@olegil

Quote:

olegil wrote: "8 core designs under 30 W" is the QorIQ P4080 from Freescale, obviously. It's honestly a bit difficult not to get excited about a chip using 30W and having a grand total of 24000 MIPS, 2MB L3, 1MB L2 and 256+256kB L1 cache. Oh, and a couple of 10GigE doesn't hurt either. Wooot

Most likely. 24000 MIPS should really be written as 24 GIPS, but that sounds kind of stupid.

@all

It would be nice if the x86 discussion replays could be ditched. Hyperion have done an amazing job with the available funds and constraints, IMHO, and the decisions have already been made. The reasoning and counter arguments have already been repeated ad nauseum and won't change anything. SpaceDruid's coalition idea is interesting; however, apart from Hyperion, there are only a few other companies, most of whom are part-time companies. Writing/updating an OS is a huge project, as would be a port.

Hans

Last edited by Hans on 08-Jun-2009 at 12:05 AM.

_________________
http://hdrlab.org.nz/ - Amiga OS 4 projects, programming articles and more. Home of the RadeonHD driver for Amiga OS 4.x project.
https://keasigmadelta.com/ - More of my work.

@SpaceDruid

Your idea of a coalition may have worked at the beginning, but not now. Throwing a lot of money at a port with no chance of recovering the cost.., well, not going to happen. Unless you can find some really stupid investors.

As far as insults, well, that can go both ways. I bought a micro & 4.1, so I guess from your post, you think I'm stupid?

No need to answer that, I'm not good with flame throwers. I don't insult ppl here, if you think I did, it's just in your mind, I just don't agree with the x86 port ideas.

The os4 market is small & always will be small. Speaking for myself, I've spent my hard earned money to support my hobby. I see ppl in here that come up with excuses on why they haven't, & they want to change the direction of os4 to suit their special needs. Anything that stops os4 development on ppc amigas is a slap in the face of those who pay good money on existing h/w. If a port was a small job, I'd be all for it happening, but its not.

I've had my say here, I won't respond to any flame replies, or any other for that matter.

_________________
Hate tends to make you look stupid...

@Hans

Quote:

It would be nice if the x86 discussion replays could be ditched.

I'm sorry because it was me that started it. I couldn't help but bring it to the surface in order to talk about the coalition idea. I tried to avoid singling out a particular architecture, but inevitably was drawn towards x86 because thats the most requested one.

Everyone is correct is saying its been talked about too much. We've had the direction Hyperion are choosing announce now and no amount of posting will change that (And if it did, I'd be rather concerned about the conviction of those running the show if they could be swayed by a few forum posts).

I should probably have ended my contribution to this thread in post #50 with the line "I shall wait and see as I have been told to." in relation to Hyperions request.That I shall do now.


Edit:

@sundown

I posted this and saw your reply before having the chance to go back and edit my reply to you. I was going to do an edit because its a post I made while emotional and it doesn't help the conversation any. I felt insulted by your post and threw some back. I never intended it to be a flame and by the sounds of your reply, neither did you. The use of "STFU" is what I have issue with as it suggest you are saying that any opinion other than your own is worthless.

I don't agree that trying to recover the costs of porting to x86 by the potential increased sales there is any more stupid than trying to recover the costs of OS4 development by restricting your sales to the PPC market alone. In fact I believe the chance of succesfully doing so is quite high which is why I raised the subject in the first place.



(Edits were made because I wrote that last part backwards.)

Last edited by SpaceDruid on 08-Jun-2009 at 01:08 AM.
Last edited by SpaceDruid on 08-Jun-2009 at 01:06 AM.
Last edited by SpaceDruid on 08-Jun-2009 at 12:58 AM.

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@SpaceDruid

I did put "we" in that line you didn't like, didn't want to leave myself out.

I do respect your opinion as well as those of others. I can get emotional as well with some subjects. Glad we got this sorted out.

