@Hans

Quote:

I'm still waiting for documentation about the R600 command processor.

deep breahing

"leave that to me"

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"The system no longer works " -- Young Anakin Skywalker

@Hans

Have just found a :
PCI to PCI-e x1 adapter
Pci-e x1 only - but maybe there are a new GPU's that can be used with...

Last edited by Radov on 27-Apr-2009 at 03:06 AM.

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@Radov

WARNING: Avast just gave me a trojan warning when visiting that link.

If the 1x PCIe is connected to a full 16e slot, then it should work, since these devices should be able to use a 1x link.

Hans

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http://hdrlab.org.nz/ - Amiga OS 4 projects, programming articles and more. Home of the RadeonHD driver for Amiga OS 4.x project.
https://keasigmadelta.com/ - More of my work.

@Hans

Hmmm... got no warnings from NOD32, but site is downloading very sluggish – so indeed there must be something hiding:)

In case of problems with accessing Amfeltec site, there is more info:
- Meets PCI Express 1.1 and PCI bus 3.0 specifications
- PCI Express 2.5 Gbps per direction
- PCI Express Single – line Port (one virtual channel)
- Supports 32-bit 66 MHz PCI bus operation
- 3.3 Volt I/O, 5 Volt tolerant PCI signals
- IEEE-1149.1 JTAG Boundary Scan port is available to support system and board level testing
- Mechanical support mechanism for stabilization of PCI express cards plugged into the top connector
(U.S. Patent 7,255,570)
- Allows to connect two or more PCI to PCI Express Adapters together for better stability
- Price: 250$

Article

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@Radov

$250? Come on. It's a x1 connector, so hardly any graphics cards will fit without cutting the plastic.

You need a PSU and 1 active chip to make something like that. The chip costs 20 dollars. The PCB comes in at around 2, plus mounting (lets be generous and give them 4 dollars for that). PSU circuits $2 and various bits and bobs 2 dollars.

That's 30. Now add VAT, profit margins, shipping (to dealers) etc, we're looking at $50. If I made this for $50 most amigans would complain about the price being too steep, as they only paid $50 for the graphics card to plug into it.

So that one is not very fair.

Btw, I was working on something like this back in the day (except the general consensus was that it had to have two bridges, two PCI and one PCIe ports), but since the µA1 doesn't support graphics on the PCI bus it got scrapped. Now, with the flex I've been thinking of redoing it, but this time it'll be ONE PCI to ONE PCIe x1 in a x16 connector (straddle mount, like the one you found). $50 end user price. But is there a market?

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This weeks pet peeve:
Using "voltage" instead of "potential", which leads to inventing new words like "amperage" instead of "current" (I, measured in A) or possible "charge" (amperehours, Ah or Coulomb, C). Sometimes I don't even know what people mean.

@olegil
Yes - you are right. There's no use fitting such an adapter in every Amiga. But it can be useful for Hans, once he will start to work on a r700 (and future r800) Radeon cards. I’m quite sure that eventually we get a motherboard with pci-e connector. It would be nice to have a driver from the beginning.
So – at least for Hans this adapter may be useful. Now I’m trying to find a Radon HD 4350 pci-e x1 card. Such device should be somewhere... :)

(edit: Yes, I know - Hans has much work with x1550 and 2400pro already.... donate him! )

Last edited by Radov on 27-Apr-2009 at 10:57 AM.

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@olegil

Funnily enough, the PCI versions of the higher end Radeon cards are about $50 more expensive then their PCI-Express counterparts. They have to be a little more expensive at least, due to the addition of the bridge chip.

Whether there's a market or not for a $50 bridge, I don't know. I'd be interested because it would allow me to try out higher end cards. It would be good if it were set up so that a half-height PCI-Express card could be plugged in on top, and it still fits into a full-height space.

Hans

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http://hdrlab.org.nz/ - Amiga OS 4 projects, programming articles and more. Home of the RadeonHD driver for Amiga OS 4.x project.
https://keasigmadelta.com/ - More of my work.

@Hans

Quote:

Hans wrote: @olegil Funnily enough, the PCI versions of the higher end Radeon cards are about $50 more expensive then their PCI-Express counterparts. They have to be a little more expensive at least, due to the addition of the bridge chip.

It is all about volume. You'd be surprised how much prices of everything drops when you go from a 1K run to a 100k run. Also, the extra cost of having a separate SKU for the PCI version should not be neglected either.

regards,
Stefan

Quote:

- Mechanical support mechanism for stabilization of PCI express cards plugged into the top connector (U.S. Patent 7,255,570)

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"The system no longer works " -- Young Anakin Skywalker

@Radov

So, it would not be impossible to have a PCIe 1x slot in the next revision of SAM flex.

(most likely PCIe adapter built in the SAM FPGA would be too slow to be usable)

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- KimmoK
// For freedom, for honor, for AMIGA
//
// Thing that I should find more time for: CC64 - 64bit Community Computer?

@KimmoK

I think it's not a problem to have a pci-pcie brigde, but it would be wiser to spend 30$ on a better CPU (that can have pci-e controller built-in), than to make “bridging”:)

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Quote:

Funnily enough, the PCI versions of the higher end Radeon cards are about $50 more expensive then their PCI-Express counterparts. They have to be a little more expensive at least, due to the addition of the bridge chip.

