@ohno

Thanks for your input in discussion. So, it doesn't suck that much. That's positive. I would ask more questions (like, what except 2D is provided) but if you don't know what your NDA lets you to share, I will not press here.

Thanks again.

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@ohno

Quote:

The examples-folder in the SDK contains a simple breakout game in 330 lines of code, including lots of comments. The game has graphics onscreen and plays music and sounds.

And it is fast and smooth like with the AA1 ? If yes, what machine/cpu did you test it on ?

Someone says the performance are much weaker with AA2...

_________________
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AmigaOS, the last hope...

@opi

Quote:

I would ask more questions (like, what except 2D is provided) but if you don't know what your NDA lets you to share, I will not press here.

In the first version, it seems the focus is on single-player mobile 2D games. So the API provides for things like 2D graphics/bobs, audio (music, samples). The AA2 console also provides a couple of convenience tools for packaging up your distribution and for creating imagesets from images for example.
There still are some obvious things missing, but they are asking for developer-feedback and I believe they will add those things soon.

@Zorro

Quote:

Someone says the performance are much weaker with AA2...

Keep in mind that my experience so far is limited to just a couple of hours of playing around with the SDK this weekend, so I have to go with first impressions and I may not be the best source of information.
Having said that, I cannot believe that statement about performance being weaker than AA since they actually stripped out a layer (Intent) and now compile C/C++ code straight to the native target executable. It should be as fast as it can get, unless the compiler does something weird (haven't noticed that myself so far).

I did notice however that the screen-updates on the Windows executable were not as smooth as on the Windows Mobile devices. But logic dictates that that cannot be a performance issue, since otherwise the less powerful mobile devices should have been less smooth.
It probably is an issue with timing in their current Windows implementation. It doesn't bother me too much since this is just an initial release that will get better and it's currently still good enough for me. They can fix those kind of issues in their library without me having to change a single line of code. My focus is on mobile development for now and it's just nice that I can quickly test the binaries on my development machine without having to deploy to a the mobile device or emulator first.

@ohno

Quote:

Keep in mind that my experience so far is limited to just a couple of hours of playing around with the SDK this weekend, so I have to go with first impressions and I may not be the best source of information. (CUT)

Your reply is detailed and very interesting to me, thanks...

_________________
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AmigaOS, the last hope...

@ohno

Quote:

Personally, I think the SDK should be free and open to anyone for download and the documents free to browse through for anyone.

No one seems to be disagreeing with this from the community so far, it seems rather obvious even, plain common sense. Have you suggested this to them since you have a bit more of their ear probably as a registered developer, since you say they are encouraging developer input on AA2?

Last edited by fairlanefastback on 20-Feb-2008 at 09:50 PM.

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@fairlanefastback

Quote:

fairlanefastback wrote: @ohno Quote: Personally, I think the SDK should be free and open to anyone for download and the documents free to browse through for anyone. No one seems to be disagreeing with this from the community so far, it seems rather obvious even, plain common sense. Have you suggested this to them since you have a bit more of their ear probably as a registered developer, since you say they are encouraging developer input on AA2?

Were it truly open, they would be unable to sign you up for their forced distribution scheme, something quite insane if you look at the details.

There are ways to get technologies adopted:
- B2B deals, assuming you have something of use to offer other companies. Then sure, the tech may well remain under NDA to some extent.
- promote it's use to 'anyone,' in other words...make it freely available and open to inspection, and let natural selection have at it.

Somehow I don't see either happening here..unless they get quite lucky, while they've already nixed the second option...

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@wegster Quote:

sign you up for their forced distribution scheme

That sounds quite inflammatory, but would you care to elaborate?

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It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue...

Here we have a good example of why Microsoft is making billions while Amiga Inc is not:

Microsoft announces games for Zune via XNA Studio.

When this is released in a couple of months, one will be able to use regular Visual Studio to create games for Zunes. The XNA framework is free to download, comes with all developer tools and docs that one needs, and it works with the freebie version of Visual Studio one can download from microsoft.com (it's the same full compiler, debugger and IDE as the payware version - the stuff you don't get is SQL server, charting, source control, etc). So if you want to make games for the Zune, all you need to spend is a couple of hours downloading stuff.

Any issues about the quality of Zunes or MS software aside, this is exactly the right attitude to have when you're the underdog (the market share of Zune vs iPod is in the ballpark of Mac vs Windows, so MS is the underdog in this case). I don't think one can argue that MS's huge cash pile gives them an unfair advantage in this situation, because my understanding is that the Amiga SDK is free as well. Amiga Inc are just being difficult about who they let play with it. And that is why I predict that a year from now, even though Zunes are such a tiny minority, there will be more Zune games than AA2 games (that can run on any PocketPC - easily a 1000x bigger install base).

