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Hans
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Re: Project Moana Files Posted on 18-Dec-2007 15:00:58
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Elite Member |
Joined: 27-Dec-2003 Posts: 5066
From: New Zealand | | |
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| @stew
Quote:
stew wrote: @wegster
It seems alot of people are fine with cutting AInc out. How about we cut Hyperion ect. out also and put up the OS4 iso? Are we ok with that also? I understand the frustration. If someone paid for the software as far as I am concerned what machine they run it on is their business. |
If someone released a patch to get the classic version running on a Mac (or any other machine), then it would be as legal as MacOnLinux, or the patches to get Mac OS X running on non-Mac PCs. If that patch includes code belonging to someone who didn't authorize its release (e.g., ACube's Moana code) then it's definitely pirated as the code didn't belong to the person releasing it.
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A lot was said about AInc coupon scam stealing sales $$4 from Hyperion. Is it ok to steal income from AInc, or is this a one way steet? Don't get me wrong AInc. lost me when they did not pay Bolton and talked so bad about him. I just see alot of hypocrisy on display whith this. |
It's a gray area. If Hyperion are operating as if the original license still holds, they owe Amiga Inc. royalties for every copy of OS4 for classics that they sell, regardless of what their customers run it on. They'd actually be benefiting from this release. Putting the OS4 ISO online definitely would be stealing, as would be putting the Moana project's code online (which it appears that this ISO contains).
Note that if someone actually made and released their own patch, it would have to take ExecSG from the OS4 CD and patch it, as the HAL is statically linked, and ExecSG is owned by the Friedens.
Hans
_________________ http://hdrlab.org.nz/ - Amiga OS 4 projects, programming articles and more. Home of the RadeonHD driver for Amiga OS 4.x project. https://keasigmadelta.com/ - More of my work. |
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Interesting
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Re: Project Moana Files Posted on 18-Dec-2007 16:25:25
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Super Member |
Joined: 29-Mar-2004 Posts: 1812
From: a place & time long long ago, when things mattered. | | |
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| @ssolie
Heavy breathing.......
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Therefore, it is pirated software and you should react accordingly. |
Bring them to me !
btw: nice new mask SSolie _________________ "The system no longer works " -- Young Anakin Skywalker |
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Interesting
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Re: Project Moana Files Posted on 18-Dec-2007 16:30:37
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Joined: 29-Mar-2004 Posts: 1812
From: a place & time long long ago, when things mattered. | | |
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| @Hans
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It's a gray area. If Hyperion are operating as if the original license still holds |
not a gray area, B&W. Hyperion has a contract and the Judge ruled and confirmed it.
_________________ "The system no longer works " -- Young Anakin Skywalker |
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Hans
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Re: Project Moana Files Posted on 18-Dec-2007 16:38:13
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Elite Member |
Joined: 27-Dec-2003 Posts: 5066
From: New Zealand | | |
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| @Interesting
I meant that using a patch to get OS4 running on unlicensed hardware is a gray area. If you own a copy, I don't have a problem with it personally.
BTW, the judge only ruled that the status quo should continue for now, not that the contract still holds. Otherwise the lawsuit would be over already.
Hans
_________________ http://hdrlab.org.nz/ - Amiga OS 4 projects, programming articles and more. Home of the RadeonHD driver for Amiga OS 4.x project. https://keasigmadelta.com/ - More of my work. |
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Interesting
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Re: Project Moana Files Posted on 18-Dec-2007 16:40:06
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Super Member |
Joined: 29-Mar-2004 Posts: 1812
From: a place & time long long ago, when things mattered. | | |
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| @stew
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I wonder if there is any conection to the "developers" vs. Hyperion law suit? |
your asking the wrong questions.
Who/ Whom wants to steal from the developers? or maybe
Who/Whom wishes to diminish future earnings to Hyperion and or their developers?
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Looks like those entrusted with OS4 could not be trusted after all. |
Point of fact, they can’t be trusted.
Last edited by Interesting on 18-Dec-2007 at 04:52 PM. Last edited by Interesting on 18-Dec-2007 at 04:43 PM.
_________________ "The system no longer works " -- Young Anakin Skywalker |
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wegster
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Re: Project Moana Files Posted on 18-Dec-2007 16:56:04
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Elite Member |
Joined: 29-Nov-2004 Posts: 8554
From: RTP, NC USA | | |
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| @stew
Quote:
It seems alot of people are fine with cutting AInc out. How about we cut Hyperion ect. out also and put up the OS4 iso? Are we ok with that also? I understand the frustration. If someone paid for the software as far as I am concerned what machine they run it on is their business. |
Nope, I wouldn't be OK with someone posting the OS4 ISO. But, per the contract, no matter why/how an OS4 sale is made, Hyperion would continue to owe AInc whatever royalty per copy, regardless of if someone were buying it for a classic, A1 (which you can't buy separately, nor is there any point to nowadays), or anything else/Mac.
