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PosterThread
itix 
Re: OS4 VS MorphOS on the same hardware
Posted on 20-Feb-2009 9:47:49
#281 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 22-Dec-2004
Posts: 3398
From: Freedom world

@COBRA

DvPlayer is probably using old version of ffmpeg.

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Amiga 500, Efika, Mac Mini and PowerBook

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pavlor 
Re: OS4 VS MorphOS on the same hardware
Posted on 20-Feb-2009 10:15:22
#282 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 9370
From: Unknown

@Pecosbil

Quote:
latest m68k dnetc client on my WinUAE PC (Core 2 Duo E8400@4GHz) and it gave me 6,568,902 nodes/sec in OGR-NG and 6,357,450 keys/sec in RC5-72.


Correct, your PC is two times faster than mine. My OGR NG result is cca 3,300,000.00 keys/sec.
(Core 2 Quad Q6600 2400 Mhz: 18 SpecInt2006, Core 2 Duo E8400 3000 MHz: 26 SpecInt2006 - your 4 GHz CPU is even faster)

Last edited by pavlor on 20-Feb-2009 at 10:16 AM.

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Chain-Q 
Re: OS4 VS MorphOS on the same hardware
Posted on 20-Feb-2009 10:17:53
#283 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 31-Jan-2005
Posts: 823
From: Budapest, Hungary

@COBRA
Quote:
Total Playback Time: 122.357 seconds

Is it correct to assume this result also includes the previously discussed vmem copy optimization?

_________________
MorphOS, classic Amiga, demoscene, and stuff
"When a bridge is not enough, build a Viaduct!"
"Strip the Amiga community of speculation and we can fit every forum on a 720k floppy" (by resle)

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COBRA 
Re: OS4 VS MorphOS on the same hardware
Posted on 20-Feb-2009 10:51:42
#284 ]
Super Member
Joined: 26-Apr-2004
Posts: 1809
From: Auckland, New Zealand

@itix

Quote:
DvPlayer is probably using old version of ffmpeg.


You mean avcodec.library? Yes, the last version is about a year old now, and it looks to me as if it doesn't even use AltiVec, because there's no speed difference when I tell it not to use AltiVec. It's funny that nobody with a G4 actually noticed this so far.

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COBRA 
Re: OS4 VS MorphOS on the same hardware
Posted on 20-Feb-2009 10:53:34
#285 ]
Super Member
Joined: 26-Apr-2004
Posts: 1809
From: Auckland, New Zealand

@Chain-Q

Quote:
Is it correct to assume this result also includes the previously discussed vmem copy optimization?


No, the test was made with DvPlayer 0.65, which is the latest publically available version and the same one Fab was using for his tests, otherwise it would not be possible to make a fair comparison.

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Chain-Q 
Re: OS4 VS MorphOS on the same hardware
Posted on 20-Feb-2009 10:55:17
#286 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 31-Jan-2005
Posts: 823
From: Budapest, Hungary

@COBRA
OK, thanks for the clarification.

_________________
MorphOS, classic Amiga, demoscene, and stuff
"When a bridge is not enough, build a Viaduct!"
"Strip the Amiga community of speculation and we can fit every forum on a 720k floppy" (by resle)

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Jupp3 
Re: OS4 VS MorphOS on the same hardware
Posted on 20-Feb-2009 13:00:46
#287 ]
Super Member
Joined: 22-Feb-2007
Posts: 1225
From: Unknown

@ShInKurO

Quote:
and substitute MUI4 parts with proper MUI3.9 parts...

Are you trying to say that MUI4 wouldn't be "proper" MUI?

Imho, it's got many enhancements over the older versions, and even the main author is still the same.

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Fab 
Re: OS4 VS MorphOS on the same hardware
Posted on 20-Feb-2009 13:04:44
#288 ]
Super Member
Joined: 17-Mar-2004
Posts: 1178
From: Unknown

@COBRA

The remaining 44s have to be in ffmpeg version and blitting routine now. :)

Just for information, what result do you get with 64bits copy with a newer dvplayer?

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bernd_afa 
Re: OS4 VS MorphOS on the same hardware
Posted on 20-Feb-2009 13:47:56
#289 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 14-Apr-2006
Posts: 829
From: Unknown

>OS4.1:
>From disk;
>Needs 138s to play this 100s clip.
>From RAM:
>Needs 159s to play this 100s clip.

>MorphOS:
>From disk:
>Needs 125s to play this 100s clip.
>From ram:
>Needs 125s to play this 100s clip.

I dont know why it matter how fast drive speed is, i see the file have size 96,8 mb.

lets say 100 mb for easy calculating,

the fastest system is MOS that take 125 sec to play the 100 sec.It is of course too slow to play realtime and must drop frames.

now calculate how many kb of the files every second read.

thats 100/125

my calculator say, there are only 800 kb transfer every second from the file.

also it is usefull to know under which compiler the versions are compile, if there are compare diffrent binaries

for example i get some reports of gcc 4.4 68k speed.some is faster some is lower as GCC 3.4.

