@jorkany

Quote:

They did, AA2. My opinion is that AInc. sees OS4 as just a contractual loose end that needs tying up, they don't see any value in OS4 itself, I doubt they ever did.

Ok, so I'll clarify that with "a desktop OS". And I'll agree with the rest of that... they may have seen some small value in OS4 at one time, now it's just become a nuisance that must be eliminated.

Quote:

What difference does it make who wins at this point? I've been saying for some time now that OS4 is a dead-end alley, it doesn't matter if it's AI Street or Hyperion Blvd.

Very little difference it seems. Hyperion Blvd for OS4 may stretch a bit farther than KMOS Rd, but with these two camps divided, both roads lead to a dead end eventually. The only other far fetched option is that Hyperion wins the "unlimited, lifetime license" due to Amiga Inc's insolvency and can some how continue the desktop OS. That's a skinny horse to bet on though. I always thought Hyperion's best fight was in keeping their existing license. Trying to include ownership of the IP in their argument is a long shot IMHO. But we'll have to see what the judge says.

Plaz

@Thread.

Wow.
What a thread.
I wonder what is happening with the mediation in Hyperion vs Amino inc ?
for me there is not much to debate in the Amiga Inc vs Hyperion suit at the moment.

_________________
Sam460ex : Radeon Rx550 Single slot Video Card : SIL3112 SATA card

Quote:

Very little difference it seems. Hyperion Blvd for OS4 may stretch a bit farther than KMOS Rd, but with these two camps divided, both roads lead to a dead end eventually. The only other far fetched option is that Hyperion wins the "unlimited, lifetime license" due to Amiga Inc's insolvency and can some how continue the desktop OS.

Question is: can we still call A1200&A4000 desktop computers ? They already belong to past... And the same goes for the so called "Aone". So: what's the point of OS4 as long as there's no hardware to run it on ?

An OS could be better than everything else, but what's the use if you restrict the hardware it may runs on ? It simply means you won't get users nor developers, you won't get software.

I thought they wanted Amiga to be "back for the future"... But the future is x86. Sorry about that. Sorry the PPC didn't take over the (desktop) world... but fact is x86 is the only way. And no one can't do anything about it. Either you live with that, either, you die... wether you want it or not.

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@Lou

Quote:

Lou wrote: @samface Quote: samface wrote: @Lou *ring* ... *ring* ... *ring* ... Hi, it's me! Remember that car I lend you a few years ago? You know, where I agreed that you could borrow it and use it for your taxi business for 6 months and that in return you'd replace my old tires? I've been kind enough to not hold a grudge for the long over due but I really want it back now. What? You couldn't find the tires I asked you to put on so instead of simply asking me where they were, you decided to not just get another set of tires but also modify it into a limousine? Just give me my car, ok? What? You want me to pay for those limousine modifications? The h*** I will! Stop fussing about and give me my car back already! What? Becasue you couldn't afford paying for the modifications, you signed over the ownership of the car to your mechanic!?!?! That's it, I'm calling my lawyer. See you in court! *click* That is not a proper reply to what you quoted. Nothing is stopping KMOS from developing and releasing a successor to OS4. Nothing.

Read it again. What matters is not if KMOS can waste money and years on reverse engineering AmigaOS4 or not and nobody ever said otherwise. You could just as well be arguing that the earth is round, not flat. If you would instead get back to the issues involved, turn on your ability to reason and follow a sensible line of thought, my little drama might actually open up a new perspective for you.

_________________
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MINDRELEASE.net - The Non-Commercial Network of Digital Arts.

Samworks D & C - Professional Web Development (in Swedish)

@Leo

I fully agree; like it or not, x386 is the way to go. IF OS4, or even the fabled OS5, came out for the current PC's, we'd have tons of users - old and new. I really wish this would get resolved already, so we can go on and enjoy Amiga once again; in a modern way.

Ed

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Amiga 1200 - ACA 1233 68030 128MB Ram
8GB CF With tons of Classics

AmigaOne X5000

Raspberry PI 400 - PiMiga 1.5
"That which doesn't kill you, only makes you stronger" - Someone important, but I forgot who

@edponpon

Finally! i will have a use for my 386/33 after all this time!!

