Bottom Line:

The SDK itself is to get a person started but it by no means limits you to use the packaged compiler and most people who already have a well-suited compiler system that will allow them to compile their source code to any computer platform of their choice will just copy the AA library and use their own compiler instead of the stock SDK compiler.

The compiler is a separate tool but not the only tool. I could use the compiler from AA1 SDK toolkit and use the AA2 library instead of AA1 library and resolved everything.

@Wildstar128

Anyone who develops for AA must be braindead or have got brain damage in some other way. Even (slowly dying) Java is better choice than completely dead "AA" which does not have any business potential in this world.

AmigaAnywhere is dead. I repeat, it is dead. D E A D. Dead like, well, dead corpse.

Last edited by itix on 12-Jul-2009 at 02:52 AM.

_________________
Amiga Developer
Amiga 500, Efika, Mac Mini and PowerBook

@Wildstar128

Quote:

Wildstar128 wrote: One of the AA developers: http://www.elysianlabs.com/ If you look around at each AA developer selling stuff through Amiga Inc. website. Could one of them be releasing their source code... I don't know.

We are well aware of them.

They have not done anything in the years we have been following them.

_________________
Pegasos2 G3 running AOS 4.1 and MorphOS 2.0
Amikit user, tinkering with Icaros VM (AROS)
EFIKA owner
Amiga 1200

@itix

Quote:

itix wrote: @Wildstar128 Anyone who develops for AA must be braindead or have got brain damage in some other way. Even (slowly dying) Java is better choice than completely dead "AA" which does not have any business potential in this world. AmigaAnywhere is dead. I repeat, it is dead. D E A D. Dead like, well, dead corpse.

So is Amiga... under your standards (and that includes AmigaOS).

AA isn't dead, because Amiga Inc. is still doing work on it. They'll make a public announcement when they are ready. My source is from someone who does know and would know.

Hollywood4 has 400 functions, right? AmigaAnywhere 2 is somewhere to that amount of public & system functions. There are possibly more libraries already made by Amiga Inc. and they just haven't released an updated version and so when they add them - it just adds to what I have already.

If I use the vpcc compiler from AA1 and use my AA2 libraries, then I just already have the tools to compile the code to the number of cpus already supported in AA1.

I'll do a test on that in the next few days (HOPEFULLY). I'll be looking for someone to test the binary executable. Don't raise hands yet. I'll be more specific when I have more information. I don't have any ARM devices but I can test Windows-x86 compiles. Other CPUs, I don't have setup any systems for these other CPU / OS platforms at this time.

@fairlanefastback

Quote:

fairlanefastback wrote: @Wildstar128 [--- snipped ---] We are well aware of them. They have not done anything in the years we have been following them.

Fair enough but some of the titles may have been ported over from AA1 to AA2. So, are we sure they are still AA1 and not ported over to AA2 and that the AA1 versions being pulled. I don't know because I haven't bought those games.

Anyone willing to check it out.

It seems that people are on the misconception that AA2 requires a special program to play the apps/games. No you don't. I compiled one of the example code to native Windows x86 code and NO player is required to play the game. It runs exactly like a native Windows executable program because IT IS. It was compiled to be executable by windows and in x86 machine language AND it uses the AA2 API.

@Wildstar128

Quote:

Fair enough but some of the titles may have been ported over from AA1 to AA2. So, are we sure they are still AA1 and not ported over to AA2 and that the AA1 versions being pulled. I don't know because I haven't bought those games.

Possible, but why? If you are not expanding what operating systems they are for? What would be gained? If someone can prove to me that currently sold copies of "Invasion" are AA2, versus early copes being AA1, that only shows AA2 is a big fail, because Invasion is not available for Linux, an already supported OS for AA2. It would be *interesting*, yes, it may show the they were *trying* at something. But that does not help to sell AA2, whose whole point is ease in OS portability.

Quote:

Anyone willing to check it out.

I think the best person to elect for that is you. You can see I fairly in that thread even brought up a possible way to see if at least versions had changed. But that would require someone having an old copy and someone to buy a new one. And even if I were to feel from such an exercise that maybe some of their Windows titles were recompiled with AA2, that will only now help solidify the idea that Amiga is brilliant at wasting time. Back in early 2008 we would have (at least some of us) interpreted it with more of a grain of salt, happy at any movement. But its mid 2009 now.

