@AmigaPhil

There are some loyal Amiga Inc supporters (me), but I don´t think that this day brings good news for our parent company. What can be hidden in new documents?

@AmigaPhil

tigger is not 'supporting Amiga Inc.' but more just saying what he feels is going to happen per the evidence, and what he feels it means (basically amiga have a stronger case). i do find it funny every time someone calls him a follower, or something along that line.

_________________

@Derfs

Quote:

tigger is not 'supporting Amiga Inc.' but more just saying what he feels is going to happen per the evidence, and what he feels it means (basically amiga have a stronger case).

I'm not so sure that Amiga Inc. has a stronger case (I think there are people behind who have some experiences in business ! - that is "how to make money, and how to avoid duties when thing goes wrong".) But I agreed that Tigger interventions are more than ranting or sponsoring (sometimes boring, however ).

Quote:

i do find it funny every time someone calls him a follower, or something along that line.

Without better knowing him, or without further explanations, he looks like he want to defend AInc. by all means (at least in the discussions I followed about AInc vs Hyperion).

@AmigaPhil

Quote:

AmigaPhil wrote: Hyperion is actually doing and delivering something. They have honored most if not all of their promises. Whereas Amiga Inc. only shows up from time to time to announce an announcement about a bright future we (will) never see. So if I was to put some hope somewhere, it's (subjectively) with Hyperion.

Whenever someone says Hyperion is doing stuff, I have to say not really. They owe the Friedens (and several other developers) lots of money, they havent delivered the code to AI, though they seem to have sold it to them. Hyperion is one guy, I just dont think Evert is worth keeping in the mix, AI (or someone else) should just contract straight with the developers.

Quote:

What I am curious about is to know if YOUR position is really objective or not. I mean, IIRC, Amiga Inc. owe you some money. Is it a reason you (seem to) bet on Amiga Inc. success (to have a chance to get your money back) ? Or do you really think that Amiga has a strong case and/or deserve to stay alive and well ?

My position is based on the documents presented to the court, I think they have a much stronger case, on a personal level I think McEwen and Fleecy are idiots, I just dont think having an incompetant VP and an even more incompetant consultant means that AI should lose the court case because people like OS 4.0. If you had been around during the Thendic, Bolten or Matts trial with AI, you'd realize that I was very (and unpopularly) loud that AI was hugely at fault and was going to lose. Thats why those who have been around a long time think it funny when I'm described as a AI supporter.
-Tig

Last edited by Tigger on 18-Jan-2008 at 11:49 PM.

_________________
We played the first thing that came to our heads, it just happened to be the best song in the world.

@Tigger

Quote:

Whenever someone says Hyperion is doing stuff, I have to say not really. They owe the Friedens (and several other developers) lots of money, they havent delivered the code to AI, though they seem to have sold it to them.

Ok, but from an Amiga user (like me) point of view, that's none of our business. What we want to know is if there is a future (or at least a follow-up) for the Amiga system.

Quote:

Hyperion is one guy, I just dont think Evert is worth keeping in the mix, AI (or someone else) should just contract straight with the developers.

Maybe you are right (about Hyperion), but I don't put much faith in Amiga Inc. Too much dirty business IMHO, and a business plan (?) outside the expectations of the Amiga users base.

Quote:

My position is based on the documents presented to the court, I think they have a much stronger case, on a personal level I think McEwen and Fleecy are idiots, I just dont think having an incompetant VP and an even more incompetant consultant means that AI should lose the court case because people like OS 4.0. If you had been around during the Thendic, Bolten or Matts trial with AI, you'd realize that I was very (and unpopularly) loud that AI was hugely at fault and was going to lose. Thats why those who have been around a long time think it funny when I'm described as a AI supporter.

Thanks for your reply.
(My reading of the documents is not exactly the same as yours. But... IANAL
I think that both parties are playing dirty tricks to try to get as much as they can from the court judgement (sometimes makes me think/remind that Justice is just Usual Business in USA), but because AInc. "works" under some obscure business practises, they are in a weaker position than Hyperion.)

@Tigger

Quote:

Actually its 3 steps if you read them. We find out that Hyperions motion to join the Amino case has been denied

Whereas Amino's motion to dismiss or stay has been partly granted --- the Amino case is stayed until mediation has been completed.

