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fibi 
Re: New AMIGA game 68k
Posted on 7-Mar-2008 19:44:44
#81 ]
Member
Joined: 21-Apr-2007
Posts: 22
From: Poland

@BigGun


I have only 1 question, just 1 question... Pls tell me , do U think there will be possibility to put Natami in orginal A1200 desktop case or any other ?? Mean without using of PCI port ofcourse

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wegster 
Re: New AMIGA game 68k
Posted on 7-Mar-2008 22:39:23
#82 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 29-Nov-2004
Posts: 8554
From: RTP, NC USA

@BigGun

Thanks for the followup.

It still seems like a site update or a brief visit could deal with some of the questions, but yes, forums can certainly be a time sink.

You mentioned pricing like SAM or A1s - is that for a complete system?

If that were to be with a PPC CPU, that would certainly appeal to many..if 68k only, it's pricing some out of their range for bang/buck.

Either way, this is a very neat project, and I hope to see it completed..maybe something will change regarding pricing. If at some point a PPC version is available and OS4 runs on it...I'd still be interested at that price range.

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Are we not done with the same silly arguments and flames yet??!

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Hammer 
Re: New AMIGA game 68k
Posted on 8-Mar-2008 0:00:13
#83 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Mar-2003
Posts: 4668
From: Australia

@BigGun

Quote:
What you say is only correct for a LOW DETAIL and LOW QUALITY case.

Other voxel examples has data sets 21MB and 9MB. Similar cache success rates.

http://www.realtimeraytrace.de/
RT Raytrace game and benchmarks.

Quote:
But the Natami algorithm works with a high details and high quality

What is Natami's SRAM capacity again? Define high details and high quality.

Remember, Wii console also has T1-SRAM and most Super Socket 7 PC motherboards has external SRAM modules as thier L3 or L2 cache.

Quote:

If you want then I can send you the 64MB data source file needed to render 1 sector of the map.

Sure.

Quote:
If you think you an do better with WinUAE or Picasso then how about demo competition?

Ever since I decommissioned my Amiga 3000/030@25Mhz, I don't have any AOS3 dev env on my WinUAE/AmiKit. My current dev env are MS VC++(for work), C#+XNA, CUDA (must boot to WinXP) and ICC10.

More gaming voxel papers from AMD/ATI.
http://ati.amd.com/developer/gdc/Tatarchuk_Irradiance_Volumes.pdf

Another voxel landscape (WIP) example with exe program.
http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=121363&b=8

http://graphics.cs.uni-sb.de/SaarCOR/
Hardware raytrace chip.

Last edited by Hammer on 08-Mar-2008 at 12:32 AM.
Last edited by Hammer on 08-Mar-2008 at 12:17 AM.
Last edited by Hammer on 08-Mar-2008 at 12:16 AM.
Last edited by Hammer on 08-Mar-2008 at 12:15 AM.
Last edited by Hammer on 08-Mar-2008 at 12:07 AM.

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Amiga 1200 (rev 1D1, KS 3.2, PiStorm32lite/RPi 4B/Emu68)
Amiga 500 (rev 6A, KS 3.2, PiStorm/RPi 3a/Emu68)

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itix 
Re: New AMIGA game 68k
Posted on 8-Mar-2008 0:35:04
#84 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 22-Dec-2004
Posts: 3398
From: Freedom world

@Leo

Quote:

AmigaForever ROMS are encrypted. And anyway, I doubt the licence lets you use/repackage the ROM with another product...


You can run AmigaForever ROMs on anything you want. Was it Atari ST, Amiga or something else. Of course you can use Kickstart ROM in another product... it is even legal.

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Amiga 500, Efika, Mac Mini and PowerBook

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Krischan76 
Re: New AMIGA game 68k
Posted on 8-Mar-2008 11:01:54
#85 ]
Member
Joined: 25-Dec-2007
Posts: 47
From: outside the looney bin

To me, neither a software developer or a hardware engineer, just an average Amiga user/enthusiast/fan, all of this sounds far too good to be true. Too many empty promises, to many disappointments.

This has almost driven me off to other shores. The community shattered and split into pieces following different philosophies and trying to prove one another, how stupid and wrong the others are.

Emulation on cheap, fast and hungry PC hardware just does not feel the same. And I don't want no Pegasos running MorphOS etc.

To me the key to survival has always been a new piece of hardware, just like the NatAmi claims to be: a fully compatible yet more powerful successor. It's not about outperform or outsell the IBM clone army, it's just to develop in our comfortable niche.

We could run all our old games (as I can on the A1200) and still surf the internet, write email and watch youtube videos (which is, on my A1200 without PPC & graphics card from " not much of a joy" till "impossible") - this means to use the Amiga in all its uniqueness as everyday computer.