Not surprising since the demand dictates the price ;)

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http://www.warpdesign.fr/

@Leo

Quote:

Leo wrote: Quote: Funnily enough, the PCI versions of the higher end Radeon cards are about $50 more expensive then their PCI-Express counterparts. They have to be a little more expensive at least, due to the addition of the bridge chip. Not surprising since the demand dictates the price ;)

Yes, which means that a $50 PCI to PCIe adaptor would get you a larger range of cards for roughly the same price. That won't stop people from thinking that it's too expensive though.

Hans

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http://hdrlab.org.nz/ - Amiga OS 4 projects, programming articles and more. Home of the RadeonHD driver for Amiga OS 4.x project.
https://keasigmadelta.com/ - More of my work.

@Hans

Quote:

by Hans on 29-Apr-2009 9:52:02 @Leo Quote: Leo wrote: Quote: Funnily enough, the PCI versions of the higher end Radeon cards are about $50 more expensive then their PCI-Express counterparts. They have to be a little more expensive at least, due to the addition of the bridge chip. Not surprising since the demand dictates the price ;) Yes, which means that a $50 PCI to PCIe adaptor would get you a larger range of cards for roughly the same price. That won't stop people from thinking that it's too expensive though. Hans

Or it being totally impractical and require custom boxes and modding to the hardware, swamping the bus.....

Last edited by SHADES on 29-Apr-2009 at 03:00 AM.

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It's not the question that's the problem, it's the problem that's the question.

@Radov

I can imagine something cheaper and better suited than that. As Olegil describes, it should be able to be cheaper than that, and have a connector that you don't need to hack to fit a gfx card into. I also get a trojan message from Avast on the board manufacturer site.

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All glory to the Hypnotoad!

@KimmoK

Quote:

most likely PCIe adapter built in the SAM FPGA would be too slow to be usable

The main problem with that is what can the FPGA IO pads handle? I don't believe the IO pads are compatible with PCI-Express signalling. Since this would be an adaptor PCB on the header pins, maybe you can get enough parallel IOs together on a bus and use a separate parallel to SERDES bridge chip to the PCIe slot pins. At that point, one may wonder why not just use an off-the-shelf PCI/PCIe bridge chip like in Olegil's suggestion, and save the FPGA for other uses.

Also, an FPGA to PCIe adaptor would likely end up an awkward installation (Prometheus Zorro to PCI bridge anyone?) compared to Olegil's proposal with a low-profile gfx card has a change of fitting more normally in the case.

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All glory to the Hypnotoad!

@SHADES

Quote:

Or it being totally impractical and require custom boxes and modding to the hardware, swamping the bus.....

A low-profile bridge card with a low-profile gfx card won't necessarily need custom boxes or hacking or any such. Imagine the backwards equivalent of this.

Swamping the bus? They make cards in this form. If it was so horrible, they wouldn't do that. THink more of the people going "woe is me, I have nothing to plug into my PCI slot". Maybe they won't see the gfx chip's full performance potential, but they'll at least have a picture on the screen... I think that's a little more important to me than whether or not the chip is achieving its maximum theoretical communication rate.

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All glory to the Hypnotoad!

@SHADES

Quote:

SHADES wrote: @Hans Quote: \Yes, which means that a $50 PCI to PCIe adaptor would get you a larger range of cards for roughly the same price. That won't stop people from thinking that it's too expensive though. Hans Or it being totally impractical and require custom boxes and modding to the hardware, swamping the bus.....

If designed correctly, such an adaptor plus a low-profile PCI-Express card could fit into a single full-sized PCI slot in a standard box. No custom boxes or modding required. See here for an example of a low profile card.

As for swamping the bus; what do you think happens with the Radeon HD PCI cards? The exact same bridge chip that would be in such an adaptor is used on the PCI card. That's the price that you have to pay if you want to use a PCI-Express graphics card in a computer with no PCIe bus.

Hans

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http://hdrlab.org.nz/ - Amiga OS 4 projects, programming articles and more. Home of the RadeonHD driver for Amiga OS 4.x project.
https://keasigmadelta.com/ - More of my work.

@billt

You beat me to it.

Quote:

Swamping the bus? They make cards in this form. If it was so horrible, they wouldn't do that. THink more of the people going "woe is me, I have nothing to plug into my PCI slot". Maybe they won't see the gfx chip's full performance potential, but they'll at least have a picture on the screen... I think that's a little more important to me than whether or not the chip is achieving its maximum theoretical communication rate.

I almost have 2D blitter done for R5xx cards, and it's more than fast enough for normal use.

Hans

_________________
http://hdrlab.org.nz/ - Amiga OS 4 projects, programming articles and more. Home of the RadeonHD driver for Amiga OS 4.x project.
https://keasigmadelta.com/ - More of my work.

@billt

I've been searching for a proper adapter for a long time. This one is the cheapest I found. Find me a better one that costs below 100$ and I will donate it to Hans...
...on the other hand - I can donate 100$ to Olegil if he wants to do such adapter

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