I know SMP supports in the works & I'm looking forward to seeing where the h/w & s/w goes.

_________________
Hate tends to make you look stupid...

@olegil

A really nice cpu!
And then we 'only' need an affordable motherboard when this cpu is released.

@hyperionmp

is that CPU 64 bit only? in that case is not usable with OS 4.1. And who is the motherboard manufacturer?

Should we consider the words of hyperionmp as an hint?

Last edited by AmigaBlitter on 08-Jun-2009 at 10:01 AM.

_________________
retired

@sundown

Quote:

I know SMP supports in the works & I'm looking forward to seeing where the h/w & s/w goes.

Are you sure of this?
In that case this is really a good news. Looking forward to have more about this!

Last edited by AmigaBlitter on 08-Jun-2009 at 10:08 AM.

_________________
retired

What most people that route for x86 seems to forget is that all 68k emulation will
go out the door. The current OS4 apps will also not work without change in their sources
and be recompiled. This will mean ONLY newly compiled apps for a x86 AmigaOS.
This would be ok by me but many Amigans seem to be stuck in a timewarp and like
using software that's +15 years old. So for most this OS would be a big NO NO.

The author of Petunia (68k emulation in OS4.x) has stated many times that he will
not port Petunia to another CPU platform, due to it being coded in PPC assembler.
Might be other reasons as well..

_________________
/Harry

[SOLD] µA1-C - 750GX 800MHz - 512MB - Antec Aria case

Avatar by HNL_DK!

Quote:

All this designed for 45nm technology to deliver high-performance, next-generation networking services in a very low power envelope.

I guess this is the trend "low power"

Linux on P4080

@broadblues

Quote:

broadblues wrote: @thread Are Morphos orientated sites plagued with these tedious go x86 threads too? Or is just OS4 that people want to ruin.

No, they are not. I think the problem is that AOS is considered by many to be the only true heir to the once mighty brand. And because of that you have a bunch of folks who don't view it as the hobby OS it really currently exists as. And so their goals are always more towards the grand scale.

Then there is I believe a contingent of folks who would likely never buy the OS, even if it went x86, but they enjoy being agitators for some reason. Perhaps from being scarred from all the years of derision in the community. (This is just my humble opinion of course).

Last edited by fairlanefastback on 08-Jun-2009 at 04:00 PM.

_________________
Pegasos2 G3 running AOS 4.1 and MorphOS 2.0
Amikit user, tinkering with Icaros VM (AROS)
EFIKA owner
Amiga 1200

@Samwel Quote:

What most people that route for x86 seems to forget is that all 68k emulation will go out the door. ... The author of Petunia (68k emulation in OS4.x) has stated many times that he will not port Petunia to another CPU platform, due to it being coded in PPC assembler.

*If* there was an x86 port of OS4 (which seems unlikely), it would have to have a JIT PPC emulator. And if we had that, then it ought to be possible to make Petunia run under that JIT PPC emulator - maybe not an ideal solution, but a lot better than nothing.

_________________
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It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue...

@Samwel

Quote:

What most people that route for x86 seems to forget is that all 68k emulation will go out the door.

Not that it will ever happen, but thats where Aros could become useful in a coalition.

@fairlanefastback

Quote:

Then there is I believe a contingent of folks who would likely never buy the OS, even if it went x86, but they enjoy being agitators for some reason. Perhaps from being scarred from all the years of derision in the community.

Not that you were targeting me with that comment (or maybe your were, yah git ), but I long to use AmigaOS again (since seeing it in action on youtube). The trouble is, I'm currently surrounded by a variety of machines that do a variety of tasks, if I buy an Amiga then that means either redesigning this custom desk (it holds five work areas) and room to hold one more computer or replacing one of the machines currently in use. At the moment that would mean taking a giant step backwords in usefulness or a pain in the rear end having to rip up wires and carpets (unless somebody decided to make a laptop then that problem would become moot, hint hint).

