@Dandy

Quote:

Good explanation. There's just one hitch with it - why is it necessary to produce an "Developer Pre-Release CD" for the developers who developed the fuc*ing thing? I mean - the developers developed what is on that CD - they have the sources, they can compile running copies from that and burn them on CDs as much as they like - so why the hell do you think it is necessary to produce an CD for them "at (conceptually) great cost"? To me that makes no sense at all. It would make sense if the devs said: "O.K. - we're done so far. The work can go gold now, a "Master CD" can be produced and consequently be sent to the processing laboratory for the "mass production" and then get publically released." Such are my thoughts when I read "Developer Pre-Release goes gold" - I would never ever get the strange idea that this "golden Developer Pre-Release CD" is just produced for the developers who developed the stuff and have it anyway.

Dude, get a clue. If it's a developer pre-release, it's obviously it's not the final release to the public, now is it? if it's not the final public release, obviously the project is NOT FINIISHED YET. Hyperion obviously, with full intentions, labeled it as such for a REASON. Whatever reason it was which; was mostly likely not having to pay the Devs for their hard work, is now come home to roost.

What has really funny is those most of who you are spending enormous amount of time debating with, probably dislike AI more then YOU do. Have you not realized yet, for the most part, those are not AI supporters that are spending alot of time explaining to you why you are wrong? If we, who for the most part, who really dislike AI that much are siding with AI on this, what will a jury who is neutral to AI going to decide? Give you a big hint, they don't want to be there in the first place and highly unlikely to be impressed with weasel wording and obfuscating that Hyperion has attempted. If AI's attorney can make a simple and plain case to the jury, stick a fork in Hyperion, Evert is done.

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Dammy

@Step

Quote:

Step wrote: @Dandy Quote: There's just one hitch with it - why is it necessary to produce an "Developer Pre-Release CD" for the developers who developed the fuc*ing thing? I think you are missing a point, third party developers are often supplied with early versions to adapt their own projects or get a headstart on developing new games/programs.

There are three parties to the case at hand:
First, AInc; second Hyperion and the third party is "the Developers" (= the Friedens etc.).

The "third party developers" you're talking about are in no way party to the "Amiga Inc v. Hyperion VOF" (title of this thread) case.

Why do you think that people, who are not remotedly contractually bound to this project (developers or not), should get a copy of this work before its publically released?

Without being contractually bound (like with some NDA) they could do anything with such a "present"...

And although I followed the news I'm not aware that it had ever been announced somewhere that developers could ask for/were sent a copy of OS 4.0.

Quote:

Step wrote: The developer pre-release was just that, an early version for developers that wasn't part of the OS developments. It's a good thing if the OS actually has some software ready when it's time to start selling it to the public.

While I fully agree that "it's a good thing if the OS actually has some software ready when it's time to start selling it to the public", I wholeheartedly disagree that the CD in question was meant "for developers that wasn't part of the OS developments".

That would equal to economic suicide IMO, if they gave away copies of an unreleased OS for free and without any non-disclosure agreements...

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Ciao

Dandy
__________________________________________
If someone enjoys marching to military music, then I already despise him.
He got his brain accidently - the bone marrow in his back would have been sufficient for him!
(Albert Einstein)

@NitrousB

the AmigaOne-SE was a developer board, I think only beta tester did have this, after a while they where sold on E-bay.

AmigaOS4 predevelopers CD was given to any one that did buy AmigaOne-XE whit debain linux installed (like me).

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@Dandy

Quote:

Absolutely no idea why you think I swore anywhere. Can you please point me to where I swore something (an oath, e.g.)? Can it be possible you took me for someone else?

Quote:

for the developers who developed the fuc*ing thing?

If thats not you, i'm sorry. Or did you mean some other word...???

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A500,A500+ and so on.....AmigaOS4.1....1500-2000 games!?
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@damocles

Quote:

damocles wrote: @Dandy Quote: Good explanation. There's just one hitch with it - why is it necessary to produce an "Developer Pre-Release CD" for the developers who developed the fuc*ing thing? I mean - the developers developed what is on that CD - they have the sources, they can compile running copies from that and burn them on CDs as much as they like - so why the hell do you think it is necessary to produce an CD for them "at (conceptually) great cost"? To me that makes no sense at all. It would make sense if the devs said: "O.K. - we're done so far. The work can go gold now, a "Master CD" can be produced and consequently be sent to the processing laboratory for the "mass production" and then get publically released." Such are my thoughts when I read "Developer Pre-Release goes gold" - I would never ever get the strange idea that this "golden Developer Pre-Release CD" is just produced for the developers who developed the stuff and have it anyway. Dude, get a clue.