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@Spectre660

Quote:

Spectre660 wrote: @Thread. Wow. What a thread. I wonder what is happening with the mediation in Hyperion vs Amino inc ? for me there is not much to debate in the Amiga Inc vs Hyperion suit at the moment.

Thread started back up over the 3 new documents we got last month and the 5th lawsuit for Hyperion, this one in Trademark court. The additional docs at the USPTO (AI's response from 1-16-08 for instance) are pretty interesting and showing how desperate Hyperion is at the moment.
-Tig

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@Tigger
Quote:

The additional docs at the USPTO (AI's response from 1-16-08 for instance) are pretty interesting and showing how desperate Hyperion is at the moment. -Tig.

why should Hyperion worry.?
I am sure that if the worst should come they are aware of Bill MC's and Pentii'd" Making your debts vanish" methods.

_________________
Sam460ex : Radeon Rx550 Single slot Video Card : SIL3112 SATA card

@Spectre660

will be hard for a VOF company

@Totally_Blind_Mule

Quote:

Totally_Blind_Mule wrote: @Spectre660 will be hard for a VOF company

Would be impossible for a VOF company, the owners are directly responsible for the debts of a VOF, so Evert is responsible and Ben seems to have escaped, I wonder if that was the real plan.
-Tig

_________________
We played the first thing that came to our heads, it just happened to be the best song in the world.

@Thread,

Can someone please summarize the current state of the lawsuit for those (like me) that don't want to read through the hundreds of messages and offsite documents?

Also, has anyone thought that the developers of OS4 might just leak it to the Net if Hyperion loses rather than let Amiga Inc. have it and make any profit from their work? I could see them being so ####ed off that they just release all their code and walk away forever from Amiga development.

_________________
Amiga! The computer that inspired so many, to accomplish so much, but has ended up in the hands of . . . . . . . . . .

@Totally_Blind_Mule
Quote:

will be hard for a VOF company.

This was just me trying some humor.

I think that Amiga Inc case was struck a fatal blow a long time ago and they are
"Bleeding to death" slowly.
It was self inflicted and it is just a matter of time.

_________________
Sam460ex : Radeon Rx550 Single slot Video Card : SIL3112 SATA card

@Leo

Quote:

An OS could be better than everything else, but what's the use if you restrict the hardware it may runs on ?

There's been other speculation that if Hyperion gets to keep their license, that they would be able to partner with a new A1 maker. I'm sure that if KMOS were to loose, Hyperion making A1 boards would be part of the next lawsuit that KMOS would file.

Plaz

Last edited by Plaz on 05-Mar-2008 at 12:18 AM.

@Spectre660

Quote:

Spectre660 wrote: I think that Amiga Inc case was struck a fatal blow a long time ago and they are "Bleeding to death" slowly. It was self inflicted and it is just a matter of time.

Most of us who have been following the case would agree, the problem is I get from your tone that you think Hyperion is going to win, and really the latest documents in the case dont support that analysis.
-Tig

_________________
We played the first thing that came to our heads, it just happened to be the best song in the world.

@Tigger
Quote:

Most of us who have been following the case would agree, the problem is I get from your tone that you think Hyperion is going to win, and really the latest documents in the case dont support that analysis. -Tig.

If neither side wins lawsuit "Amiga Inc vs Hyperion Vof" then OS4 stays with Hyperion.....
Amiga Inc's lawyers have seen the possibility of this and have filed a motion to amend their initial complaint.
You Americans like to use the phrase " if it ain't broke then don't fix it".
Mean while the judge has been handed "Hyperion Vof vs Amino" to deal with.
The return of Amino Inc now gives the Judge a chance to get more insight about the early days of whole OS4.0 affair. We thus will have to wait for more from "Hyperion vs Amino" before he rules on any more motions etc in "Amiga INC vs Hyperion".

meanwhile the European courts may place a lien on OS4 to protect the rights of certain developers who have filed suit to protect themselves.

See any winners yet ?