Quote:

It seems that people are on the misconception that AA2 requires a special program to play the apps/games. No you don't. I compiled one of the example code to native Windows x86 code and NO player is required to play the game. It runs exactly like a native Windows executable program because IT IS. It was compiled to be executable by windows and in x86 machine language AND it uses the AA2 API.

I am not under that misconception. I doubt that many are. Again, why is not a single app also available for Linux? There are TONS of tools to make Windows apps. Most of our community greatly dislikes Windows and are not going to care too much about using some obscure developer tool for making Windows apps.

Last edited by fairlanefastback on 12-Jul-2009 at 08:21 AM.

_________________
Pegasos2 G3 running AOS 4.1 and MorphOS 2.0
Amikit user, tinkering with Icaros VM (AROS)
EFIKA owner
Amiga 1200

@Wildstar128

Quote:

AA isn't dead, because Amiga Inc. is still doing work on it. They'll make a public announcement when they are ready. My source is from someone who does know and would know.

Do you have any idea how many times someone at Amiga, Inc. has lead us astray with talk that sounds EXACTLY like what you just said???

Plenty of guys over the years have seen the built-up sentiment of the community, they figure there must be a misunderstanding. They email Bill, he emails them back. They fall for the sound of sincerity, they don't get why the community is down on the company. They defend Amiga, Inc. for some time, sometimes a year or two. Then when nothing happens they disappear, or join the fold that have seen what trusting Bill historically gets you. The community has a *healthy* skepticism of Amiga, Inc. from direct experience.

If your source is someone like Jaime, it will have more street cred. If its Fleecy, less than Jaime but more than Bill. If its Bill it will just get laughed at. So, no games, name your source.

Don't let someone there or someone who claims to be in the know somehow make you their sockpuppet. Instead, please, have this "source" explain why there are no Linux AA2 apps anywhere to be seen. and name this "source".

Last edited by fairlanefastback on 12-Jul-2009 at 08:44 AM.
Last edited by fairlanefastback on 12-Jul-2009 at 08:43 AM.
Last edited by fairlanefastback on 12-Jul-2009 at 08:42 AM.
Last edited by fairlanefastback on 12-Jul-2009 at 08:40 AM.

_________________
Pegasos2 G3 running AOS 4.1 and MorphOS 2.0
Amikit user, tinkering with Icaros VM (AROS)
EFIKA owner
Amiga 1200

@fairlanefastback

Yes, they do intend and are working on addressing an SDK for Linux, MacOS. I pointed out to the fellow that it would be interesting to see an SDK kit for Windows, Linux, MacOS and AmigaOS (4.x/5.x - the latter is another ongoing project). But the target support for the compiling on each of these SDK shall support the 4 mention OSs and CPU platforms these systems are commonly used on as well as target devices which the SDK won't be hosted on such as various mobile handheld devices and cell phones and some other systems like the Amiga 68K machines without PPC upgrades.

A stock A500 would not serve well to host the SDK but an AmigaOne would serve better but the A500 could be served to be a recipient of an app using AA API that isn't too sophisticated.

Amiga is still working on this and had some delays. I don't know what they were, though.
Based on input received.

Your second paragraph, I'm not going to comment on and can concur with and understand from an outsider view point. I probably would be the best but right now, I don't want to spend the money to check these things out. Maybe in the future but I got things to keep my money for right now.

Your third paragraph, I concur. I pointed out that we need an SDK kit out for Linux, MacOS and AmigaOS in addition to Windows and all be updated to support x86 (Windows, Linux, macOS and additional OSs like AROS can be added shortly after), ARM (Linux & Windows CE), PPC (AmigaOS, MacOS), (all cpus also in hostless - NO OSs ), 68K, Palm OS (whatever cpus its for), and perhaps some other cpus and Symbian OS (and whatever CPu it supports).

Making each of the four AA2 SDK versions a cross-development platform. So, you can on write apps for Windows, Linux, MacOS, and several hand held devices including Pandora with an PPC Amiga using AmigaOS 4 as an example.

Of course updates made available when each SDK is introduced for those that already been introduced.

