@vox

Quote:

vox wrote: @wegster I doubt why such a progressive move is stopped. Is it so hard to negotiate Apple to give licence for "obsolete" hardware? How long will we wait for Amiga Inc/Acube PROMISED PPC hardware? If they are not gonna realise it, even without OS4 (as in past) then go for MacMini would be right thing to do. Now with AOS4 I do not question the s/w - I just want h/w to run it. MacMini was quite causing attention, but offering very little help. Having in mind this was "christhmas gift" maybe some PDF Tuturial will be a "new years gift" And you should be glad to have a new Amiga user, altough he never prested himself in more then Amiga+Mac association.

Well there are circa 14 millions of still used PPC macs out there...

Almost 1/2 of them are clocked at more than 500MHz...

Now we have almost 7 million of people who could test Amiga OS and evaluate it and maybe apprecciate it or not...

Alost 300.000 of them are former amigans and could choose to dedicate their old PPC mac hardware to Amiga...

To be optimistic, then if just only 10.000 of them will perform that switch back, sure it will be an huge success.

But sure being realistic, if just only 1000 users could apprecciate it and continue using it even in parallel with their MacOS installation (or using their CoreDuo as first Macintosh and PPC one as Amiga machine), sure we will have 1000 users more...

1000 more users It will be not that bad... And it will give new life to Amiga software market...

I will not spit about having 1000 more amigan friends...

Last edited by Raffaele on 28-Dec-2007 at 03:01 PM.

_________________
"When the Amiga came out, everyone [at Apple] was scared as hell." (J.L. Gassée, former CEO of Apple France and chief of devs of Mac II-fx, interviewed by Amazing Computing, Nov 1996).

@vox

Read my comment #19.

It's piracy in any case, the .iso contains files from OS4.
Does not really matter what the other files are for and if for real or not.

@Raffaele

Quote:

Well there are circa 14 millions of still used PPC macs out there...

doesnt matter, not all ppc macs are mac minis. i think you need to re-look at your numbers.

_________________

Has anyone tried this on a PegII system? Hardware wise it's much closer to an Amiga than a MacMini. I have a PegII but it's at home in the US and I'm in Iraq. Won't be able to try it for about 5 more months.

I find it odd that someone drops this off and doesnt elaborate on how to exactly get it running, which exact specs, proof that they actually have it running etc.

It could be a .iso w/a few files thrown in from OS4 that just boots you to a prompt. Hoax until proven otherwise.

@Shadowolf

Yes, I am looking all over the thread.
And I am not speaking just of MacMinis "Christhmas gift". You could
see I speak of a real Moana of which I have seen only a chat log
where Italians are happy and AmigaInc isnt ... one side is enjoying it,
and other writting down exhibits "Q" and "Z"

I believe Moana just needs some nice negotiations between Apple, Amiga and ACube and it would be nice to see even couple hundreds MacMinis running AOS4 while leaving space to users to use two best OSs of today - MacOS and Linux. This would be a great thing to see and no mater what US court or US/UK users think, I am titled to another opinion.

I agree with some other threads: If you cant realise your own PPC hardware for I dont care which reason, USE EXISTING. If you dont do it, you behave equal or worse then CBMs Amiga policies ... Same Old Story Betta Change

_________________
Future Acube and MOS supporter, fi di good, nothing fi di unprofessionals. Learn it harder way!

@Derfs

Quote:

Derfs wrote: @Raffaele Quote: Well there are circa 14 millions of still used PPC macs out there... doesnt matter, not all ppc macs are mac minis. i think you need to re-look at your numbers.

Well, first begin consider just moderm G3 and G4 over 500 MHz...

Then once you have a working loader for Mac Minis, then all you need it is to manage to let it work on different mac hardware...

For IBooks and some G4 it should not be difficult..

For old G3, I think it deserves to be examined some real hardware, this will allow the developers to provide necessary drivers for that motheboards and peripherals, such as embedded HD IDE controllers, USB controllers, audio chips and ancient Apple ATI graphic cards...

Remember!

When you have a working AmigaOS-on-MAC loader, then you could adapt, hack, or joke with it to let it run on any hardware which presents more or less the same specs than the starting hardware for which it was built for...

And it could be adapted on a vaste range of hardware if the loader it is originally built on modular structure...

(then you need to change only single modules, to keep it run on different hardware configurations)

Last edited by Raffaele on 29-Dec-2007 at 12:58 PM.

_________________
"When the Amiga came out, everyone [at Apple] was scared as hell." (J.L. Gassée, former CEO of Apple France and chief of devs of Mac II-fx, interviewed by Amazing Computing, Nov 1996).

@vox

Quote:

I believe Moana just needs some nice negotiations between Apple, Amiga and ACube

I believe that Apple would not be necessary to negotiate concerning the real MOANA project.

The real question is what the company that dares to carry Amiga in it's name is up to and this is an issue that remains unsolved for many many years now.