I'm trying desperately - but the arguments presented so far are unluckily not sufficiant to convince me - can't you come up with arguments that actually convince me?

Arguments, that don't open up new questions for me?

As long as there are still open questions for me from your arguments I will ask them - be assured.


Quote:

damocles wrote: If it's a developer pre-release, it's obviously it's not the final release to the public, now is it?

That's the question I repeatedly asked myself...

Quote:

damocles wrote: if it's not the final public release, obviously the project is NOT FINIISHED YET.

Even if it had been the public release the project status still could be "NOT FINIISHED YET", as I understand it that way, that the "OS 4.0" project ends with the availability of "OS 4.1" and the "OS 4" project ends when "OS 5" becomes publically availabe.

But maybe you have a different definition for that...

Quote:

damocles wrote: Hyperion obviously, with full intentions, labeled it as such for a REASON. Whatever reason it was which; was mostly likely not having to pay the Devs for their hard work, is now come home to roost.

I'd be carefull with such unsubstantiated accusations...

Quote:

damocles wrote: What has really funny is those most of who you are spending enormous amount of time debating with, probably dislike AI more then YOU do.

Do you speak English (or German)?

Quote:

damocles wrote: Have you not realized yet, for the most part, those are not AI supporters that are spending alot of time explaining to you why you are wrong?

I realized that the arguments presented to me so far were not sufficiant to convince me...

Quote:

damocles wrote: If we, who for the most part, who really dislike AI that much are siding with AI on this, what will a jury who is neutral to AI going to decide?

You really should ask this qustion to the jury...

Quote:

damocles wrote: Give you a big hint, they don't want to be there in the first place and highly unlikely to be impressed with weasel wording and obfuscating that Hyperion has attempted. If AI's attorney can make a simple and plain case to the jury, stick a fork in Hyperion, Evert is done.

Yes - if...

Last edited by Dandy on 18-Mar-2008 at 02:13 PM.

_________________
Ciao

Dandy
__________________________________________
If someone enjoys marching to military music, then I already despise him.
He got his brain accidently - the bone marrow in his back would have been sufficient for him!
(Albert Einstein)

@Dandy

Quote:

That would equal to economic suicide IMO, if they gave away copies of an unreleased OS for free and without any non-disclosure agreements...

They weren't for free, they were part of a developer system that developers had to buy, though its not uncommon for a company to give away stuff like it for free. Be certainly gave me a free developer copy long before BeOS was avaible for the public, and microsoft does it all the time too with their software.

Sometimes it's hard to admit your wrong i guess.

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AMiGA

@Step

Quote:

They weren't for free, they were part of a developer system that developers had to buy, though its not uncommon for a company to give away stuff like it for free. Be certainly gave me a free developer copy long before BeOS was avaible for the public, and microsoft does it all the time too with their software.

I bought a system, and I'm not a developer.
It does surprise me how people in this thread, can apply different logic to similar situations, to back up their case.

_________________
Peter Swallow.
A1XEG3-800 [IBM 750FX PowerPC], running OS4.1FE, using ac97 onboard sound.

"There are 10 types of people in the world: those who understand binary, and those who don't."

@Dandy

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Do you speak English (or German)?

I highly doubt it would matter to you, either way.

Quote:

I realized that the arguments presented to me so far were not sufficiant to convince me...

I suspect if the jury's verdict comes out as most of us predicted, you won't accept it either.

Quote:

I'd be carefull with such unsubstantiated accusations...

Then explain to me where all the money has gone to that Evert has recieved from sales of OS4 to Itec, OS4 on A1s and now OS4 on Classic? Devs all paid off from that?

Dammy

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Dammy

@Swoop

Quote:

I bought a system, and I'm not a developer.

Well doh, what you end up doing or not doing with the developer system doesn't change it's purpose.

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AMiGA

@Dandy

Quote:

There's just one hitch with it - why is it necessary to produce an "Developer Pre-Release CD" for the developers who developed the fuc*ing thing?

The developer pre-release was not released for the OS developers, but for the application developers. Who, strangely enough, did not develop the OS, and thus did not have the OS, yet still wanted to be able to develop applications for the time when OS4 was finished.

Now why people like Helgis and Atheist2 bought developer boards, you will have to ask them...

There, was that so hard to understand?

@Dandy

Quote:

Can you please be a little bit more specific with your accusation I would "twist everything"?