_________________
Sam460ex : Radeon Rx550 Single slot Video Card : SIL3112 SATA card

@Spectre660

Quote:

If neither side wins lawsuit "Amiga Inc vs Hyperion Vof" then OS4 stays with Hyperion.....

First of all, its fairly impossible for neither side to win. Secondly unless Hyperion wins, and wins big, the contract is cancelled and OS 4 is at best in Limbo.

Quote:

Amiga Inc's lawyers have seen the possibility of this and have filed a motion to amend their initial complaint. You Americans like to use the phrase " if it ain't broke then don't fix it".

I think it funny Hyperion has amended there claim twice (and is going to have to do it again at least once) and you think thats a non issue, but AI asks to amend there claim and you think thats a pivotal part of the case.

Quote:

Mean while the judge has been handed "Hyperion Vof vs Amino" to deal with. The return of Amino Inc now gives the Judge a chance to get more insight about the early days of whole OS4.0 affair. We thus will have to wait for more from "Hyperion vs Amino" before he rules on any more motions etc in "Amiga INC vs Hyperion".

The judge cannot wait for Hyperion vs Amino to resolve before he moved AI vs Hyperion forward anymore then he can wait for any of the other 4 cases.

Quote:

meanwhile the European courts may place a lien on OS4 to protect the rights of certain developers who have filed suit to protect themselves.

They arent even asking for that, so it would strange for the court to grant them a right they didnt ask for, if the developers get any kind of ruling that just helps AI and hurts Hyperion, so I'm not sure why you even bring that into this picture.

Quote:

See any winners yet ?

Yeah, everyone except Hyperion.
-Tig

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We played the first thing that came to our heads, it just happened to be the best song in the world.

@amigadave

Quote:

amigadave wrote: @Thread, Can someone please summarize the current state of the lawsuit for those (like me) that don't want to read through the hundreds of messages and offsite documents?

Technically there are currently 5 lawsuits.

1) Amiga vs Hyperion - Amiga is asking for a judgement on the pleadings, the result of that is liable to happen in the next week or so.

2) Andre and the Brothers Frieden vs Amiga Inc & Hyperion - This case was filed in Belgium, basically 3 of the developers are suing for the court to say they own there work because Hyperion hasnt paid them.

3) Itec vs Hyperion - Itec is suing Hyperion in court in New York to force Hyperion to comply with the 2003 sales agreement.

4) Hyperion vs Amino - A case filed by Hyperion against Amino, its currently in arbitration set up by the judge for case #1, if arbitration is not successful then he will preside on the case in court.

5) Hyperion vs Amiga - Trademark case at the USPTO, Hyperion has no chance of winning the Trademarks, if they get very lucky they might be able to block AI from acquiring one or more of the 5 in dispute, but the primary trademarks are not a point of contention which Hyperion appears to not understand.

Quote:

Also, has anyone thought that the developers of OS4 might just leak it to the Net if Hyperion loses rather than let Amiga Inc. have it and make any profit from their work? I could see them being so ####ed off that they just release all their code and walk away forever from Amiga development.

Leaking AI's IP onto the net would not be a clever plan. I still would love for someone to explain this love of Evert that a bunch of you have.
-Tig

_________________
We played the first thing that came to our heads, it just happened to be the best song in the world.

@Tigger

Quote:

Tigger wrote: @Dandy ... I'm sorry Dandy, you are wrong here. Look at what you said above: AInc ordered Olaf to rework the 3.1 sources. That didnt happen,

That's right - I thought this would be obvious from the parts of the contract I quoted...

Quote:

Tigger wrote: Olaf reworked the sources during the AT days, look at his email with Fleecy and his email with McEwen (where he tells us about his payment schedule),

I found the email from Fleecy (document 26, attachment 8, page 12), but not the one from McBill.

Yes, Olaf reworked the sources during the AT days.

Quote:

Tigger wrote: plus Olafs contract with Hyperion, it says he did the work while working at Amiga Technologies, see you arent right on this.

Sorry, but according to the contract he did not work at Amiga Technologies - he was a contractor for Amiga Technologies G.m.b.H. - like he was contracted by Hyperion.

"G.m.b.H." indicates it was a Germany based company, so I think Petro still was in charge.

