@Dandy

Thousands protest against France's oldest nuclear plant

Thousands of people demonstrated in eastern France on Saturday to demand the closure of the country's oldest nuclear power plant amid a huge police presence.

Is this how things work in the EU to get “action” with your politicians?

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Organisers said more than 10,000 people, including from Spain, Italy and neighbouring Germany and Switzerland, rallied peacefully in Colmar while police said 3,500 took part in the protest against the Fessenheim nuclear plant

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Opponents say the plant, which opened in 1977 and is located near the German and Swiss borders, is dilapidated, but the government wants to keep it operational.

wrong nuke plant IMHO....look east

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@damocles

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damocles wrote: Here is something that should tell us what's happening with Cosmic Rays and global cooling/warming debate, we are at a high. Oh, and in case this hasn't been shown yet, the Briffa tree ring data set was 12 trees. Boy, throw in the other 2,000 trees, sure does look different now.

Here is a nice graph for comsic rays: cosmic rays
Does not look like latest burst of activity have affected it at all.. Still all time high since they started measuring it.

Last edited by Tomas on 04-Oct-2009 at 06:11 PM.
Last edited by Tomas on 04-Oct-2009 at 06:10 PM.

@Tomas

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Here is a nice graph for comsic rays: cosmic rays Does not look like latest burst of activity have affected it at all.. Still all time high since they started measuring it.

I think it is a good idea to explain what a graph is about if you link to it, preferably the interpretation of the people doing the measuring.

I note the qualification in your comment. As NASA pointed out the usual level in the past is believed to have been higher than currently measured, whatever that means. To NASA it means as they point out that waltzing around in Space, a trip to Mars for instance, is quite probably a lethal undertaking with all that radiation around. Maybe a Maunder minimum is the time to go. On Earth however, as we will discover before long, warming will continue - warming of the sea has been continuing throughout the last decade whatever the decadal wobbles of ENSO, and the cherry picking of those who deny this.

With respect to the link Damocles gave which you have quoted, the original NASA link would have been the honest one:
http://www.nasa.gov/topics/solarsystem/features/ray_surge.html

It says nothing about global warming or cooling of course but Antony Watts mischievous wording of the headline was of course intended to stir up controversy with respect to a very old theory that has never stood up to examination as to it's significance, however fascinating the idea.

I looked around to find out what people with neutron monitors thought they were doing:
http://neutronm.bartol.udel.edu/ a group with 11 stations
http://helios.gsfc.nasa.gov/ non tech guide to cosmic rays from NASA
http://neutronm.bartol.udel.edu//listen/main.html another exposition for laymen on the subject

The last includes a graph (fig. 8) showing a corelation between very low sunspot activity, known as a Maunder Minimum and the Little Ice Age, which I believe you are conversant with. The idea I have gathered is that low sunspot activity correlates with high cosmic ray input which is supposed to correlate with high cloud formation and therefore significant cooling - sounds good but has not been demonstrated to be significant at all so far. The influence seems to be too small compared to other influences like our emissions of greenhouse gasses, the fact and influence of which has gathered an enormous weight of evidence. But back to that graph. The introductory paragraph says:
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Do cosmic rays affect Earth's weather and climate ? Scientists are working to answer this question and to understand how solar activity and cosmic rays might affect conditions on Earth's surface. There was a period between the years 1645 and 1715, called the Maunder Minimum, when there was little solar activity and few sunspots (Figure 8). During the same time was a period called the Little Ice Age when temperatures became cooler in North America and Europe.

Hmm . . .European alpine glaciers reached a maximum in the LIA but not ours in the southern hemisphere which had their greatest extent thousands of years earlier. As is often said, correlation is not causation. If Cosmic rays caused the LIA they must surely have had as great an effect on the southern hemisphere? Evidently they did not so other factors were in play which were of more significance.

I also read an article in RealClimate on the "CosmoClimatology" theory.
http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2007/03/cosmoclimatology-tired-old-arguments-in-new-clothes/

and elsewhere to name another:
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/04/080403083932.htm
Climate Change Is Not Caused By Cosmic Rays, According To New Research

Now there is plenty of reading for anyone who wishes to spend a few hours at it.

Noel

@thread

Seems it is soon time for "part 5" of this interesting topic, so feel free to start one whenever you feel like it, and one of us in staff will lock this part.

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@tomazkid

Alternative power is people !

"That's the idea behind the blood lamp, invented by Mike Thomspon, an English designer based in The Netherlands. The lamp contains luminol – the same chemical forensic scientists use to check for traces of blood at a crime scence. Luminol reacts with the iron in red blood cells and creates a bright blue glow.
To use the lamp, you first need to mix in an activating powder. Then, you break the glass, cut yourself, and drip blood into the opening. "

@Tomas

Not too surprised with the very few sun spots. Speaking of Cosmic Rays, interesting article, and surprise, it was posted in FARS.

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Dammy

Thread continues here, part 5.

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