@AmigaPhil

Quote:

I have no personnal interest in seeing Amiga or Hyperion "winning".

Vs.

Quote:

Hyperion is actually doing and delivering something. They have honored most if not all of their promises.

But you do have a bias.

Dammy

_________________
Dammy

@Hans

Quote:

Where does either document state that the motion to join the Amino case is denied?

That is stated in this document from the actual Hyperion vs Amino case, which, alas, appears not to be on Justia.

@ssolie

Quote:

Nice to see some decisions finally being made

To me it feels more like the cards are still being delt, but the game hasn't started yet.

Quote:

At this pace everything will be resolved around the year 2114.

That soon? What an optimist.

Well the clock on my Amiga is suppose to roll over in 2032 I think. (Amiga version of Y2k) I'll give them until then to finish up.

Plaz

Last edited by Plaz on 19-Jan-2008 at 02:05 AM.

@damocles

Quote:

But you do have a bias.

Errrr, yes, that's right

@AmigaPhil

Quote:

AmigaPhil wrote: @Tigger Quote: Whenever someone says Hyperion is doing stuff, I have to say not really. They owe the Friedens (and several other developers) lots of money, they havent delivered the code to AI, though they seem to have sold it to them. Ok, but from an Amiga user (like me) point of view, that's none of our business. What we want to know is if there is a future (or at least a follow-up) for the Amiga system.

NO NO NO

Thats the kind of thinking that got us where we are today.

Scrub your mind and get rid of that silly thought.

When AI was kicked out of there offices and taking coupon money, that was the cry, thats none of our business I just want to 1) help Amiga 2) Get OS 4 really soon 3) I like choices 1 & 2 equally, it doesnt matter about the offices.

When the Terons flaws were exposed that was none of our business, we didnt understand it was the Via part, dont look at the MAI chip behind the curtain.

When Bolten sued Amiga, that was none of our business, and they fired Bolten because he was dumb and lazy.

We need to expect MORE from the companies we do business with. We need to expect them to pay there employees, we need them to support the equipment they sell us, we need to expect them to honor warranties, we need them to deliver on schedule and if they arent going to, to let us know. Hyperion sold the code in April of 2003, then went to Amiwest and told us all about their grand plans for an OS they didnt even own. The developers didnt know till we did that the sale to Itec ever happened. You can argue now (as they do) that because of a technicality the sale didnt really occur, but thats not what they believed when they signed the contract and yet they didnt feel the need to share that info with a huge number of the developers who were working on a product that Hyperion no longer owned.
-Tig

_________________
We played the first thing that came to our heads, it just happened to be the best song in the world.

@Tigger

Quote:

NO NO NO Thats the kind of thinking that got us where we are today. [ ... ]

That's about right.

But again, as end users (not involved other ways in the Amiga business and development), there is not much we can do. We can choose to buy or not to buy a product, support a developer for his work, ... We can decide to buy OS4 from Hyperion, or not, but then we are left with (nearly) no alternatives.

Ok, if it happens that Hyperion is revealed to be really bad, I can choose to boycott OS4 and then look at something else (yeah, yeah, I can hear people screaming "Aros", "MorphOS" ).
But until then, I am still expecting to be able to buy a new Amiga (OS4) machine in a not too far future.

We also have to remember that if Hyperion is a single person (Evert Carton), OS4 is not just Hyperion. From what I've seen, the people involved in OS4 development deserve the merits for their work. It's a reason to support the OS4 team; and at the moment, that can only be done by supporting Hyperion/ACube.

AInc. has lied and used the Amiga community for too long. There's been too much effort from Amiga coders, probably partially fueled by their broken promises of a revival of the platform. Meanwhile they never had any intention of fulfilling their promises right from the start, infact they'd be more than happy if every developer had just switched to their "DE nowhere" crap. And meanwhile they're taking money from licence fees for Amiga Classic related sales and using the Amiga name presence on the internet the Amiga community has mande possible to make/get dubious investments from unknown people/companies.

So from an Amiga user's point of view they deserve to go bankrupt. To me they're just a bunch of cynic liars.