And that contingent of folks who would likely never buy the OS would be offset just by my friends and workmates alone if they went the x86 way. All 130 (or 150, my memory is going), of the Amigas my former company loaned out were always in demand and now that the internet is more widespead, the people they were loaned to have all become computer owners themselves. I'm still a member of a mailing list with most of them on it and whenever I've thrown Amiga news into the ring, the threads have resembled the global warming one we have here in length.

There is a chance that if this uber 8 core chip comes along in an affordable package, then some of them might be convinced to splash out, but I'll have to wait for the details to flesh out before knowing. x86 would ceratinly be an easier sell but who knows?

In in other unrelated news, I've managed to create a strong homemade (rose petal) wine that gives zero hangovers the following day! If I hadn't drunk so much of it yesterday, I might have had enough left over to sell to a major winery and become a millionaire. Oh well, theres always the next batch, though I'm not sure if people will go for it quite in the same way given that its made from turnips...

_________________
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Google Translate

@Yssing

Quote:

Yssing wrote: http://amiga.com/news/?art=26 I know ACK is vapor. Just wanted to remind you of the joke.. What about Troikang??

Troika
After Troika posted a picture hand-drawn with a painting software he called 'schematic' most people got skeptical ( except the fanboys ) after they showed up a picture of a board that could never run most people with a brain where recognizing Troika doesn't have the know how to develop a board and they are lying more than it is needed for marketing.
The idea to present a normal PPC-PCI board from another company as 'Panda' made it worse and it was a bad idea to go on with that scam.

And does someone remember the 'Give Amy a Face' contest, that was marketing, if they only had something to sell it would have been perfect.

What they wanted ? Maybe they still want to produce a PPC AmigaNG, they only need someone who will do the work for them and someone investing the money to do this.
Before Troika announced a AmigaOS4 PPC board they ( Stegman at last ) tried to make a PPC board for MorphOS but they gave up in an very early state.

ACK

ACK first announced the 'Power Vixxen' a A1200 PPC accelerator with on board GFX. The design seemed to be possible and only a few people gut suspicious because ACk only published blurry pictures. It got strange when ACK claimed they could not sent the boards cause the manuals where missing,. Than they told us the A1200 connectors where the problem ( Jens Schoenfeld offered his help for the connectors ) but no Power Vixxxen was sold and the way how the Power Vixxen should get AOS4 was even stranger, somehow Hyperion was not involved ... hooo strange.

When ACK announced some new mother boards together with AmigaOS4 from Amiga Inc. ( the company that doesn't have any AOS4 source code or AOS4 know how ) most people knew it will never be.

What they wanted ? Maybee the Power Vixxen was really under development, but I bet it never came beyond prototype state. Maybe ACK Kowalsky was really close to start a production. Something like "PPC hardware now, AOS4 ( we will need no licence ) later",
I never heard Hyperion where working on a AOS4 port for the Power Vixxen and Kowalsky did not have any license to sell it.
And the other ACK PPC main boards ?
Maybe just a strategy to put Hyperion under pressure during the court case, something like
']Mr Judge wee need the AOS4 source code from Hyperion now, we have an customer that needs it otherwise we will loose a lot of money"

Shark PPC

A PCI PPC card in an PCI board for a A1200 or A4000 seems to be possible, but it is not OK to show people a card, made by someone else with an own sticker on it, not telling them the truth ... but a contract to use a CPU board or layout from someone else, why not.
But the Amiga PCI boards lacks a full DMA support in both directions and a CPU card on the PCI bus will never be able to access the A1200, so any OS on this card will be heavily restricted.

What they wanted to do ? Sell theit PCI boards by telling people their PCI equipped A1200/A4000 could be turned into a AmigaOS4 compatible computer.