So the only 'loss' IMO if this is real, or if a similar case develops in the future, is to the members of the Moana project, yet they were unable to sell their work in the current climate already. That doesn't make it 'right,' but realistically, as ACube was behind Moana, and are the distributors of OS4, they presumably still get some percentage of OS4 sales as well, so while it may be a lesser percentage versus were they able to offer Moana for sale, 20% of something is better than 100% of nothing.
They, of course, may not see it that way, but of course, I'm being selfish and justifying it - even SAM holds little interest at the price it comes at, the lack of a portable OS4 (laptop) is a truly poor joke, and the A1s era is long gone. We need hardware unencumbered by idiotic licensing where someone expects to become rich at each sale, or can only make such low quantities the prices are astronomical versus what you get, so I'd sooner see a patch out there to run OS4 on real commodity hardware, or as a virtual machine image, and increase both OS4 sales and users, versus waiting for Hyperion and AInc to sort things out in court, or worse, waiting for some overpriced hardware from Ack, AI, or whomever the next one in line is, trying to sell us overpiced systems that themselves also carry a 'license fee' with. This is not the 1990's any more, and no one in their right mind, as a real business, is going to produce a desktop PPC mobo then pay AI yet another fee just for the 'right' of running OS4. Or, if they do, it will continue to wind up priced so poorly as to ensure very few sales, only to those with truly disposable hobby income, and won't get very far.
*shrug* I'm overall, just done with all of the stupidity, and how involved parties would sooner shoot each other in the foot than doing something that might give OS4 a chance to actually gain new users._________________ Are we not done with the same silly arguments and flames yet??! |
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NutsAboutAmiga
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Re: Project Moana Files Posted on 18-Dec-2007 18:08:06
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Elite Member |
Joined: 9-Jun-2004 Posts: 12795
From: Norway | | |
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| @stew
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How about we cut Hyperion ect. |
If you cut out the origination that pays the developers then no developer will work on AmigaOS4 full time and I’m wanting for AmigaOS4.5 or AmigaOS5 from Hyperion, and if we cut Hyperion out, then that is not going to happen.
I see no future in piracy on only a road to abandoned commercial software projects, two wrongs does not make right.
_________________ http://lifeofliveforit.blogspot.no/ Facebook::LiveForIt Software for AmigaOS |
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Raffaele
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Re: Project Moana Files Posted on 18-Dec-2007 19:09:00
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Super Member |
Joined: 7-Dec-2005 Posts: 1906
From: Naples, Italy | | |
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| @ChrisH
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ChrisH wrote: P.S. Given the (semi-official?) denial coming from ACube, my current sig might have some bearing on the matter |
The sig:
Quote:
"Believe nothing until it's officially denied." --Claud C0ckburn
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OK, so I have some official denies saying that Elvis Presley, Marylin Monroe, James Dean and Lady Diana are not absolutely alive and kicking as presumed by fools...
So what?_________________ "When the Amiga came out, everyone [at Apple] was scared as hell." (J.L. Gassée, former CEO of Apple France and chief of devs of Mac II-fx, interviewed by Amazing Computing, Nov 1996). |
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opi
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Re: Project Moana Files Posted on 18-Dec-2007 20:56:37
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Team Member |
Joined: 2-Mar-2005 Posts: 2752
From: Poland | | |
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| @Raffaele
→ Joke
↑ you _________________ OpenWindows Initiative. Port PS3 hardware to bananas. For free. Join today and receive expired $50 cupon from AI! |
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Turrican3
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Re: Project Moana Files Posted on 18-Dec-2007 21:31:29
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Regular Member |
Joined: 20-Jun-2003 Posts: 386
From: Italy | | |
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| @wegster
I agree 110% with you.
Custom, overpriced HW will take OS4 nowhere.
It's more or less like PS3 at launch, priced at 599$/¤ you could only sell it to diehard fans, and sorry if I sound rude, but there are not that many Amigans anymore, especially if we consider that OS4-compatible hardware is nothing more than a PC motherboard with a different processor. Definitely worse than the 8th wonder that was the Amiga (1000) more than 20 years ago.
IMHO there's still a chance for OS4 to survive, but it must follow the "software only", no custom HW route.
I would buy an original copy of OS4 NOW if it was possibile to run it on cheap HW, as a MacMini is. |
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logicalheart
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Re: Project Moana Files Posted on 18-Dec-2007 22:48:12
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Joined: 2-Dec-2003 Posts: 696
From: Sandy, Utah. USA | | |
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Reth
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Re: Project Moana Files Posted on 18-Dec-2007 22:56:40
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Joined: 28-Jun-2005 Posts: 197
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Crumb
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Re: Project Moana Files Posted on 19-Dec-2007 0:42:44
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Elite Member |
Joined: 12-Mar-2003 Posts: 2209
From: Zaragoza (Aragonian State) | | |
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| @NutsAboutAmiga
As long as each user pays for his OS4 copy I don't have any problem with them running it on is A1, Mac, PSX, x86, x86-64, z80, 6502, clocks, fridges or whatever they decide to run it on.