So, a little birdie mentioned the loader does seem to work at least to the point of loading workbench (at which point it can't continue, as he/she/it is not an OS4 owner) on a 1.5GHz Mac Mini, specs:

Machine Name: Mac mini
Machine Model: PowerMac10,2
CPU Type: PowerPC G4 (1.2)
Number Of CPUs: 1
CPU Speed: 1.5 GHz
L2 Cache (per CPU): 512 KB
Memory: 512 MB
Bus Speed: 167 MHz
Boot ROM Version: 4.9.4f0

So, I went looking for version strings in the ISO distributed, gives this, if anyone cares:
(edited to ignore directories, sort, uniq..)
Macintosh:AmigaMac wegster$ find . -type file -exec strings {} \; | grep \$VER | sort | uniq
$VER:
$VER: %s
$VER: ATIRadeon.chip 51.21 (18.11.2006) (C)2001-2006 Forefront Technologies, Inc.
$VER: ATIRadeon.chip 52.6 (11.01.2007) (C)2001-2007 Forefront Technologies, Inc.
$VER: CDFileSystem 51.34 (11.6.2006)
$VER: DiskSpeed 4.3 (31.12.2004)
$VER: FastFileSystem 51.29 (2.1.2006)
$VER: FileSystem.resource 51.1 (28.9.2005)
$VER: JXFileSystem 3.21 (6.6.2006)
$VER: Loader 51.11 (21.2.2006)
$VER: PCIGraphics.card 51.17 (17.11.2006)
$VER: ScsiSpeed 4.3 (31.12.2004)
$VER: SmartFilesystem 1.260 (22.7.2006) AmigaOS4 PPC
$VER: USB System Software V2.2 (04.11.2006)
$VER: battclock.resource 51.2 (23.1.2005)
$VER: bootmenu 51.23 (7.7.2006)
$VER: con-handler 51.11 (5.3.2006)
$VER: console.device 51.19 (6.3.2006)
$VER: dbdma.library 39.1 (3.5.2007)
$VER: dos 51.99 (12.7.2006)
$VER: dos68ksupport 51.14 (9.10.2004)
$VER: elf.library 51.16 (20.7.2006)
$VER: env-handler 1.20 (26.2.2006) Copyright 2001-2006 by Stephan Rupprecht
$VER: gadtools.library 51.6 (6.3.2006)
$VER: graphics.library 51.38 (6.5.2006)
$VER: hunk.library 51.4 (9.3.2006)
$VER: input.device 51.4 (20.1.2006)
$VER: intuition.library 51.49 (10.6.2006)
$VER: kauai.device 51.58 (05.09.2006)
$VER: kernel 52.3 (19.3.2007)
$VER: keyboard.device 51.4 (17.10.2005) AmigaOne release
$VER: keymap.library 51.8 (24.7.2005)
$VER: layers.library 51.5 (4.2.2006)
$VER: massstorage.usbfd 51.17 (6.7.2006)
$VER: newlib.library 4.14 (7.7.2006)
$VER: nonvolatile.library 52.1 (11.12.2006)
$VER: nvram_OF.resource.kmod 51.1 (6.6.2007)
$VER: ohci.usbhcd 51.5 (29.10.2006)
$VER: petunia 51.28 (7.7.2006)
$VER: ram-handler 51.37 (22.12.2005)
$VER: ramdrive.device 51.4 (21.2.2006)
$VER: ramlib 51.1 (29.9.2005)
$VER: romboot 51.5 (15.2.2006)
$VER: rtg.library 41.4281 (14.6.2006) This library also contains code written by: Olaf Barthel, Didier Levet, Stefan Sommerfeld, J
$VER: sbl_v2_mm 1.0 (31/1/06). Compile options: CD booting, .
$VER: shell 51.60 (29.1.2006)
$VER: strap 51.6 (5.7.2006)
$VER: timer.device 51.21 (26.5.2006)
$VER: viapmu.device 51.1 (10.10.2006)
$VER:bootkeyboard.usbfd 1.13 (31.10.2006)
$VER:bootmouse.usbfd 1.9 (30.10.2006)
$VER:hid.usbfd 1.15 (31.10.2006)
$VER:hub.usbfd 2.1 (04.11.2006)
$VER:usbhidgate.library 1.7 (26.06.2005)
$VER:usbprivate.library 2.2 PPC (04.11.2006)
$VER:usbresource.library 1.9 PPC (06.08.2005)
$VER:usbsys.device 2.2 PPC (04.11.2006)
,$VER:usbprinter.device 1.1 (10.05.2005)
; $VER: diskboot.config 51.4 (19.3.2006)

Last edited by wegster on 31-Dec-2007 at 01:51 AM.

_________________
Are we not done with the same silly arguments and flames yet??!

IT WORKS!!!

Check out DBAlex's post here:
http://tinyurl.com/2ld9sk

@HenryCase

Well, sort of. That doesn't mean all devices work under OS4, assuming you can get the OS4 media merged and bootable past this point. But, it looks promising for Mac Mini owners with a specific version of the Mini, who already own OS4, and can next merge the two ISO files into something that _might_ work.

PS - I didn't realize how much of OS4 was on this ISO, look at the list of files above that I posted.

_________________
Are we not done with the same silly arguments and flames yet??!

@wegster

Youve put Boot ROM Version: 4.9.4f0 not 4.9.4f1 is that correct?

