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PosterThread
abalaban 
Re: Project Moana Files
Posted on 19-Dec-2007 8:40:46
#81 ]
Super Member
Joined: 1-Oct-2004
Posts: 1114
From: France

@vox

Quote:
Radeon and G4 support is already there, and would love to see Firewire, Bluetooth,Altivec and SATA Drives support in Amiga OS 4.x.


Altivec is supported in OS4 since quite some time now !!!

Quote:
I still dont believe Piracy destroyed Amiga, CBM did, and this is just the same old story to me

I agree with you : piracy made the Amiga famous when CBM was here because it was easy to have plenty of soft and games, *BUT* this is also piracy that killed the Amiga *after* CBM because the market was not viable anymore for a not commercially avaiblabe computer with so high piracy...

_________________
AOS 4.1 : I dream it, Hyperion did it !
Now dreaming AOS 4.2...
Thank you to all devs involved for this great job !

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cHaOs667 
Re: Project Moana Files
Posted on 19-Dec-2007 9:13:39
#82 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 12-Nov-2004
Posts: 706
From: Bad Homburg v.d.H., Germany

@vox

Quote:
...tooth,Altivec and SATA Drives support in Amiga OS 4.x.


AFAIK SATA is already supported through some supported SIL SATA controller cards (i think i have read something like this in the past years in some OS4 related forums)

_________________
Ei gude wie!
I love my AMIGA Collection...
2x A500 (1x 1MB) OS1.3
1x A600 (40MB HDD) OS2.05 (broken joyport)
1x A1200 (68030/50, 32 MB Fast RAM) OS3.1
1x A4000D 040/40 (48 MB Fast), OS3.9, Fastlane Z3, CV64, Deneb, Indi AGA
1x CD³²
1x µAOn

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ChrisH 
Re: Project Moana Files
Posted on 19-Dec-2007 11:59:39
#83 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Jan-2005
Posts: 6679
From: Unknown

Looks like the moderators on the Abime site have decided that this is probably a hoax, and so have closed the thread (and banned AmigaMac). I was hopeful it was for real, but the lack of useful info coming from AmigaMac does make it less likely now.

edit: P.S. Raffael, it was a joke.

Last edited by ChrisH on 19-Dec-2007 at 12:00 PM.

_________________
Author of the PortablE programming language.
It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue...

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Metalheart 
Re: Project Moana Files
Posted on 19-Dec-2007 14:06:36
#84 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Aug-2003
Posts: 2969
From: Somewhere in the Dutch mountains....

@Crumb

Quote:
As long as each user pays for his OS4 copy I don't have any problem with them running it on is A1, Mac, PSX, x86, x86-64, z80, 6502, clocks, fridges or whatever they decide to run it on.For me third party patches are ok as long as you pay for your copy.Amiga Inc receives money for each copy sold so even they would win with a MacMini patch.


EXACTLY what I am thinking !

edit: Also it would be fine for me if OS4 classic would run on somesort of UAE ontop of some Linux distro on x86, like Amithlon did... Hell... even running on WinUAE would be fine for me !! Atleast until some usable hardware is licensed and/or released....

All of the above would generate some extra sales of OS4....
I know there could (would) be pirated copies going around, but hey.... even 100 more sales are good, right ?

btw, how is OS4 classic protected against illegal copying ? Is it protected ? Probably trough the registration on the Hyperion site, isn't it ?
So all of the above options SHOULD only work with original copies of OS4. I think... Unless when it is REALY cracked...

Mart

Last edited by Metalheart on 19-Dec-2007 at 02:17 PM.

_________________
Theres a time to live and a time to die
When its time to meet the maker
Theres a time to live but isnt it strange
That as soon as you're born you're dying

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AmiDog 
Re: Project Moana Files
Posted on 19-Dec-2007 14:39:28
#85 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 1-Jun-2004
Posts: 917
From: Kumla, Sweden

@Metalheart

I would guess the only protection is that it requires a BPPC/CSPPC to run, that is, it only works on 603e/604e CPU and only with the setup and MapROM features etc of those accelerators, which makes it somewhat hard to run it on anything else...

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tiffers 
Re: Project Moana Files
Posted on 19-Dec-2007 14:51:45
#86 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 7-Jun-2007
Posts: 349
From: Perth, Western Australia

@ChrisH

Quote:
I was hopeful it was for real, but the lack of useful info coming from AmigaMac does make it less likely now.