Quote:

Tigger wrote: As for promising to pay him, read what Fleecy actually says about that, he told Schmidt they should buy Olafs work, thats not a contractual obligation to do it, and its surely not getting him to do the work, because the work was done before Gateway bought Amiga.

Obviously he was contracted by Petro's "Amiga Technologies" to do the job - so possibly Gateway didn't feel obligated to honour the contract between Olaf and AT - just like AInc.(D) with regard to Bolton Peck's claims against AInc(W).

But without having the contract(s) at hand to see what was agreed it all is just pure speculation...

Quote:

Tigger wrote: ... Quote: When was Olaf working on OS 4.0 - was he an OS 4 Developer? Must have missed that... Go read Annex I and Annex II of the 2001 contract, Olaf is listed all through it.

Yes - when it comes to his work on the 3.1 sources and the CVS - but I was asking if he really did actively work on OS4.0 and meant by that if he was coding natively for it - that's what I understand a "Developer" is for.

Quote:

Tigger wrote: Quote: I never said Olaf or the Friedens were speculating... You said we were speculating about whether the developers were happy,

Yes...

Quote:

Tigger wrote: we have emails from 2006 which show that they were owed lots of money and not really happing about it,

Can you provide a link to those mails?

Quote:

Tigger wrote: Olaf said he would have been better off flipping burgers then working on OS4,

As hei did not work on OS4 (AFAIK), this statement seems to be correct...

Quote:

Tigger wrote: so I dont think its speculating that Olaf was not happy with the situation.

Ahh - interesting - what else would you call it?
Maybe I can learn a new term for it now...

Quote:

Tigger wrote: ... As for what Rogue said, I cant take seriously anyone who issuing his employer to maintain rights on there software and then tell us its business as usual. How often have you sued you employer as part of business as usual?

How serious am I supposed to take people that can't distinguish between "suing his employer" and "asking the involved parties for a clear statement of ownership/copyright which is legally binding"?

Last edited by Dandy on 05-Mar-2008 at 07:55 AM.
Last edited by Dandy on 05-Mar-2008 at 07:54 AM.

_________________
Ciao

Dandy
__________________________________________
If someone enjoys marching to military music, then I already despise him.
He got his brain accidently - the bone marrow in his back would have been sufficient for him!
(Albert Einstein)

Quote:

There's been other speculation that if Hyperion gets to keep their license, that they would be able to partner with a new A1 maker. I'm sure that if KMOS were to loose, Hyperion making A1 boards would be part of the next lawsuit that KMOS would file.

I'm sorry, but what's that nonsense ?!

The OS should have been *opened* to any hardware since the begining... If the contract restricts the OS to certain partner this is completly stupid...

There have been *open* hardware (yes PPC for some time), fully working, and available in enough quantity for OS4 (yes I think about Pegasos II for example) for a long time. This is simply stupid OS4 couldn't (and haven't) have been ported to these platforms.

This isn't a question of "you are from the blue camp, I don't like you", but more a question of giving the best chances to your system to become successfull... So from the begining it should have been opened... Or it means your personnal interests/feelings are more important than the success of your product...

But after all I guess that's what the Amiga has always been about... Personnal interests... And that's why it's no more despite the fact it was for some time better than everything else...

Last edited by Leo on 05-Mar-2008 at 08:21 AM.

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@Kronos

Quote:

Kronos wrote: @Lou The pre-releases (atleast the early ones) didn't even come close in matching what was outlined in the contract, therefore they can't be "the release" starting the deadlines. Hyperion decided NOT to call them (proper) releases, and NOT to inform AInc that they thought the deadline has started, either because they didn't consider it ready, or because they didn't want fullfill other obligations tied to OS4 being "released". The whole "OS4 was released in 2004" is just a rather flimpsy atempt at rewriting history, and it's gonna need more then one stupid judge to make it work.

Document #26, attachment #4, page 14 of 15

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Ciao

Dandy
__________________________________________
If someone enjoys marching to military music, then I already despise him.
He got his brain accidently - the bone marrow in his back would have been sufficient for him!
(Albert Einstein)