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/  Forum Index
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      /  Napalm Setup & Boot Script
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PosterThread
BigD 
Re: Napalm Setup & Boot Script
Posted on 7-Aug-2020 20:26:17
#41 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 5517
From: UK

@Hypex

Quote:
To match the 030 I think you need to anti-pimp it and take it down a notch!


I don't follow you because although the 030 sets the pace when both machines run at low res, game speed wise it is the 060 RTG that is struggling to keep up with the 030 once it is running in high res mode (and the 030 remains at low res)! Remember the null modem game would not run for any time at all when the 060 was running high res through AGA but once I enabled the PIV modes they gave it a boost and the ability to keep pace with the 030 low res AGA until the tank rush offensive phase of the game where the 060 struggled.

Therefore it IS the 060 that needs to be pimped, any ideas?

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Hypex 
Re: Napalm Setup & Boot Script
Posted on 8-Aug-2020 16:52:19
#42 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 6-May-2007
Posts: 10119
From: Greensborough, Australia

@BigD

Quote:
Therefore it IS the 060 that needs to be pimped, any ideas?


Sorry I misunderstood. Now this doesn't make any sense. I wonder if setting it to a screen mode based on the same resolution would help. That is use the PIV mode tool to create a 640x512 mode. And even a 320x256 mode. Both in 8-bit. I don't know if the game assets are optimsed for Amiga resolutions or if it includes chunky graphics suitable for VGA.

So the 030 only has AGA and not setup for RTG? Actually does it have RTG Master installed? Do both do?

I had RTG Master setup on my A1200 years ago that only had AGA. I wonder if this may affect speed using it. But I see you had issues without it.

Apart from that, have you tested a, shock horror, native AGA mode on the 060? High res and low res. If you dare.

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BigD 
Re: Napalm Setup & Boot Script
Posted on 8-Aug-2020 19:47:46
#43 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 5517
From: UK

@Hypex

Quote:
I wonder if setting it to a screen mode based on the same resolution would help.


Interesting idea.

Quote:
So the 030 only has AGA and not setup for RTG? Actually does it have RTG Master installed? Do both do?


RTGMaster is required to run the game even if using AGA.

Quote:
Apart from that, have you tested a, shock horror, native AGA mode on the 060? High res and low res. If you dare.


Yes, as previously explained the 060 was dog slow in AGA native mode high res and would constantly fall 2 seconds behind the 030 in low res requiring the automatic 'Network Consistency Failure - Recovering Data' recalibration. Tedious!

Is it your experience that an 060 RTG should be able to keep up despite the doubling of the resolution?

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Hypex 
Re: Napalm Setup & Boot Script
Posted on 9-Aug-2020 17:15:14
#44 ]
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Joined: 6-May-2007
Posts: 10119
From: Greensborough, Australia

@BigD

Quote:
Yes, as previously explained the 060 was dog slow in AGA native mode high res and would constantly fall 2 seconds behind the 030 in low res requiring the automatic 'Network Consistency Failure - Recovering Data' recalibration. Tedious!


Sounds like it. I wonder if anything else is going on? It really doesn't make any sense. Nothing in the WB/Startup that would disturb the system?

How would the drives compare between them? Shouldn't matter once the game loads as Amiga games don't tend to reload assets after play starts. Does the game have any CD audio or need the game CD in the drive?

Could do a speed test on your drives. I like DiskMonTools as it's simple to perform a speed test with it. Works with OS4!

Quote:
Is it your experience that an 060 RTG should be able to keep up despite the doubling of the resolution?


It should! A full Zorro 3 card or proper video card should have the full bandwidth to keep up easily. I've used a PicassoIV and now a CyberVision with my 060 A4000D. But my game testing has been limited. I haven't done much but test some 3d games. I don't think I have Napalm here but I do have Earth 2140. Strangely after a read on the case and box I see no list of requirements. It must work on an unexpanded A500 then!

If it needs RTG Master that's not a good sign for AGA, usually. A game should work out of the box. It seems okay on AGA though. So I wonder if some setting is messed up that's stopping it from writing directly to the graphic card through the driver? Something confusing it into thinking it needs to convert graphics.

Could try a screen mode speed test.

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BigD 
Re: Napalm Setup & Boot Script
Posted on 10-Aug-2020 11:20:40
#45 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 5517
From: UK

@Hypex

Quote:
Sorry I misunderstood. Now this doesn't make any sense. I wonder if setting it to a screen mode based on the same resolution would help. That is use the PIV mode tool to create a 640x512 mode. And even a 320x256 mode. Both in 8-bit. I don't know if the game assets are optimsed for Amiga resolutions or if it includes chunky graphics suitable for VGA.


Ok, created a 640x512 mode with Picasso96Mode and will see what happens. I understand that there might be some scaling behind the scenes slowing down the 640x480 high res mode. Point taken

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BigD 
Re: Napalm Setup & Boot Script
Posted on 10-Aug-2020 13:49:42
#46 ]
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Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 5517
From: UK

@Hypex

I can't get the PIV to accept 640x512 resolution as when I try and save / reboot for it to take effect it reverts to 640x480! I have experimented with trying 640x480 interlaced and running from my SD card rather than the hard drive. Both seem to make the 060 RTG run faster though I didn't finish the test because the 030 crashed with a software failure! Always the way that it remains stable until your testing the other machine!

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: Napalm Setup & Boot Script
Posted on 11-Aug-2020 17:30:18
#47 ]
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Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 11572
From: Norway

comment on last comment without reading the first, never mindÖ

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 11-Aug-2020 at 05:32 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 11-Aug-2020 at 05:32 PM.