Looking at the instructions given there, and looking at the docs here: Apple Devloper Docs, and looking at the directory structure of the cdrom images, I have come to the following conclusion:

1. The command boot cd:\\slb may be at fault. It's probably looking for a file named slb in the root of the cd-rom, which doesn't exist
2. There is a file named slb, in the 'l' (lower-case 'L') directory/drawer/folder, and it seems the boot command can take a path to a file, not just a device and filename. I don't know if case sensitivity is an issue.

I think the command should be: boot cd:\l\slb but (a) I have no mac mini, no boot iso, and no Amiga OS 4 Classic install disk.

It'd be interesting to know if this makes any difference.

tiffers

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Metalheart 
Re: Project Moana Files
Posted on 19-Dec-2007 15:29:40
#87 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Aug-2003
Posts: 2969
From: Somewhere in the Dutch mountains....

@AmiDog

I'm not sure if it is possible to register the same copy of OS4 twice on the Hyperion site.... Or does OS4 run without registering ?(Rogue ? anyone ?)

If this is NOT possible, you can not just copy and spread OS4 and expect it to run on anything (even classics), so THAT would be somekind of copy protection.

And therefore it has to be payed for by whatever user who wants it to run on whatever machine... Unless ofcourse someone would realy crack the registering code....

Also, why would (as pointed out earlier by someone else) Hyperion give a sudden boost to OS4 classic with god knows how few copies to be sold.... And NO chance of seeing new classic PPC addons in the near future. And the risk of OS4 being pirated the hell out of it, to run on other classic machines, IF OS4 is not protected by anything else than NOT being adapted to run complete other hardware. So again.. how does the registration work ?

As I understood, OS4 classic has no way of being run on anything other then classic machines. But all that has to be replaced/adapted is the HAL and some hardware drivers and resources.... So... It would afterall seem to be 'trivial' to make it run on other PPC platforms, if documentation is available....

But I'm rambling on now...

So I dont think the PPC cards in classics are THE copy protection ! I would be silly...

MArt


_________________
Theres a time to live and a time to die
When its time to meet the maker
Theres a time to live but isnt it strange
That as soon as you're born you're dying

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Raffaele 
Re: Project Moana Files
Posted on 19-Dec-2007 16:36:16
#88 ]
Super Member
Joined: 7-Dec-2005
Posts: 1906
From: Naples, Italy

@ChrisH

Quote:

ChrisH wrote:
Looks like the moderators on the Abime site have decided that this is probably a hoax, and so have closed the thread (and banned AmigaMac). I was hopeful it was for real, but the lack of useful info coming from AmigaMac does make it less likely now.

edit: P.S. Raffael, it was a joke.


WHAT? NO YOU COULD NOT TAKE YOURSELF OFF THE DISCUSSION WITH JUST SOME EXCUSES!

THE KING LIVES! LONG LIVE THE KING!









P.S. Also mine answer was a joke, if you didn't understand it...

Last edited by Raffaele on 19-Dec-2007 at 05:05 PM.

_________________
"When the Amiga came out, everyone [at Apple] was scared as hell." (J.L. Gassée, former CEO of Apple France and chief of devs of Mac II-fx, interviewed by Amazing Computing, Nov 1996).

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rzookol 
Re: Project Moana Files
Posted on 19-Dec-2007 17:44:48
#89 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 4-Oct-2005
Posts: 318
From: Poland, Lublin

@tiffers

boot cd:\\slb is correct form

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Rob 
Re: Project Moana Files
Posted on 19-Dec-2007 20:03:30
#90 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 20-Mar-2003
Posts: 6344
From: S.Wales

@Metalheart

Quote:
I'm not sure if it is possible to register the same copy of OS4 twice on the Hyperion site.... Or does OS4 run without registering ?


It would be a bit daft to let you register the same software twice. There is a code on the back of the CD which I'd assume you have to type in during registration like the rest of there retail software.

Quote:
If this is NOT possible, you can not just copy and spread OS4 and expect it to run on anything (even classics), so THAT would be somekind of copy protection.


I expect it would be fairly trivial to spread copies with the key code if you wanted.

To be honest though I doubt that anyone who has waited around for so long and/or spent huge sums of money to get the required hardware is going to jeoporadize the chance of further updates by pirating it.

Quote:
And therefore it has to be payed for by whatever user who wants it to run on whatever machine... Unless ofcourse someone would realy crack the registering code....


As above, I'd say that whoever will want to run it will want to pay for it.

Quote:
Also, why would (as pointed out earlier by someone else) Hyperion give a sudden boost to OS4 classic with god knows how few copies to be sold.... And NO chance of seeing new classic PPC addons in the near future. And the risk of OS4 being pirated the hell out of it, to run on other classic machines, IF OS4 is not protected by anything else than NOT being adapted to run complete other hardware. So again.. how does the registration work ?