For me third party patches are ok as long as you pay for your copy.
Amiga Inc receives money for each copy sold so even they would win with a MacMini patch.
I'm still unsure abut it being real... but if it works it would be good news.
Who can honestly say he prefers to run OS4 on a crap sub ghz L2 cache less expensive board instead of a easily available G4 running at more than 1Ghz? _________________ The only spanish amiga news web page/club: CUAZ |
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samo79
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Re: Project Moana Files Posted on 19-Dec-2007 1:18:51
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Joined: 13-Feb-2003 Posts: 3505
From: Italy, Perugia | | |
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spihunter
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Re: Project Moana Files Posted on 19-Dec-2007 1:44:45
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Joined: 5-Nov-2004 Posts: 60
From: Durham, NC USA | | |
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| I can understand about people being upset about this because it can be considered piracy.
But dont you guys think that its even worse that alot of people that want to use this OS cant because of the hardware situation?
I would would buy OS4 for $300+ USD if it ran on a Mac Mini. Then, lawsuit or not my money would go to the winner??? (no winner as far as I can see)
and I would have a nice, small, fast, Amiga.
I'm sorry if you guys think that is wrong.. I didnt have the big bucks to splash on an A1 when they came out.
_________________ 600Mhz G3 AmigaOne in a custom Commodore case. |
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Barret
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Re: Project Moana Files Posted on 19-Dec-2007 1:52:38
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Member |
Joined: 19-Jun-2005 Posts: 84
From: Unknown | | |
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| @spihunter
Good point and well said. I have already paid AmigaKit $115.00 for my copy of OS4 and I haven't received it yet. I don't have the PPC card to run it when I do get it. I also would have paid more for it if it ran on ANY new or used available and affordable platform. |
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stew
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Re: Project Moana Files Posted on 19-Dec-2007 2:52:39
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Regular Member |
Joined: 26-Sep-2003 Posts: 453
From: Unknown | | |
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| @logicalheart
NO sorry I did not state myself clearly. I would not want Hyperion "cut out". It was rhetorical. I was pointing out the hypocrisy of those that are so anti Ainc. I have been corrected that the only people "hurt" are those that have code included in this and did not want it distributed. I guess that will hold for Ainc if OS4 is found to belong to them.
BTW how much 3.x code is in OS4? |
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stew
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Re: Project Moana Files Posted on 19-Dec-2007 2:56:23
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Regular Member |
Joined: 26-Sep-2003 Posts: 453
From: Unknown | | |
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| @Crumb
My only question is why the dongle approach in the first place. Why not an open firmware. Oh thats right the Friedens were afraid of piracy. |
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vox
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Re: Project Moana Files Posted on 19-Dec-2007 8:06:55
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Elite Member |
Joined: 12-Jun-2005 Posts: 3731
From: Belgrade, Serbia | | |
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| @stew
If this patch ever works both Amiga and Hyperion should praise it. In no hardware situation, ability to run OS4 Final on G4 Mac would be benefitial to Amiga community. Is also an non-produced anymore computer model, so I dont see why everyone (ACube srl. for example) is against it.
And I hate to hear that illegal software can destroy your hardware kind of thing. I find it as a brainwashing. I will try to try this thing in 2008: Anyway MacMini G4 is best PPC COMPUTER I can find around, and YES I will legally have MacMini. And with both why is its sooo illegal?
I also think that Apple, Hyperion and Amiga could work it out to make a legal OS4 4 MacMini. Radeon and G4 support is already there, and would love to see Firewire, Bluetooth,Altivec and SATA Drives support in Amiga OS 4.x.
Much better then SAM EP440, while SAM version would be best praised as AVAILIABLE HARDWARE.
No hardware to run OS on - I dont care what do you say about PIRACY since you are the PIRATE yourself selling "Cat in a bag". Provide me some bassis and then tell me about legality.
Maybe too Serbian way of thinking.
P.S I still dont believe Piracy destroyed Amiga, CBM did, and this is just the same old story to me _________________ Future Acube and MOS supporter, fi di good, nothing fi di unprofessionals. Learn it harder way! |
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abalaban
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Re: Project Moana Files Posted on 19-Dec-2007 8:27:51
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Super Member |
Joined: 1-Oct-2004 Posts: 1114
From: France | | |
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| @samo79
Have you seen this post and this other ?
_________________ AOS 4.1 : I dream it, Hyperion did it ! Now dreaming AOS 4.2... Thank you to all devs involved for this great job ! |
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