@damocles

PPC isn't failed. The last 3 console was built on PPC basics.

The PPC still used in thousand appliance and other devices.

Let's see what will be the next PPC evolution.

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retired

@AmigaBlitter

Put it this way... in which way the last three consoles, based on the PPC, have enhanced Amiga experience?

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Amiga Developer
Amiga 500, Efika, Mac Mini and PowerBook

@AmigaBlitter

Quote:

PPC isn't failed. The last 3 console was built on PPC basics. The PPC still used in thousand appliance and other devices. Let's see what will be the next PPC evolution.

Having PPC as the basis for cell is meaningless for OS4. Even if OS4 was ported, it would be locked out of any major access to what makes those very consoles attractive to end users. Having a PPC in a refrigerator is also meaningless to OS4. Even Freescale has gotten a clue and they fired their PPC SOC sales dept because they know it's a not profitable market to spend their money in. Sony sold their cell production facility to Toshiba, they would not have done that if they thought there was going to be a none PS3 market they can tap into and make money.

Where does this all leave AI/Hyperion? In a death struggle in court? Lets say they come to a new agreement and both are happy working to push OS4 sales, on what hardware? It has to be cost effective to sell enough units to make a living for Hyperion and AI which couple of hundred boards a year won't do it. How could you expect to compete with netbooks that are selling retail in the $200s with SAM440s?

Please, enlighten me on how PPC has a profitable future for AI/Hyerion.

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Dammy

@damocles

Quote:

Sony sold their cell production facility to Toshiba, they would not have done that if they thought there was going to be a none PS3 market they can tap into and make money.

so history isn't rewritten

Sony sold the cell production because of losses from the PS3 system. They were not making money on it, considered a failure. It was bringing the whole Sony corporation down.

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"The system no longer works " -- Young Anakin Skywalker

@itix

I mean that PPC was used for the last 3 consolle was made. Millions of units was sold, so millions of PPC chips was sold.


Move to other platforms mean more investements of time and money.

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retired

@AmigaBlitter
Quote:

I mean that PPC was used for the last 3 consolle was made. Millions of units was sold, so millions of PPC chips was sold

Most of the cars on earth that have computer chips inside are powered by PPC. That doesn't matter a hoot regarding desktop processors or cost effective motherboards.

The PPC Consortium publicly gave up their attempts to dominate the desktop market at the end of the 90's. Its unlikely that they are going to reattempt to do so in the future now that they have lost their biggest customer in that marketplace (Apple).

A PS3 is just another domestic appliance to them. Like the washing machines cell phones before them.

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Move to other platforms mean more investements of time and money.

Hyperion staying on the same platform still involves more investements of time and money, unless of course they stop all further development. There is no way to move forward under any option without cost. The problem with staying and pouring more time and money into the PPC marketplace is that it saps options on moving out of it into other more profitable options as well as creating more OS4 PPC software that would have to be ported along with the OS.

Last edited by SpaceDruid on 17-Jun-2009 at 08:43 PM.
Last edited by SpaceDruid on 17-Jun-2009 at 08:37 PM.

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Quote:

Hyperion staying on the same platform still involves more investements of time and money, unless of course they stop all further development. There is no way to move forward under any option without cost. The problem with staying and pouring more time and money into the PPC marketplace is that it saps options on moving out of it into other more profitable options as well as creating more OS4 PPC software that would have to be ported along with the OS.

100% agree... But what can I/you/we do about that ?

If people driving OS development are that stubborn, what can we do ?

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@Leo

We can keep endlessly posting about it till the sun goes supernova.



Oh sorry you asked what we "can" do about it, not what we "will" do about it. My bad.

(I deperately don't want to put a smilie at the end of it, I meant it as satire)

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It's so easy to tell others how to spend their money & what to spend it on, throw the baby out with the bath water comes to mind.

I'll tell you what to do, get a group of investors together, hire some programmers & get them coding on cheap x86 h/w & make an OS that you like. As the old saying goes, "if you don't like the way someone else does the job, do it yourself". Then listen to others bitch about how you did it all wrong.

Not mean't to flame anyone, but it is the truth, you know it is...


I guess I don't understand the concept ot throwing out many years of work just to start over.

Last edited by sundown on 18-Jun-2009 at 03:42 AM.

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Hate tends to make you look stupid...

@sundown

QFT....

People will always complain.. I guess its human nature.

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I'll tell you what to do, get a group of investors together, hire some programmers & get them coding on cheap x86 h/w & make an OS that you like.

Who needs a group of investor to write an OS for x86 ?

It's not telling anyone what to do with their money, it's just make them open their eyes...

Last edited by Leo on 18-Jun-2009 at 08:25 AM.

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@sundown

Quote:

I guess I don't understand the concept ot throwing out many years of work just to start over.