Maybe even software or game development would start to make sense again, so we could close the gap in functionality and features to Win, Mac & Co.

As soon as it's possible for non-developers, I'll buy one of these. Sure as hell!

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Leo 
Re: New AMIGA game 68k
Posted on 8-Mar-2008 11:26:14
#86 ]
Super Member
Joined: 21-Aug-2003
Posts: 1597
From: Unknown

@itix: Of course you may use it with whatever you want... but can you *sell* a product, say the Natami, with one of these roms on it ? I doubt so...

That was the point of my question... Of course you may sell it without the core OS like the Minimig and then use whatever ROM you want (coming from a real Amiga, Amigaforever,...)...

Last edited by Leo on 08-Mar-2008 at 11:29 AM.
Last edited by Leo on 08-Mar-2008 at 11:27 AM.

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Plaz 
Re: New AMIGA game 68k
Posted on 8-Mar-2008 15:40:58
#87 ]
Super Member
Joined: 2-Oct-2003
Posts: 1573
From: Atlanta

@Krischan76

Quote:
a fully compatible yet more powerful successor


It all sounds great, but what is the long term plan for NatAmi? If I understand correctly, the current version will only be available in small numbers for develpoers using scarce CPUs. If the dev system is successfull is there a next step?

Plaz

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redrumloa 
Re: New AMIGA game 68k
Posted on 8-Mar-2008 17:51:18
#88 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 7-Feb-2005
Posts: 562
From: Unknown

@xeron

Quote:

xeron wrote:
@BigGun

The thing is, why bother? I hardly think the NatAmi will be more powerful than any computer with a recent graphics chip from ATI or NVidia and a PowerPC or x86 CPU running or emulating AmigaOS.


Why are any of here at all? It is a hobby. I use my C128 often, despite the fact I have an AMD64 X2 on the same desk.

NatAmi looks interesting to me!

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MorphOS 2.7 (Registered)
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CodeSmith 
Re: New AMIGA game 68k
Posted on 8-Mar-2008 23:00:07
#89 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 3045
From: USA

@redrumloa

Exactly. I never understand that type of question.

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_Steve_ 
Re: New AMIGA game 68k
Posted on 9-Mar-2008 1:50:22
#90 ]
Team Member
Joined: 18-Oct-2002
Posts: 6803
From: UK

@redrumloa

My C128 gets more use than my C64 (it's probably had more use than my Amiga recently)

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Plaz 
Re: New AMIGA game 68k
Posted on 9-Mar-2008 2:57:45
#91 ]
Super Member
Joined: 2-Oct-2003
Posts: 1573
From: Atlanta

@redrumloa

Speaking of good technology that nevergoes out of style... I'm still using and accessing a really slow and fragile bit of hardware all the time. I've even been buying a couple bits of really old "hardware" from the net and occasionally a retail store. Heck, there's hundreds of new ones being produced all the time though the technology is ancient and the data transfer rate is probably no higher than about 50baud at best. Read any good BOOKS lately?

Folks should stop asking "why, that's so out of date" and either enjoy the activity or go find some thing else to occupy themselfs.

Plaz

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Yssing 
Re: New AMIGA game 68k
Posted on 9-Mar-2008 21:27:58
#92 ]
Super Member
Joined: 24-Apr-2003
Posts: 1076
From: Unknown

@Hammer

Ahh yes... you kinda make me laugh.. RT Raytracing.

Personally I would just love to see new amiga HW, no need for RT RT..

Enjoy the fact that some people are willing to produce for our beloved platform.

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Hans 
Re: New AMIGA game 68k
Posted on 10-Mar-2008 2:30:25
#93 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 27-Dec-2003
Posts: 5017
From: New Zealand

@Yssing

Quote:

Yssing wrote:
@Hammer

Ahh yes... you kinda make me laugh.. RT Raytracing.

Personally I would just love to see new amiga HW, no need for RT RT..

Enjoy the fact that some people are willing to produce for our beloved platform.


It's not to the same calibre as the link that Hammer gave, but we've already got an RTRT demo, here.

Hans

_________________
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Yssing 
Re: New AMIGA game 68k
Posted on 10-Mar-2008 8:30:46
#94 ]
Super Member
Joined: 24-Apr-2003
Posts: 1076
From: Unknown

@Hans

ahh. yes... But, that is not what I was pointing at.
I think it is wonderfull when some one is actually trying to build something, and then some people complain about it. All just becaus its not as cool or as fast as the newest nVidia chipset.

I hate that... why not just be happy that new hw is still being developed.