Why do you seem to think OS4 classic will be rampantly pirated. How many Blizzard/Cyberstorm PPC owners do you know who are saying "hey you know that PPC version of Amiga OS I've wanted since I got my card in '97, well I think I'll try and download a copy".

Copy protection works by end users not be stupid enough to throw away the Classic version's future.

Quote:
As I understood, OS4 classic has no way of being run on anything other then classic machines. But all that has to be replaced/adapted is the HAL and some hardware drivers and resources.... So... It would afterall seem to be 'trivial' to make it run on other PPC platforms, if documentation is available....


It all comes down to licencing, so far a licence has not been granted for anything other than AmigaOne and Classic hardware. So far it seems that Hyperion consider it too big a risk to release it for anything else, it could blow any chance they have of a favourable court ruling.

A third party could try to patch or reverse engineer the hardware specific components of OS4 but that might actually end up taking longer than the lawsuit.

Quote:
So I dont think the PPC cards in classics are THE copy protection ! I would be silly...


Why would it be so silly in a market where loyalty, devotion and a willingness to spend whatever it takes are a prerequisite for ownership.

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Frags 
Re: Project Moana Files
Posted on 19-Dec-2007 21:28:23
#91 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 23-Nov-2004
Posts: 971
From: East-Midlands (Nottingham) UK

I`d be interested to know what the Friedens think of this, I assume their kernel is in the iso.

_________________
Fraggle

- insert profound text here -

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DWolfman 
Re: Project Moana Files
Posted on 19-Dec-2007 21:38:30
#92 ]
Super Member
Joined: 18-Jun-2003
Posts: 1442
From: Leavenworth, KS USA

@Metalheart

Quote:
I'm not sure if it is possible to register the same copy of OS4 twice on the Hyperion site.... Or does OS4 run without registering ?(Rogue ? anyone ?)

I'm pretty sure that the only reason to register it was to be able to have access to the updates that they would be releasing later. At least I don't recall having to enter anything to "activate" the installation, and that's even after some of the updates that required a clean install (like Update 4, as I recall).

Quote:
So I dont think the PPC cards in classics are THE copy protection ! I would be silly...

The PPC card is the "dongle" of OS4, just like the extensions they added to the U-Boot ROM image for the AmigaOne boards. OS4 won't run on the classic without the CSPPC or BPPC card installed, just like it won't run on a Teron PPC board because it's ROM doesn't have the OS4 extensions in it.

Last edited by DWolfman on 19-Dec-2007 at 09:43 PM.

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This posting, in it's entirety, is the opinion and/or statement of the author and does not reflect the views and/or position of this site.

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vox 
Re: Project Moana Files
Posted on 20-Dec-2007 12:19:27
#93 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-Jun-2005
Posts: 3731
From: Belgrade, Serbia

@abalaban

My personal opinion based on experience is that piracy made Amiga famous, and it makes programmes wide tested and famous. As users grow to become professional they will eventualy buy originals (or will have to, in order to start bussines). So Microsoft, Corel etc. would have not a single profit from e.g East Europe, if there was no huge piracy before. It is bad for e.g. local software scene since in high piracy, nothing is worth to be made - e.g only few Amiga titles coming from Serbia.

But hardware availiability is much more important. So, Amiga dided out after the CBM because there was no new hardware (basic hardware e.g motherboards and models) and thus any product was for declining market. There was no interest in piracy on Amiga after 1996. Even then, "pirates" were actualy remains of Amiga community. I never seen someone pirated AOS4,MOS. So why screaming so much even if someone would alter few libs and drivers and make OS4 run on something new and availiable? Its called life, not death. And if some individual or group with small assets did it, it means only that the bigger company dont want to.

When I spoke of SATA in this subject I ment general support for all SATA devices and cards, and especially for MacMini board. I am glad that OS4 supports few SATA PCI controllers availiable on Vesalia etc. but that is far from real support.

I am glad AOS4 uses Altivec. I think early developer versions didnt.

_________________
Future Acube and MOS supporter, fi di good, nothing fi di unprofessionals. Learn it harder way!

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TetiSoft 
Re: Project Moana Files
Posted on 20-Dec-2007 14:20:52
#94 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 3-Mar-2005
Posts: 585
From: Germany

@vox

Quote:

vox wrote:

When I spoke of SATA in this subject I ment general support for all SATA devices and cards, and especially for MacMini board. I am glad that OS4 supports few SATA PCI controllers availiable on Vesalia etc. but that is far from real support.