_________________

José

@AmigaPhil

Quote:

We also have to remember that if Hyperion is a single person (Evert Carton), OS4 is not just Hyperion.

First of all, Hyperion is just a single person, and second of all I dont think Hyperion has basically anything to do with OS 4. They didnt write any of it, they didnt design it, they didnt manage the effort well, they got paid by both Eyetech and AI, they owe virtually all of the developers money. The lump somes they owe the developers within 30 or 60 days of the OS being done exceed all the money they will get from selling to the classic systems. And they still will owe 100s of 1000s of dollars to the developers. AI offered to give 2M for everything, that would have been alot more money for the developers then Hyperion will ever bring in for selling OS4, so a better future for the developers is with people whose CEO doesnt work somewhere else because Hyperion doesnt make money.

Quote:

From what I've seen, the people involved in OS4 development deserve the merits for their work. It's a reason to support the OS4 team; and at the moment, that can only be done by supporting Hyperion/ACube.

The people who did the work should get paid for the work, the problem is that selling a few 100 units of Classic OS (which in late 2007 and early 2008 would be a big success) would come nowhere near paying the developers for the hours they worked in 2007, much less the debt racked up by the developers for all the previous years. Hyperion wins all the court cases, they have to come up with over 40K to give back to Itec if the buyback doesnt happen, thats more then they are likely to make from the sale of all Classic OS verions, its the same amount they made from the sale of all the AmigaOne versions since the AmigaOne went of sale after you take out the Friedens and Olafs royalty cut per unit, and thats if they win every single case. On the other hand, when they lose, they still owe all the developers, cant sell anything and oh yeah have to pay lawyers for both sides in 4 cases.
-Tig

_________________
We played the first thing that came to our heads, it just happened to be the best song in the world.

@damocles

Quote:

damocles wrote: @AmigaPhil Quote: I have no personnal interest in seeing Amiga or Hyperion "winning". Vs. Quote: Hyperion is actually doing and delivering something. They have honored most if not all of their promises. But you do have a bias. Dammy

Who doesn't?

_________________
Indigo 3D Lounge, my second home.
The Illusion of Choice | Am*ga

@umisef
Quote:

Whereas Amino's motion to dismiss or stay has been partly granted --- the Amino case is stayed until mediation has been completed.

Are both cases are now under the same judge now ?.

_________________
Sam460ex : Radeon Rx550 Single slot Video Card : SIL3112 SATA card

@pixie

Quote:

Who doesn't?

I freely admit that I am bias, I really do loath Amiga Inc. I don't think I've ever made that a secret on any forum over the years. I do not go around stating that I don't have an interest yet show bias immediate afterwards either.

Dammy

_________________
Dammy

@Spectre660

Quote:

Spectre660 wrote: @umisef Quote: Whereas Amino's motion to dismiss or stay has been partly granted --- the Amino case is stayed until mediation has been completed. Are both cases are now under the same judge now ?.

Yes. But not joined, he also told Hyperion they need to carry out mediation with Amino. That should be fun.
-Tig

_________________
We played the first thing that came to our heads, it just happened to be the best song in the world.

@Spectre660

Nope - the one case will stay in Washington, the other one will be heard in New York. I'd be very surprised indeed to see a judge travelling across the country to hear such a small case.

Which means that we'll probably see a repeat of the interminable Washington case, but this time in New York, with perhaps some minor modifications to the paperwork that gets submitted (after all, it's the same people, the same thing they're fighting over, etc). The ITEC case was deliberately separated from the Amiga Inc case, and it's quite possible that the reason was to drag things out as long as possible. Don't expect anything close to a resolution this year.

It's clear to me that Amiga Inc is making full use of its financial backing to kill off Hyperion by firing lawsuit after lawsuit (otherwise they wouldn't have a problem joining the cases). What I'd like to know is, does Bill McEwen really believe that he's going to sell enough copies of AA2 to cover all those legal fees? AA2 is going to be competing with Java and .net, and Pentti Kouri didn't get rich by throwing tons of money at a problem not expecting anything in return.

@Tigger

Are you sure? The same judge is going to fly between Washington and New York to hear a case by two one-man companies?