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Amiboy 
Re: New AMIGA game 68k
Posted on 10-Mar-2008 10:52:34
#95 ]
Super Member
Joined: 21-Dec-2003
Posts: 1048
From: At home (probably)

@Yssing

Quote:

Yssing wrote:
@Hans

ahh. yes... But, that is not what I was pointing at.
I think it is wonderfull when some one is actually trying to build something, and then some people complain about it. All just becaus its not as cool or as fast as the newest nVidia chipset.

I hate that... why not just be happy that new hw is still being developed.


Here Here!

I dont know why some negative people think that a small group of people who are trying to design a "Classic Compatible" machine whilst improving it beyond what it is capable of are ever going to be able to produce some new wonderfull state of the art chipset/computer.

None of the current or old range of PCI/AGP/PCIe (or what ever then new standard is) are ever going to be able to emulate AGA properly. Nor is someone in the industry going to design and build one that does.

As far as I am aware not even UAE/AmigaForever can produce the smooth feeling of using a classic system(??)

They should just be thankfull/gratefull/happy that someone somewhere is able to take the AGA chipset and improve it to give the Amiga Classic paltform some more life (your Classic isnt going to last forever people!!!).

Yes it maybe expensive but what do you expect?

If the project comes off (and I suspect it will as they have already demonstarted an earlier model which ran ok) and even though im not a developer I will certainly save my pennies for one as my 1200 is just far too unstable. And being able to have the ability to have AGA straight to a monitor with out expensive ScanDoubler/FlickerFixer will be great.

I also understand that this system is not going to re-launch the Amiga before anyone gets sarky!

_________________
Live Long and keep Amigaing!

A1200, Power Tower, TF1260 128MB RAM, 68060 Rev 6, OS3.9 BB2, HD-Floppy, Mediator TX+ PCI, Voodoo 3 3000, Soundblaster 4.1, TV Card, Spider USB, 100MBit Ethernet, 16GB CF HD, 52xCDRom.

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Fransexy 
Re: New AMIGA game 68k
Posted on 10-Mar-2008 12:40:15
#96 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 8-Jun-2004
Posts: 2334
From: Elche (Alicante), spain



The NATAMI web page has been updated

http://www.natami.net

Last edited by Fransexy on 10-Mar-2008 at 01:05 PM.

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Make Amiga Great Again

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Gleng 
Re: New AMIGA game 68k
Posted on 10-Mar-2008 12:53:05
#97 ]
Super Member
Joined: 12-Dec-2004
Posts: 1071
From: Blighty

I think it goes without saying that I would chew off my arm for a fast, but 100% backwards compatible new Amiga.

The problem I have with SAM is that I don't see the point in spending all that cash on an expensive but underpowered Linux board. Again, i can't really justify buying a Minimig as it is basically something I already have - an A500. (Although, I expect I will get one. I have a real soft spot for tiny, cool computers.)

The Natami is a proper, fast, classic Amiga, so I could justify the price!

Last edited by Gleng on 10-Mar-2008 at 12:58 PM.

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Hans 
Re: New AMIGA game 68k
Posted on 10-Mar-2008 13:11:28
#98 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 27-Dec-2003
Posts: 5017
From: New Zealand

@Yssing

Quote:

Yssing wrote:
@Hans

ahh. yes... But, that is not what I was pointing at.
I think it is wonderfull when some one is actually trying to build something, and then some people complain about it. All just becaus its not as cool or as fast as the newest nVidia chipset.

I hate that... why not just be happy that new hw is still being developed.


Ok. I'm happy that new HW is being developed too. In Hammer's case, he wasn't actually complaining, he was questioning BigGun's assertion that Voxel algorithms can't make good use of processor caches.

Hans

_________________
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https://keasigmadelta.com/ - More of my work.

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Plaz 
Re: New AMIGA game 68k
Posted on 10-Mar-2008 13:14:17
#99 ]
Super Member
Joined: 2-Oct-2003
Posts: 1573
From: Atlanta

@Fransexy

Quote:
The NATAMI web page has been updated


The new HW specification page is a great read. Too bad a dev board is probably not going to be within my budet. I especially like the CPU slot. Wouldn't it be great to test my dual coldfire ideals. (one for code translation issues, the second for normal system/app/IO functions)

Plaz

Last edited by Plaz on 10-Mar-2008 at 01:18 PM.

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Gleng 
Re: New AMIGA game 68k
Posted on 10-Mar-2008 13:29:09
#100 ]
Super Member
Joined: 12-Dec-2004
Posts: 1071
From: Blighty

Question:

If this is 100% backwards compatible with classic Amigas, then OS 3.9, and the m68k versions of NetBSD and Linux should run fine on it too. Would that be a reasonable assumption?

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