@ChrisH

Quote:

ChrisH wrote: @wegster Quote: sign you up for their forced distribution scheme That sounds quite inflammatory, but would you care to elaborate?

I would care to, but should not. However, you should be able to get a copy of the agreement easily enough, assuming they continue to check for dev applications and respond.

I'll have to leave it at 'not favorable terms for a company that actually wants to see their SDK adopted by many developers.'

Again, I just can't see a strong selling point there...maybe something will change my mind in time, but I don't see anything compelling there for most individual developers. It may be possible they're trying to target bigger fish, but I'm just not seeing it...those would certainly not be agreeable to the terms of the individual developer agreement.

_________________
Are we not done with the same silly arguments and flames yet??!

@CodeSmith

You can't make mony with the free Visual Studio, it's only for private.

In the doc:
"PERSONAL AND NON-COMMERCIAL USE LIMITATION.
Unless otherwise specified, the Services are for your personal and non-commercial use."

Last edited by linnar on 21-Feb-2008 at 06:23 AM.

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@CodeSmith

Interesting example of why Microsoft is making billions... the Zune!?!?! LOL!

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@samface

Quote:

samface wrote: @CodeSmith Interesting example of why Microsoft is making billions... the Zune!?!?! LOL!

Thats not what his post says, nor how it reads. He is giving an example of the good move it is to make developer tools freely available, especially if you are the underdog in something. He specifically alludes to the Zune being the underdog product in the market of MP3 players. His point, quite clearly made, is that since Amiga is the ultimate underdog, that making their SDK hard to get is very much not smart, and that they could use taking a lesson from MS here (or common sense).

Last edited by fairlanefastback on 21-Feb-2008 at 07:23 AM.

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Amiga 1200

@linnar

Quote:

linnar wrote: @CodeSmith You can't make mony with the free Visual Studio, it's only for private. In the doc: "PERSONAL AND NON-COMMERCIAL USE LIMITATION. Unless otherwise specified, the Services are for your personal and non-commercial use."

No problem. Anyone can download the fully functional Visual Studio 2008 Professional Edition (90-day Trial) here, very easily:

http://tinyurl.com/2qwdbn

Last edited by fairlanefastback on 21-Feb-2008 at 07:30 AM.

_________________
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Amikit user, tinkering with Icaros VM (AROS)
EFIKA owner
Amiga 1200

@linnar

Quote:

You can't make mony with the free Visual Studio, it's only for private.

Nope, but you can develop a full blown application, and purchase a professional license once it's complete. You therefore only really need to pay for your development software a couple of days *before* your software is ready to go live.

@linnar

From the FAQ ("http://www.microsoft.com/express/support/faq/):

"Can I use Express Editions for commercial use?
Yes, there are no licensing restrictions for applications built using Visual Studio Express Editions

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@wegster

Quote:

Were it truly open, they would be unable to sign you up for their forced distribution scheme, something quite insane if you look at the details.

And the great Lord giveith with one handith, then slaps you in the pus with the otherith handith...

Amiga finaly gains some measure of credibility with the release of the SDK, then takes it all back again in one fell swoop. Who ever came up with this business model should do the decent thing and roll over and die, before the business model does.

Limited control over something is better than total control over nothing.*





* From the big book of boardroom slogans.

Last edited by SpaceDruid on 21-Feb-2008 at 10:44 AM.

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@SpaceDruid

I am not sure about AA2 (haven't read it properly), but IIRC with AA1, the business model was as follows - you develop your apps, and you agree to sell them via Amiga Inc.'s portal. They do take care of accounting, etc., and they take some tens of percent of the price. They are granted being exclusive distributors of your product.

As for developers, I am not sure such model is good for them. But when you will look into mobile market, it is not imo uncommon. It is just that Amiga does not have any devices, like e.g. Nokia has

As for me, it is very restrictive model. R3 will kill AA2 in few months ....

Cheers,
Petr

@fairlanefastback

Quote:

fairlanefastback wrote: @linnar Quote: linnar wrote: @CodeSmith You can't make mony with the free Visual Studio, it's only for private. In the doc: "PERSONAL AND NON-COMMERCIAL USE LIMITATION. Unless otherwise specified, the Services are for your personal and non-commercial use." No problem. Anyone can download the fully functional Visual Studio 2008 Professional Edition (90-day Trial) here, very easily: http://tinyurl.com/2qwdbn

Yes I know!

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@Pleng

Quote:

Pleng wrote: @linnar Quote: You can't make mony with the free Visual Studio, it's only for private. Nope, but you can develop a full blown application, and purchase a professional license once it's complete. You therefore only really need to pay for your development software a couple of days *before* your software is ready to go live.

Uhhh !!

_________________
There are very interesting in all languages.
http://www.kensonpro.com
Program, codes for websites, hifi, measuring instruments and more. The site is of more than 1200 pages and nearly 3Gb .