This is the real support. Full and complete. Every OS4 compatible PCI SATA controller is
supported. Just in case nobody told you yet, no Mac flavour is supported, buy an AmigaOne
when you want OS4 and SATA. Complaining in public about missing OS4 drivers for
unlicensed Mac hardware does IMHO express you expect a bit too much from OS4.
IIRC MacOS can be used to use a Mac.

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Gleng 
Re: Project Moana Files
Posted on 20-Dec-2007 15:10:53
#95 ]
Super Member
Joined: 12-Dec-2004
Posts: 1071
From: Blighty

@TetiSoft

The G4 Mac minis are IDE anyway, aren't they? I'm pretty sure mine is.

_________________

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vox 
Re: Project Moana Files
Posted on 21-Dec-2007 15:32:14
#96 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-Jun-2005
Posts: 3731
From: Belgrade, Serbia

@TetiSoft

Well, AmigaOne hardware base is very limited, mostly hardly availiable as of 2008 comes. Same goes for A1 board, so no "buy A1" as longer as they slowly die out in number at homes and dont exists in shops.

Point was: use every PPC hardware out. iMac PPC is cheap and is good platform without any buggy components or cheap solutions - support just all of Radeon 9200,G4 at more then 1GHz, 512MB RAM as standard, as well as Wi-Fi,SATA,USB,Bluetooth availiable onboard. I think its PPC best buy.
Also laptops and desktops are out there too - PPC Macs

Is it that hard? Apple would give licence for his royalties and would boost sales of some of his last PPC computers. Just like having new Mac to run "all Intel" beside MacOS X, PPC Mac users would benefit OS4 while OS4 users would have Yellow Dog Linux and MacOSX PPC availiable. Nice trade dont you think?

And it takes just a bit more drivers and licences. If something like this doesnt come in some 4.2, BoingBall ... I will be disappointed in Amiga and Hyperion for not letting us play with their beloved piece of property ... which I will legaly have soon.

_________________
Future Acube and MOS supporter, fi di good, nothing fi di unprofessionals. Learn it harder way!

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jorkany 
Re: Project Moana Files
Posted on 21-Dec-2007 15:39:46
#97 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 1-May-2005
Posts: 920
From: Space Coast

@TetiSoft
Quote:
Just in case nobody told you yet, no Mac flavour is supported, buy an AmigaOne
when you want OS4 and SATA.

Not sure if you knew this, but the AmigaOne is no longer available and hasn't been in production for years.

HTH

_________________
Here for the whimpering end

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TetiSoft 
Re: Project Moana Files
Posted on 21-Dec-2007 17:25:08
#98 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 3-Mar-2005
Posts: 585
From: Germany

@jorkany

Quote:

jorkany wrote:
@TetiSoft
Quote:
Just in case nobody told you yet, no Mac flavour is supported, buy an AmigaOne
when you want OS4 and SATA.

Not sure if you knew this, but the AmigaOne is no longer available and hasn't been in production for years.

HTH


What I was trying to tell is that I have no problems with users who complain
about missing hardware for OS4 or complain about missing OS4 licenses
for existing hardware, but complaining about missing OS4 drivers for non-OS4
hardware is something which does not make sense IMHO, thats a complaint
why Hyperion did not break the contract with AInc by developing something
for non-target hardware. You cant expect that and you should not ask for that, thanks.

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umisef 
Re: Project Moana Files
Posted on 22-Dec-2007 2:04:32
#99 ]
Super Member
Joined: 19-Jun-2005
Posts: 1714
From: Melbourne, Australia

@TetiSoft

Quote:
thats a complaint
why Hyperion did not break the contract with AInc by developing something
for non-target hardware. You cant expect that and you should not ask for that, thanks.


Except Hyperion says that they have had an all-encompassing license for either the last 4 or at least the last 2.5 years.

So as long as that is the officially stated position of Hyperion, it seems more than fair to ask why, given this all-encompassing license, they do not support certain readily available hardware. The excuse *used to be* "KMOS/Amiga won't let us", but that excuse is no good in light of their officially stated view of things...

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Chip 
Re: Project Moana Files
Posted on 22-Dec-2007 9:01:37
#100 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 4-Mar-2005
Posts: 574
From: Budapest, Hungary

@vox

Quote:
I am glad AOS4 uses Altivec. I think early developer versions didnt.


FYI: Kernel level altivec support arrived in the first update on 10th of October 2004. So it's there for 3 years now.

Last edited by Chip on 22-Dec-2007 at 09:03 AM.

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