PNGCrush (3.4: 120s, 4.4: 133s),
CANON EOS 350D RAW -> TIFF conversion (3.4: 42s 4.4: 35s),

so to get fastest speed it is usefull to have more compilers availible and test.

especial on realtime action as movie play.if a compiler increase libavcodec speed by 25% then there are no frame drops need

Last edited by bernd_afa on 20-Feb-2009 at 05:38 PM.

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ShInKurO 
Re: OS4 VS MorphOS on the same hardware
Posted on 20-Feb-2009 13:49:20
#290 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 18-Jan-2004
Posts: 465
From: Italy

@Jupp3

Quote:

Are you trying to say that MUI4 wouldn't be "proper" MUI?

Imho, it's got many enhancements over the older versions, and even the main author is still the same.


So? in your opinion is it not portable? I've readed source code and I've found one of tha few amiga piece of software to show out Amiga world as good piece of software... its source are enough portable, it's written in modules, if only someone would port it on OS4 and on other AmigaOS... but we know, on Amiga concept of opensource and collaboration between programmers is not accepted... here there is one of the most desktop ever seen on Amiga, but many people do war because it's MUI.... and no, it is not followed by main athor anymore... On other platforms we can see two, three desktop opensource, for example on UNIX there are KDE, GNOME, Xfce, ecc... on Amiga could be Ambient, but anyone believe it could be useful... it's better to use that crap of Workbench, not multithread yet, slooow and without any MDI concept, even OS4team tells us will be totally written from scratch (and I doubt they will write it with Reaction, it could give them many problems to implement modern features), or Wanderer on AROS, which can be defined a desktop like Workbench 1.1, with sources not modular, full of hooks and not much following OOP concepts...
In the mainwhile amigans sleep a long sleep waiting a missing miracle... We should be our miracle, and to not wait miracle from someone else...

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Fab 
Re: OS4 VS MorphOS on the same hardware
Posted on 20-Feb-2009 13:58:31
#291 ]
Super Member
Joined: 17-Mar-2004
Posts: 1178
From: Unknown

@bernd_afa

I'd have to measure again with current version, but in the past, compiling with 2.95 or 3.4.6 or 4.2.0 didn't make a noticable difference on the video files i tested.

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COBRA 
Re: OS4 VS MorphOS on the same hardware
Posted on 20-Feb-2009 14:30:43
#292 ]
Super Member
Joined: 26-Apr-2004
Posts: 1809
From: Auckland, New Zealand

@Fab

Quote:
Just for information, what result do you get with 64bits copy with a newer dvplayer?


I haven't tested with your file, however there are two things involved. First of all the currently public OS4 only has packed YUV422 support, which is a 16bits/pixel mode, which DvPlayer 0.65 uses, and because it's a packed mode you can't use 64-bit copy in that mode. Using a planar YUV420P mode gives about 10% overall speedup with a 32-bit copy loop (on all hardware), and a 64-bit copy loop gives about another 10% increase in overall playback speed on the Pegasos. But YUV420P support is not available in the currently released OS4, so there won't be an updated DvPlayer with such enhancements until some update is released which contains the planar overlay capability.

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Mr_Capehill 
Re: OS4 VS MorphOS on the same hardware
Posted on 20-Feb-2009 15:09:17
#293 ]
Super Member
Joined: 15-Mar-2003
Posts: 1932
From: Yharnam

@ShInKurO

Why it always have to be "someone"?-) Why don't you?

I asked itix about Ambient some years ago and he already thought it was too MorphOS-tied back then to make any easy port. And those first Ambient versions were buggy too, IIRC.

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ShInKurO 
Re: OS4 VS MorphOS on the same hardware
Posted on 20-Feb-2009 16:11:30
#294 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 18-Jan-2004
Posts: 465
From: Italy

@Mr_Capehill

Quote:

Mr_Capehill wrote:
@ShInKurO

Why it always have to be "someone"?-) Why don't you?

I asked itix about Ambient some years ago and he already thought it was too MorphOS-tied back then to make any easy port. And those first Ambient versions were buggy too, IIRC.



I can work together with other people, I'm not so expert to port all Ambient on OS4 alone. Itix said in past that after to have ported Ambient in other AmigaOSes it could be possible to merge changes into main tree of Ambient and thus proceed to integrate new features which are into new releases... So if a group of us want organize to port Ambient on OS4 (and on other AmigaOSes like OS3 and AROS) you can add me to this group...

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Mr_Capehill 
Re: OS4 VS MorphOS on the same hardware
Posted on 20-Feb-2009 16:38:51
#295 ]
Super Member
Joined: 15-Mar-2003
Posts: 1932
From: Yharnam

@ShInKurO

So have you already analyzed how much changes are needed and how horrible patch would be the outcome? eg. how much MUI4 code, or other MOS-only stuff (Reggae?) is used?