Well, for example, your suggestion that Olaf "was ordered" to do the work on the OS3.1 sources is in *direct* contradiction to Olaf's own admission that he was not ordered. Your suggestion that the thing delivered in 2004 was a release is in direct contradiction to what's written on it. And so on...

@umisef

At one time the boards where sold as "AmigaOne Early Bird systems" and
that is why i bought my SE, to support Eyetech and Hyperion.

link: http://www.amigahistory.co.uk/press/2ndnov2002.html

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@Dandy

Quote:

I wholeheartedly disagree that the CD in question was meant "for developers that wasn't part of the OS developments"

Uh, which part of "We have a team of about 30 developers working on the OS" and "We have shipped more or less 1000 copies of the developer pre-release" did you interpret as "The developer pre-release was meant for 30 OS developers, which is why we made up a fancy cover for it".

Or do you disagree with the proven fact that the damn thing had "developer pre-release" written all over it? Do you think they did that just for kicks? If so, how do you explain that the CD contained all sorts of developer goodies, including (at least according to the original announcements) cross-compilers for a variety of non-OS4 systems?

Quote:

That would equal to economic suicide IMO, if they gave away copies of an unreleased OS for free and without any non-disclosure agreements...

Which just *may* be why it didn't happen. Look, all the people who were sent a developer pre-release CD bought an AmigaOne motherboard and as part of that purchase *paid* for an OEM copy of OS4, which was always going to be just around the corner... And the damn thing came with license agreements and warnings about copying.

So, tell me again how delivering an incomplete product, months or in cases years after people paid for it, is any more commercial suicide than not delivering the product would be?

Last edited by umisef on 08-Mar-2008 at 01:31 PM.

@Dirk-B

Quote:

At one time the boards where sold as "AmigaOne Early Bird systems" and that is why i bought my SE, to support Eyetech and Hyperion. link: http://www.amigahistory.co.uk/press/2ndnov2002.html

That's how I bought mine, as an Early Bird system, which included OS4 in the price, not as a developer board. If I remember correctly the developer boards didn't include OS4, and those developers had to purchase their copy of OS4, presumably from Hyperion, or through their dealer.

_________________
Peter Swallow.
A1XEG3-800 [IBM 750FX PowerPC], running OS4.1FE, using ac97 onboard sound.

"There are 10 types of people in the world: those who understand binary, and those who don't."

@Swoop

Quote:

That's how I bought mine, as an Early Bird system, which included OS4 in the price,

At which point did you consider the copy of consumer-release OS4 which you paid for as delivered?

Replying to flipper, I wrote:

Quote:

nothing new yet on the US PTO regarding the trademarks battle (maybe around mid-March ?)

Amiga Inc. has been granted a motion to suspend the proceeding (before the Trademark Trial and Appeal Board) for 180 days, as both parties are engaged in negociations. Proceedings will resume on 11 September 2008, unless any party requests resumption sooner.

@AmigaPhil

Quote:

as both parties are engaged in negociations.

Are you referring to the court ordered "mediation"?

#6

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In recent months os4 can be sold?

@umisef

Quote:

umisef wrote: @Swoop Quote: That's how I bought mine, as an Early Bird system, which included OS4 in the price, At which point did you consider the copy of consumer-release OS4 which you paid for as delivered?

This might shed some light over The Early Bird.

Regarding the point, well, considering this ( from here ):
Quote:

I'm still unhappy. I want my full OS4-OEM disk just as I thought I was getting Thats OK. As soon as your OS4-PR disk drops through the letter box please return the whole package to us UNOPENED and we will send you out the full OEM version, free of charge, when it is released in a few months time.

So, if you have opened the OS4-PR cd, then that together with the updates is your OEM-version, and if not, then you are still waiting for the A1-OS4 OEM-cd.

Last edited by tomazkid on 17-Mar-2008 at 10:56 PM.

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@umisef

Quote:

umisef wrote: @Swoop Quote: That's how I bought mine, as an Early Bird system, which included OS4 in the price, At which point did you consider the copy of consumer-release OS4 which you paid for as delivered?

I'd say the day I got it.


They way I equate it is like XP Home and XP Pro. Except in this case the "Pro" part was just some extra "early developers tools" and was included on "Full Release" of XP Home for FREE.


You see the Developer Pre-Release to me was just the regular OS4 + Early Developer content included. Where as a regular full OS4 disc, had they just sent that, would have still been the exact same OS4, but just would not have included all the extra developer stuff.

They included the 100% full comercial relase of AOS4 + Some of whatever was avilable for Developers.

Is that hard to understand??

They didn't have to include the developer PreRelease stuff, but I thought it was nice to put it on as extra.

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