc. has already come to an agreement to deliver AmigaOS4.0 and compatible hardware to end-users, we know that Amiga Inc. was in negotiations with ACube before Hyperion interfered and we also know that Amiga Inc. was in negotiations with certain core AmigaOS4.0 developers for future AmigaOS development. This is rather odd behaviour from someone wanting to lock away the AmigaOS in the IP vault, wouldn't you agree?

_________________
Sammy Nordström, A.K.A. "Samface"

MINDRELEASE.net - The Non-Commercial Network of Digital Arts.

Samworks D & C - Professional Web Development (in Swedish)

@fairlanefastback

Quote:

fairlanefastback wrote: @stew Quote: stew wrote: @fairlanefastback You miss the point of the quote. Someone paid a lot of $$$ for the ip. It is theirs to lock away if they wish (sucks for us). That someone certainly was not Hyperion. Would we as fans of AOS4 be better off with Hyperion owning the ip? Possibly but that is not the point of the quote. But that someone dosen't own it anymore right? Amiga Washington dosen't own it right? Thats what Amiga Delware wants everyone to believe. You have no idea what Amiga Delaware years later paid (if anything), you have no impactful quote for that to throw around. You have no "lot of $$$" to point to. You treat Amiga Washington = Amiga Delaware when it suits. The quote means nothing now. It has no pertinant point save possibly to point out how the Amiga Washington principals magically appear to be the Amiga Delaware principals and that it probably should be Bolton Peck's IP at this point to license to someone (IMO). And if Amiga Delaware wants to lock it away just get it bloody over with and say so. This AOS 5 better than Apple OSX nonsense, ACK joint announcement, impending new answers supposedly to us at Amigaweb.net when (if) they come insults our intelligence (IMO). If you don't want anything to do with us just buck up and say so. So if they want to play like they give a *&(*% about us, yet do nothing tangible ever, why not have a community campaign to shun them?

Please read what I posted that you quoted again slowly. You will see someone paid alot for the ip. It was NOT Hyperion. Get it now? They signed a stupid contract of their own volition and now don't like the consequences. Why did they not comply at first request, and when AInc did not do anything with it in 6 months Hyperion would be free and clear as per contract? If you bother to look and read and understant the Ben Hermans quotes you seem to ignore you will see he understood Ainc could buy back the OS at any time for a fixed amount. If they sold/transfered that right I do not know but someone had that right and tried to exersize it. Hyperion refused to comply. If Hyperion can squirm their way out may be possible, but Ben Hermans understood the contract exactly as presented by Ainc by his own words in his posts and yet you refuse to admit that.

I understand Hyperion being a sentimental favorite for some. I also understand some people thinking the OS would be better off with ownership by Hyperion. I just don't happen to be one of those people. That is an entirely different matter altogether. Either way it does not alter the fact that Ben Hermans understood the comntract as portrayed and now Hyperion is trying to wiggle out. Just because Ainc has proven themselves to be cheats ect.. does not give Hyperion a "get out of contract free card".

I am sorry you think the quote has no relevance but I think it is quite apt. Ainc W paid alot for the ip and therefore it is theirs to sell, bestow, bequeath ect.. to whomever they wish. They only justification I can see for Hyperion getting the OS is the "insolvency" clause. That looks like quite a stretch to me.

@samface

Quote:

samface wrote: @fairlanefastback You're full of theories, but they all seem to lack some kind of attachment to reality. From public records, we know that ACK and Amiga Inc. has already come to an agreement to deliver AmigaOS4.0 and compatible hardware to end-users, we know that Amiga Inc. was in negotiations with ACube before Hyperion interfered and we also know that Amiga Inc. was in negotiations with certain core AmigaOS4.0 developers for future AmigaOS development. This is rather odd behaviour from someone wanting to lock away the AmigaOS in the IP vault, wouldn't you agree?

"Public records" huh? You mean the press release at Amiga.com I suppose. Ok if you think the more likely grounding in reality is that Amiga truly believed ACK would have new Amigas out to the public by no later that the end of this summer, thats your business.

As far as your accusation that Hyperion "interfered" with an Acube/Amiga deal, just present the evidence. The fact that we know Acube sought a license first with Amiga but later made a deal with Hyperion does not mean Hyperion "intefered". But just post the evidence. Thanks.

Developers, lets see , in the end siding with Hyperion. Wonder why that is?

Offering to pay $10 million on naming rights, hmm that seems well documented. Problems wih paying as agreed to, thats also well documented too in multiple media outlets. No news of any money spent on any product for the community. If they have the $2.5 million for the intial Kent payment but are now running out on that deal, will they spend the money on AOS 5.0? How long until the beta is out do you think?