Thats a concept I am well aware of since in my years of investing, thats exactly what I have had happen or made happen to various projects.

To not do so is called throwing good money after bad. And in most cases, the amount that is scrapped isn't always total (In fact its very rare for this to happen). As has been pointed out before in discusions about this subject, not everything in OS4 needs to be rewritten from scratch.

And as for your other point about getting investors together, what do you think the purpose of my suggesting a coalition was about? Its not just "a" OS we want on x86, its OS4 and its succesors.

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@SpaceDruid

Quote:

not throwing good money after bad

Now that's a concept I do understand. Bigger companies that have more then one egg in their basket have a better chance of surviving such a move. Hyperion, on the other hand, isn't big enough to do that. I'm not aganst porting to other platforms as long as development for the OS4 PPC version isn't slowed down or stopped. Kind of hard with only a handful of programmers & no money to hire others. There maybe other simpler ways to get OS4 on x86, but AROS isn't exactly storming the market.

X86 h/w may seem cheap to others, but if you're like me with no existing h/w, it would cost me $1000 or more for a good x86 desktop. You can argue that it would be more powerfull for the buck, but that doesn't make it any cheaper for me. I'm waiting to see what Hyperion has in store for us, my micro does the job for the moment, but it will need to be replaced with something better soon.

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Hate tends to make you look stupid...

@sundown

Quote:

X86 h/w may seem cheap to others, but if you're like me with no existing h/w, it would cost me $1000 or more for a good x86 desktop.

True. I haven't got x86 hardware either. I am the market Hyperion/ACube are going after-

'Classic Amiga users who are prepared to buy a machine JUST to run OS4.1 and applications.'

The problem is I don't see what benefit applications wise buying a SAM + OS4.1 is going to give over my Classic 'miggy machine and my Apple iBook G4? If someone could convince of this then I would gladly start saving for a new machine. As the months go by however and the Flex 800 stays out of stock, the more I consider myself an Amigan who many uses a Mac.

In fact, my Mac is a better candidate (power wise and portability wise) for OS4.1 than the Sam is, but obviously that'll never happen - Far, far, far to sensible to port to a widely available PPC platform that's already installed in people's homes (and as a laptop also on buses/trains/park benches)!!!! What was I thinking

Last edited by BigD on 22-Jun-2009 at 12:56 PM.

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@sundown

Quote:

It's so easy to tell others how to spend their money & what to spend it on, throw the baby out with the bath water comes to mind.

If Obama can do it, why can't the rest of us do the same?

Quote:

I'll tell you what to do, get a group of investors together, hire some programmers & get them coding on cheap x86 h/w & make an OS that you like. As the old saying goes, "if you don't like the way someone else does the job, do it yourself". Then listen to others bitch about how you did it all wrong.

No need, there is already an alternative in the wild already.

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Not mean't to flame anyone, but it is the truth, you know it is...

In your opinion it might be.

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I guess I don't understand the concept ot throwing out many years of work just to start over.

I don't see a way out of the economic box that Hyperion is in right now. I do not see the sales volume for Acube/Hyperion growing fast enough to pay for hardware and software developement beyond the current status. I do not see the current pricing as viable out side a very tiny niche market who have to monies to buy it at high prices.

How about telling us where and how Hyperion is going to go with what PPC platform to create cash positive sales levels?

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Dammy

@damocles

Quote:

If Obama can do it, why can't the rest of us do the same?

excellent point, all things being equal

On the other hand don't get me started on the "Imperial Obama"

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@Interesting

Quote:

Interesting wrote: @damocles Quote: If Obama can do it, why can't the rest of us do the same? excellent point, all things being equal On the other hand don't get me started on the "Imperial Obama"

Why would someone with a Darth Vader avatar have anything against the Imperials??

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@damocles

I guess we're in a relatively unique period in Post-Commodore history where hardware and software is available, but that ultimately this is no longer a self perpetuating market and that long term it's likely to implode. Hobbiest markets will not sustain this level of development.

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"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."
John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios

@sundown

Quote:

X86 h/w may seem cheap to others, but if you're like me with no existing h/w, it would cost me $1000 or more for a good x86 desktop.

No it wouldn't You can buy complete systems that don't suck for less than the price of a SAM motherboard these days. You only have to pay top dollar for x86 parts that are cutting edge and aimed at the hardcore overclockers or gamers.

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@SpaceDruid

Quote:

No it wouldn't You can buy complete systems that don't suck for less than the price of a SAM motherboard these days. You only have to pay top dollar for x86 parts that are cutting edge and aimed at the hardcore overclockers or gamers.

Or ARM based. If they can get the $199 level for a netbook, wonder if they can hit the sub $150 level for ARM based desktop that would be SAM level or higher.

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Dammy