@BooBoo

Dunno. A post here from the uploader claims that 4.9.4f1 works as well:
http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=33668&page=4

Raffaelle posted on A.org this would work with the 1.25GHz and 1.5GHz models...no clue where he got that info from...Raf?

_________________
Are we not done with the same silly arguments and flames yet??!

@wegster

So, if the download contains all those OS4 files (some of which are really old), what do you need the current OS4 CD for? Is it just to get up-to-date versions? If so, why can't it boot that directly if you make a new ISO?

[edit]
All of those Kickstart files that I have looked at are from around the days of Update4 (give or take a few months). It's hard to believe that the ACube devs would have used such out-of-date versions. I still think that it's all very unlikely to be from the Moana project.
[/edit]

Last edited by tonyw on 31-Dec-2007 at 12:51 AM.

_________________
cheers
tony

Hyperion Support Forum: http://forum.hyperion-entertainment.biz/index.php

@tonyw

I don`t think it includes Workbench. It seems to be the equivalent of the kickstart disk for an A1000.

_________________
Fraggle

- insert profound text here -

@wegster

BTW, some iBooks hardware is quite similar to MacMini, maybe some versions of iBook work.

_________________
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@Raffaele

If you need second hand Macs, there are some in some Japanese stores (in Spanish): you can find Macs as cheap as 11 EUR!!!

Saluditos,

Ferrán.

_________________
Amiga user since 1988
AOS4 Betatester
Member of ATO Spain
A1 Cfg
OS4 SCR
A1200

I just got this spec off my parents Mac Mini - they hate it. They wish they had stayed with windows..

Hardware Overview: Machine Model: Mac mini CPU Type: PowerPC G4 (1.2) Number Of CPUs: 1 CPU Speed: 1.25 GHz L2 Cache (per CPU): 512 KB Memory: 512 MB Bus Speed: 167 MHz Boot ROM Version: 4.8.9f1


Is that of use?

@tonyw

Quote:

tonyw wrote: @wegster So, if the download contains all those OS4 files (some of which are really old), what do you need the current OS4 CD for? Is it just to get up-to-date versions? If so, why can't it boot that directly if you make a new ISO? [edit] All of those Kickstart files that I have looked at are from around the days of Update4 (give or take a few months). It's hard to believe that the ACube devs would have used such out-of-date versions. I still think that it's all very unlikely to be from the Moana project. [/edit]

AFAIK, Moana went on for a while, and started some time ago. There's a reference in there somewhere in the court case paperwork, but I don't recall when. Seems possible, though - if they weren't getting a license, then why continue it?

The distributed/leaked ISO doesn't include everything from the OS4 media, I'd expect intentionally, so it's not 'a free OS.' Presumably, IF it's 'complete enough,' and someone has the right bits of OS4 from a legal copy of OS4, maybe it'll work. Or not? And who knows, until someone with 'the right hardware' plus OS4, whether or not it will do much? It could boot, then crash...we don't know how stable any of it is, other than AFAIK it wasn't 'completed,' if it is from Moana.

_________________
Are we not done with the same silly arguments and flames yet??!

@ferrels
Quote:

Has anyone tried this on a PegII system? Hardware wise it's much closer to an Amiga than a MacMini. I have a PegII but it's at home in the US and I'm in Iraq. Won't be able to try it for about 5 more months.

Heh. Software made to run ON the MacMini isn't any more likely to run on the PegII than OS4 final is.

@Crumb
Quote:

Crumb wrote: @wegster BTW, some iBooks hardware is quite similar to MacMini, maybe some versions of iBook work.

I doubt it. If people who seem to know about Moana are mentioning requiring very specific hardware, and not all versions of the mini, I'm pretty sure we can say 'close isn't close enough.' With the number of drivers required, it's going to need to be a pretty exact duplicate of 'the right mini,' and Apple changes hardware even in the same product line at times..I wouldn't hold you're breath.

It's unfortunate. I'm assuming ACube is under NDA with Hyperion, and possibly through them, AInc as well. Were that NOT the case, this could (maybe?) in theory have been sold as a 'patch' for OS4 legitimate owners. It might violate an EULA, but AFAIK, those won't hold up regardless. Having seen the OS4 source (ACube/Moana dev members) + NDAs would very likely cause problems without a 'license.'

IF someone were to reverse engineer the OS4 HAL, I guess it would be possible to still sell or distribute instructions on how to take an OS4 DVD, add new drivers and/or modify the installer, to wind up in the same place. Of course, I expect nearly anyone that could effectively 'redo' such a project is likely already part of the OS4 dev team, and thus falls under NDA, with whatever agreements that brings with it....cept for Bernie/umisef, but I'm fairly sure he wouldn't have too much interest there!

I'm expecting this to become a flamefest at some point. Technically, the distribution of the original uploaded image is illegal, and against copyright law, possibly among others. I believe posession is also considered the same way. However, having said that, I don't believe discussion of such a thing is. And, interestingly, no one whose code was distributed in this has spoken up, nor has ACube.

_________________
Are we not done with the same silly arguments and flames yet??!