That is the idea I kinda put forward.

So which OS platform would you like to see first? What target cpus and OS would you want to see supported?

If you covered that before hand in another thread in detail, point a URL to the message.

I'll pass it on so that it can be passed on to the proper folks.

I'm trying to light some fire under some feet to get things moving along faster in a sincere kind of way.

Last edited by Wildstar128 on 12-Jul-2009 at 09:20 AM.

@fairlanefastback

Jaime. What is know is that things are still being worked on but some delays and things have slown down a bit lately. As to what it is exactly, he couldn't tell me for obvious NDA reasons.

He asked me what ports of the SDK I think would be important.

I don't rely on Bill McEwen's words only given the public's view of him here.

Not all my statements are based on what Jaime said but the statement that Amiga inc. is still working AA and there were some delays were indicated by him. Just to clarify.

As for what games uses AA2, I don't know for sure and needs some confirmation.

There has been alot of blabber by Bill McEwen which sometimes, he should have his mouth glued shut. He needs the NDA more than anyone.

Some of my statements in prior posts are speculative because lack of clear evidence at hand.

To make it clear, stuff that are under NDA, I don't know the details of and was not told.

Last edited by Wildstar128 on 12-Jul-2009 at 09:37 AM.
Last edited by Wildstar128 on 12-Jul-2009 at 09:31 AM.
Last edited by Wildstar128 on 12-Jul-2009 at 09:27 AM.

@Wildstar128

He couldn't say when, if or what they'll talk about in an future announcement.
There is a few parties involved and what they want to say in the News section of the website will be what they want to give info on.

So, I'm not going to just sit around and wait for an update to do some development and when they bring out an updated AA2 SDK then I'll DL it and play with it. In the meantime, I'll use the current SDKs and play with it.

When I bought the C-One, I bought it for what it has at the time of purchase and when they make updates - great. When I download SDL or OpenGL, I dl it for what it has not for what it might have. If I want to do something that it doesn't do as "packaged" then I can do a work-around solution or wait until they address it. I would likely do a work around and then when it is officially addressed, then all the better.

Does it bother me? No. You see how I deal with it. No qualms. Even when there is a community, you can't expect someone else to make want you want on a moments notice.

Last edited by Wildstar128 on 12-Jul-2009 at 09:54 AM.

@Wildstar128

Quote:

Wildstar128 wrote: @Arko Read again - AA SDK is *currently* only available for Windows and the stock compiler only compiles to x86 or ARM. Use another compiler that compiles to the target cpus of your choice and have the AA2 library copied over so that the other compiler can use it. Then you dealt with the target cpu issue. All I need is a Windows cross-compiler for those target platforms above.

Complete and utter ####. I keep seeing you spout this rubbish, but you've not even tried it have you?

You NEED the AA2 SDK to support the target OS, because cross compilers DO NOT translate API calls from one OS to another.

Don't believe me? Ask yourself why software has to be ported from one OS to another, instead of simply recompiling it with a cross compiler.

_________________

@itix

That was a positive comment but I understand it as You are from the "Freedom" country;)

Keep the hopes up for the OS still, Pegasos is no Amiga by the way...
It is a hmm.. Pegasos;)

Last edited by PR on 12-Jul-2009 at 12:01 PM.

@Doobrey

You say it won't compile the AA .h file with the .c file of the apps when it compiles the files?

What do you think the include command is for?

C/C++ compilers will translate the C/C++ code to machine language no different then C compilers have been doing for over 20 years.

You just need to copy the .h files to the library section that the compiler will be looking for. Each compiler has a directory for library include files. So bringing those over shouldn't be a problems. The files just have to exist where the compiler looks for those .h files in the include calls and guess what those API calls of the apps will be recognized. Geez, that is what CLASSic functions are. Functions that are prototyped in a Class that are often stored in a simple Header file.

Hmmm... how hard is that really?