IMHO it would painful to start with the very first Ambient and then trying to update it to the latest.

I don't know anything about Ambient but I'm just a little sceptical here. Open source and Amiga rarely match because there are so few developers and the ones left are occupied by other projects.

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ShInKurO 
Re: OS4 VS MorphOS on the same hardware
Posted on 20-Feb-2009 18:13:55
#296 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 18-Jan-2004
Posts: 465
From: Italy

@Mr_Capehill

Quote:

Mr_Capehill wrote:
@ShInKurO

So have you already analyzed how much changes are needed and how horrible patch would be the outcome? eg. how much MUI4 code, or other MOS-only stuff (Reggae?) is used?

IMHO it would painful to start with the very first Ambient and then trying to update it to the latest.


I prefer to begin from old sources, in which we should be add OS4/OS3/AROS changes to hook macros and other OS4/OS3/AROS stuff to compile it on OS4/OS3/AROS, and after try to merge this old sources with new one with svn to see where are changes and eventually to adapt them to MUI3.8+. Reggae is not very problem because if I remember right there are some conditional code to make Ambient free from Reggae... in any case Morphos team is always avaible to replies, in contrast to what other people told about them...

Quote:

I don't know anything about Ambient but I'm just a little sceptical here. Open source and Amiga rarely match because there are so few developers and the ones left are occupied by other projects.


The point is this: if we could take Ambient and make it executable on OS4, OS3 and AROS I hope a good group of people will become involved to project of open source desktop for AmigaOSes... we just only to organize ourself... programs like Yam didn't born portable, but with work of few people they became what they are now. In contrast with these old programs, Ambient sources are much more modern and modular, so they are simpler to understand than these other ones...

The real problem is into amigans mind: they have some beliefs and obsolete thoughts which make them mindclose...

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Leo 
Re: OS4 VS MorphOS on the same hardware
Posted on 20-Feb-2009 20:42:52
#297 ]
Super Member
Joined: 21-Aug-2003
Posts: 1596
From: Unknown

Quote:

The real problem is into amigans mind: they have some beliefs and obsolete thoughts which make them mindclose...

Quite true...

And if they were not so close-minded i guess we'd have only one source, based on the current best one AmigaOS and maybe derivatives, but all based on the same root source...

Last edited by Leo on 21-Feb-2009 at 02:22 AM.
Last edited by Leo on 20-Feb-2009 at 08:43 PM.

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maurensen 
Re: OS4 VS MorphOS on the same hardware
Posted on 20-Feb-2009 20:44:42
#298 ]
Member
Joined: 13-Feb-2009
Posts: 18
From: Padova, Italy

@ShInKurO
excuse me Shinky, I don't want to seem harsh, but why reinvent the wheel?
There is already an AmigaOS with Ambient and MUI oriented...
I don't want to be repetitive but if you port Ambient to OS4 you have more or less a slow MorphOS clone
Just my 2 cents, I respect your effort to unite and program for the whole Amiga community.
Ciao Shinky.

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----------------------------------------------------------------------
PowerBook G4 15" 1,67ghz running OSX (for now), MorphOS (when it's done!).

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Hans 
Re: OS4 VS MorphOS on the same hardware
Posted on 20-Feb-2009 20:48:13
#299 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 27-Dec-2003
Posts: 4939
From: New Zealand

@Zylesea

Quote:

Zylesea wrote:
@Hans
Quote:

Hans wrote:
@Seiya

[quote]



As misleading as benchmarks are/can-be, they can be used to find bottlenecks. I'd be interested to see Fab's tests repeated with the fixed IDE driver. It would also be nice to see tests that don't involve OpenGL (we know the issues there) and/or old compiles of games/apps that don't take advantage of new features in Amiga OS 4.1.

Hans


Well even with the ide bug included I doubt thet it takes that much time to read ~ 100 MB from the hd, nor that the PIO mode eats up all that cpu power. The PIO modes indeed slows down things, but I seriously doubt it is the only cause for the difference.


Which is why it would be nice to see the tests repeated with a fixed version of the IDE driver.

Hans

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Hans 
Re: OS4 VS MorphOS on the same hardware
Posted on 20-Feb-2009 21:04:55
#300 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 27-Dec-2003
Posts: 4939
From: New Zealand

@COBRA

Quote:

COBRA wrote:
@itix

Quote:
DvPlayer is probably using old version of ffmpeg.


You mean avcodec.library? Yes, the last version is about a year old now, and it looks to me as if it doesn't even use AltiVec, because there's no speed difference when I tell it not to use AltiVec. It's funny that nobody with a G4 actually noticed this so far.


Any chance of seeing it updated? Where is chip these days anyway?

Hans

_________________
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