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BigD 
Re: Napalm Setup & Boot Script
Posted on 11-Aug-2020 21:54:08
#48 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 5517
From: UK

@Hypex

Ok, got it now regarding a 640x512 P96 Screenmode:

THIS guide really helped in creating new P96 screenmodes! I just need to test its performance now!

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BigD 
Re: Napalm Setup & Boot Script
Posted on 13-Aug-2020 14:23:50
#49 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 5517
From: UK

@Hypex

Yes, victory! The mixture of the 640x512 PIV mode and loading off my SCSI2SD V6 SD card partition rather than the old SCSI hard drive seemed to help. One 'Network Consistency Failure' message in the whole game and it recovered straight away! I love it when a plan comes together

The main problem now is how much chip mem the game uses up on the AGA 030 system which can lead to some crashing. Reducing the Workbench to 2 colour and low res prior to loading the game seems to save enough to avoid most problems. Workbench can still suffer a software failure in the background sometimes (doesn't affect the game though once 'suspend' is selected rather than reboot).

My son nearly beat me again and although I was helping him I was concentrating on my tactics as well! He's an Esports star in the making if he keeps this up At least he can say his interest in computers started on the Amiga!

Thanks again for pushing me in the right direction with what was likely causing these issues! As I say, there is no guidance on RTG screenmodes etc in the Napalm manual.

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BigD 
Re: Napalm Setup & Boot Script
Posted on 8-Jan-2021 21:19:30
#50 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 5517
From: UK

@Thread

My son wanted to play this again so we booted up the two machines tonight! I still get the dreaded "Network Consistency Failure, Recovering Data..." message when the game enters the final battle phase! It's sad to revert to Low Res on the 060 PIV setup to avoid this (though that works solidly). I must be pretty close to the machines being able to sustain this asynchronous Low Res AGA vs High Res RTG network play for the majority of the base building phase to work ok?!

Maybe a purchase of the new ZZ9000 graphics card would allow the 060 RTG High Res to sustain the game speed of the 030 AGA Low Res to allow the 2-player game to progress? I really think that currently the 060 PIV lags behind (due to the higher res and displaying more of the action/moving projectiles etc) and can't catch up when the action ramps up!

Any advice or someone with experience of network play with this game? I know it would be rock solid in low res on both machines but the high res on the 060 is a much better experience plus gives me an overview of the battlefield without the need of a radar which helps me to help the children learn and work out where every thing is on the battlefield! At least that's my excuse for taking the faster machine

Last edited by BigD on 08-Jan-2021 at 09:25 PM.
Last edited by BigD on 08-Jan-2021 at 09:24 PM.

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g01df1sh 
Re: Napalm Setup & Boot Script
Posted on 8-Jan-2021 22:48:16
#51 ]
Super Member
Joined: 16-Apr-2009
Posts: 1707
From: UK

@BigD

Warp1260 if you dont mind taking the 060 of your board. needs be rev5 or 6 I think.

http://www.amigawarp.eu/1_5_warp1260.html?a=warp1260-photos


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BigD 
Re: Napalm Setup & Boot Script
Posted on 9-Jan-2021 0:33:45
#52 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 5517
From: UK

@g01df1sh

So you agree that it could be that a 50Mhz 060 with PIV isnít quite man enough? Itís a big box Amiga so Iíd have to wait for the Warp4060 and itíll be pricey!

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BigD 
Re: Napalm Setup & Boot Script
Posted on 9-Jan-2021 21:23:25
#53 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 5517
From: UK

@Thread

Itís so annoying to be limited to low res on both machines but thatís the only way to get a stable game on anything other than two 060 RTG machines I would guess! Why you canít play with one low res machine versus a high res machine Iíll never know Xtreme Racing handles the discrepancy no problem with no network consistency problems!

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BigD 
Re: Napalm Setup & Boot Script
Posted on 10-Jan-2021 23:16:28
#54 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 5517
From: UK

@Thread

Itís almost best to play the construction phase of a level low res vs high res until the game hangs to get the level layout clear in your head and then replay with low res vs low res so that you can complete the two player game to the end!

.... crazy what we do for love of these machines and these old games

Also, the tankers can easily misbehave going to and fro from between the oil rigs and refineries. I miss the carryalls in Dune 2. Sometimes itís so bad you have to just build an additional refinery closer so that you donít have to micro manage the oil tankers back and fore to the main base!

Still, somehow the game has a lot of charm and is in some ways more fun than the extremely well balanced StarCraft 2 on modern platforms. I also prefer the aesthetic of Napalm to the otherwise near perfect C&C: Red Alert 2!

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Rob 
Re: Napalm Setup & Boot Script
Posted on 11-Jan-2021 21:56:46
#55 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 20-Mar-2003
Posts: 6007
From: S.Wales

@BigD

Quote:
The main problem now is how much chip mem the game uses up on the AGA 030 system


You could try using FBlit or the native 96 driver to save chipram. It may also speed the things up a little although probably not enough to run in high res on the 68030.

http://aminet.net/package/util/boot/FBlit

https://aminet.net/package/driver/moni/Native

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BigD 
Re: Napalm Setup & Boot Script
Posted on 11-Jan-2021 22:50:11
#56 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 5517
From: UK

@Rob

Thanks. I donít expect to be able to run high res on the 030 but why isnít the game optimised for high res vs low res play? Surely itís just a case of locking the game speed to something both machines can sustain whatever resolution they are running?

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