@itix

woow did you figuere that out your self,
whot about amiga os 4.x is that dead and with out any business potential,its an hoppy not the upcomming revalution.

your are suporting communisem and i am gonna get retalin soon...


i am not defending amiga inc and amigaanyware. i am just putting things in there right perspective.

i too wold have some sort off intrast in AA but only if it was on amiga 4.x

anyway amiga aa its not relavant to talk about becuse you cant download the new SDK... have anyone seen anything to AA2

can someone put something made on AA2 up. i dont care if its "hello world" just something to see it go

@Wildstar128

Quote:

Fair enough but some of the titles may have been ported over from AA1 to AA2. So, are we sure they are still AA1 and not ported over to AA2 and that the AA1 versions being pulled. I don't know because I haven't bought those games. Anyone willing to check it out.

Amiga Inc. have never paid (at some least some of )the people that made the original "AA" games. There are some very good people on this site that have stated they never received any money for their titles like, Word Me Up, etc, etc, etc.

Why would some one want to work with Amiga Inc., knowing they are just doing it for free and Bill McEwen gets all the money from their hard work?

Can you answer this?

_________________
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---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Back in my day, we didn't have water. We only had Oxygen & Hydrogen, & we'd just shove 'em together

@Wildstar128

Quote:

Wildstar128 wrote: @Arko Read again - AA SDK is *currently* only available for Windows and the stock compiler only compiles to x86 or ARM. Use another compiler that compiles to the target cpus .... .... All I need is a Windows cross-compiler for those target platforms above.

A PLATFORM CONSISTS OF MORE THEN A CPU

Without OS support AA2 is no use, for every Platform that is not supported.

READ IT AGAIN:

There is no AA2 for Linux, AROS, MorphOS AmigaOS4, AmigaOS3, Symbian, MacOSX or iPhone. There is nothing in AA2 that would make it more useful than SDL, a cheaper and better system that is available on more platform than AA2 was announced for.

Last edited by Arko on 12-Jul-2009 at 05:36 PM.
Last edited by Arko on 12-Jul-2009 at 05:34 PM.
Last edited by Arko on 12-Jul-2009 at 05:33 PM.

_________________
AmigaONE. Haha. Just because you can put label on it does not make it Amiga.

I borrowed this comments from here (#27 & #28):
http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=38873&forum=2&start=20&order=0

Quote:

AA isn't dead, because Amiga Inc. is still doing work on it.

There's no such thing as "Amiga Inc.". All I see is a website. And I guess one guy must attend the trial(s)...

Stop spreading lies. There have been maybe a dozen of messages post on the AA's forum within the last twelve months... Guess if it was alive and people were developing and using it there would be a lot more activity...

It's just dead. Admtiting it would allow to move forward... Or we can wait a new full year to wait for it... and for the promised PowerPC hardware btw... How serious is that ? how profesional is that ? How can you still wait for something from them (him) ? If only they acknowledged they couldn't make it... but not even that... they just announce some stupid impossible things, and just move to something else...

Last edited by Leo on 12-Jul-2009 at 05:40 PM.

_________________
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@Leo

Quote:

Leo wrote: Quote: AA isn't dead, because Amiga Inc. is still doing work on it. There's no such thing as "Amiga Inc.". All I see is a website. And I guess one guy must attend the trial(s)... Stop spreading lies. There have been maybe a dozen of messages post on the AA's forum within the last twelve months... Guess if it was alive and people were developing and using it there would be a lot more activity... It's just dead. Admtiting it would allow to move forward... Or we can wait a new full year to wait for it... and for the promised PowerPC hardware btw... How serious is that ? how profesional is that ? How can you still wait for something from them (him) ? If only they acknowledged they couldn't make it... but not even that... they just announce some stupid impossible things, and just move to something else...

It is a registered business and has something like 5 people and the Business entity type "Incorporated" does not designate size of company but how the share-holding is handled and it is privately held.

The problem here is that people are waiting instead of doing. Too many AA developers are simply waiting and not doing.

@Wildstar128:
>The problem here is that people are waiting instead of doing. Too many AA developers are simply >waiting and not doing.


Maybe its much simpler: They don´t use AA2, because they had no benefit of it and don´t want to do business with AmigaInc. (which is clever). And it´s not the fault of the developers that Amiga Inc. isn´t able to do real business (ore break their promises so often).

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@Wildstar128

Quote:

Too many AA developers are simply waiting and not doing.

We're still waiting to see what exactly it is that you are doing. If you can't prove that you're working on anything significant, I don't see how you can slate the other (3 or 4) AA devs!