Present

And if there would no been ACube the scam would go on ... stop what had changed, AmigaOS4 fans can only buy some relative weak hardware for AmigaOS4. The worst thing about the situation, the Pwgasos2, that was discontinued before the Sam440 was announced, was faster and cheaper. There was just a stupid licensing scheme that keeps Hyperion from developing AOS4 for it or for any other available PPC main-board, that AOS4 licensing scheme is still in use, it is the real reason why there is not much AOS4 hardware and it will not change as long as customers accepts it....

Last edited by Arko on 08-Jun-2009 at 10:49 PM.
Last edited by Arko on 08-Jun-2009 at 10:37 PM.
Last edited by Arko on 08-Jun-2009 at 10:09 PM.

_________________
AmigaONE. Haha. Just because you can put label on it does not make it Amiga.

I borrowed this comments from here (#27 & #28):
http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=38873&forum=2&start=20&order=0

@Samwel
IF OS4 became available for X86 I could certainly live with an updated and optimised version of UAE with JIT for 68K applications.

Well, as OS4 will not come out for X86 (see HyperionMPs posts) I just wonder what powerful HW will be available instead, in the near future. My A1 really needs a replacement and is barely usable now

_________________

@Arko

Quote:

the Pwgasos2, that was discontinued before the Sam440 was announced, was faster and cheaper.

Pegasos2 is not RHOS thats way its discontinued, when product is not RHOS it can not be sold in the EU, in the USA it can be soled, the difference is that RHOS products are called a green products.

_________________
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@Troels

Quote:

IF OS4 became available for X86 I could certainly live with an updated and optimised version of UAE with JIT for 68K applications.

After looking at how AROS is going, you'd have to wonder if OS4 going x86 is such a good idea. AROS is free, runs on cheap and powerful hardware, etc.. but where's all the new native AROS apps? and where are the users?

I have a handful of 68k apps in regular use that have no native replacements, so the integrated 68k emulation is vital for me. I'm not interested in e-uae except for perhaps running A500 games.

I will probably get shouted down for speaking my mind, but........

@Arko

Your "summary" is missing the fact that you can now buy Amiga OS 4.x for the Pegasos II. Things have changed, and are moving forward. We do need to see an update for SAM440 motherboards though.

Hans

_________________
http://hdrlab.org.nz/ - Amiga OS 4 projects, programming articles and more. Home of the RadeonHD driver for Amiga OS 4.x project.
https://keasigmadelta.com/ - More of my work.

@Arko

Quote:

When ACK announced some new mother boards together with AmigaOS4 from Amiga Inc. ( the company that doesn't have any AOS4 source code or AOS4 know how ) most people knew it will never be.

Now come on, we all know that AInc and ACK will bring out those boards once they've finished OS5.


...as for spacedruid's coalition idea, I love the optimism but you've got more chance of convincing Israel to form a coalition with Palestine IMHO. If you win stupid big time greenbacks on a massively rolled over national lottery then maybe buy up all those involved for your coalition ........... then maybe.

Until then I'm saving up for a SAM.

_________________
Cthulhu Saves.

@SpaceDruid

Quote:

In in other unrelated news, I've managed to create a strong homemade (rose petal) wine that gives zero hangovers the following day! If I hadn't drunk so much of it yesterday, I might have had enough left over to sell to a major winery and become a millionaire. Oh well, theres always the next batch, though I'm not sure if people will go for it quite in the same way given that its made from turnips...

I have a batch of carrot raisin and honey just about coming clear, I doubt it'll be hangover free!

_________________
BroadBlues On Blues BroadBlues On Amiga Walker Broad

@SpaceDruid

Quote:

In in other unrelated news, I've managed to create a strong homemade (rose petal) wine that gives zero hangovers the following day!....though I'm not sure if people will go for it quite in the same way given that its made from turnips...

You really need to work on your marketing strategy, I was really intrigued with the idea of a rose petal wine, but then you said "turnips, eewww!

_________________
Hate tends to make you look stupid...