So no, I would'nt agree.

_________________
Pegasos2 G3 running AOS 4.1 and MorphOS 2.0
Amikit user, tinkering with Icaros VM (AROS)
EFIKA owner
Amiga 1200

@stew

Quote:

stew wrote: @fairlanefastback Please read what I posted that you quoted again slowly. You will see someone paid alot for the ip. It was NOT Hyperion. Get it now? They signed a stupid contract of their own volition and now don't like the consequences. Why did they not comply at first request, and when AInc did not do anything with it in 6 months Hyperion would be free and clear as per contract? If you bother to look and read and understant the Ben Hermans quotes you seem to ignore you will see he understood Ainc could buy back the OS at any time for a fixed amount. If they sold/transfered that right I do not know but someone had that right and tried to exersize it. Hyperion refused to comply. If Hyperion can squirm their way out may be possible, but Ben Hermans understood the contract exactly as presented by Ainc by his own words in his posts and yet you refuse to admit that. I understand Hyperion being a sentimental favorite for some. I also understand some people thinking the OS would be better off with ownership by Hyperion. I just don't happen to be one of those people. That is an entirely different matter altogether. Either way it does not alter the fact that Ben Hermans understood the comntract as portrayed and now Hyperion is trying to wiggle out. Just because Ainc has proven themselves to be cheats ect.. does not give Hyperion a "get out of contract free card". I am sorry you think the quote has no relevance but I think it is quite apt. Ainc W paid alot for the ip and therefore it is theirs to sell, bestow, bequeath ect.. to whomever they wish. They only justification I can see for Hyperion getting the OS is the "insolvency" clause. That looks like quite a stretch to me.

Did Amiga Washington legally (truly legally) sell/transfer the right? Thats for a court to decide. You've already decided it seems. But all we truly know is that a different entity than Amiga Delaware is who spent $5 million. You can say thats "NOT Hyperion", but its NOT Amiga Delaware either. What they spent, if anything is unknown to us. The legal question is before a court on whether is got transfered away legally, or if it did not. Officers of corporations have fiduciary responsibilities, and typically its not a matter as you put it to bestow or bequeath it to "whomever they wish", especially owing debts. Then on the moral question, well anyone for this "we shed all our debts but moved our assets away" situation I have to shake my head at.

I clearly stated already that Ben seems quite slimy on his own. Just as much as you call AInc "cheats". He seems to have played carefully at the language he used at times. I think he was playing at subtleties more. You think he is pulling an about face completely. Either way it would appear he played the community, the bottom line is the same. Slimy, slimy slimy.

So I think Hyperion is the lesser of two evils, being slimy, because sadly Amiga seems worse to me IMHO. You think Amiga are "cheats" but you think they ought to prevail here. Either way they both have mistreated the community and that said I think its fair for Helge to want to gain support for his grassroots community campaign here.

_________________
Pegasos2 G3 running AOS 4.1 and MorphOS 2.0
Amikit user, tinkering with Icaros VM (AROS)
EFIKA owner
Amiga 1200

@samface

Quote:

samface wrote: @number6 They also spent quite alot on buying that indian software development company. One thing doesn't have to exclude the other, you know...

Darn shame they haven't finished Whack Force yet, or Connect Force, or FTP force, etc and that that acquistion has no skill set to work on AOS 5 as per Bill McEwen.

_________________
Pegasos2 G3 running AOS 4.1 and MorphOS 2.0
Amikit user, tinkering with Icaros VM (AROS)
EFIKA owner
Amiga 1200

@samface

Quote:

They also spent quite alot on buying that indian software development company.

I must have missed the news/link detailing the money they spent for it - or how else could you come to the conclusion that they "spent quite a lot on buying that indian software development company"?
Mind you, businesses, especially ones generating losses, have been sold for a symbolic penny...

@samface

Hmmm...when I commented on how funds were being allocated:
Quote:

Assignment of funds to naming rights for the Kent Event Center, clearly shows where financial priorities lie. (regardless of that issue resolution)

You responded:
Quote:

They also spent quite alot on buying that indian software development company. One thing doesn't have to exclude the other, you know...

ok. I have no problem accepting the premise that money might be funneled in multiple directions. However, I have no information to indicate what, if anything, was invested in amigadevindia. I do have quite specific information, from articles in the Kent thread on what -that- was supposed to cost.
More troubling is the way the Kent issue is unfolding at present. It makes any statements about intentions concerning amigadevindia extremely difficult to take seriously.

#6

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