@olegil

Quote:

You mean "operational". In a raspy voice. And follow up with "fire at will, commander".

No you mean a fully "Armed" and "operational" In a raspy voice. And follow up with "fire at will, commander

Sorry I couldn't resist

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"The system no longer works " -- Young Anakin Skywalker

@Arko

I don't care about what some Linux users think, I wrote that _ I _ didn't like any of your examples.

http://xpenguins.seul.org/images/kde_screenshot.jpg

Looks like crap and so does the Windows ripoff, nothing cool or innovative there.

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@-pekr-

Quote:

I have no problem to agree to anything you said, really. ARM or x86, I don't care. PPC, OK, good too, but we should keep in mind the reality. And the reality is - I don't have enough PPC related options. New CPU offerings of FreeScale will not save the situation, not until someone takes the chance and implements new board for us.

Well said

history is "Repeating again" with Arm the "fad" processor of 2009. Last time the fad was the Cell processor. All we heard was port to cell, or port to x86. Face it, we are stuck with PPC for a while.

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"The system no longer works " -- Young Anakin Skywalker

@Interesting

Cell would be an awesome choice if a Billion dollar company would stand behind it, but without any viable and existing desktop hardware it's simply not an option right now.

I cannot imagine Acube having the man and moneypower to develop a Cellbased board at this time.

Am I the only one who quite likes have strange, quirky hardware, even if it is at a higher price?

A bit like running a knackered old classic car instead og bog-standard new one.

As for the secret project - what about a set-top box at long last? Consumer hardware to expose AmigaOS to lots of people, and a bigger audience for current developers.

_________________
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We ran 5 Recursion Computer Fairs before hitting the exit condition

@yoodoo2

Quote:

Am I the only one who quite likes have strange, quirky hardware, even if it is at a higher price?

I guess there are lots of people out there thinking like that, but in the "Amigaworld", these tend to buy classic Jay Miner 68K machines instead of Sams.

Point is, I (and I am probably not the only one here ) just don't see the "cool/sexy-ness factor" in a PPC board sporting mhz numbers from almost 10 years ago.

I'd love to see Amiga OS on "quirky and unique" hardware, but that should either be

a) more true to the original design and legacy (something in the vein of Natami, should it ever become reality), or
b) a piece on the cutting edge of todays technology, like Amiga OS on a board with the CELL BE.


Guess both options are completely out of question though.

But, hell, even a custom case design giving an Amiga feel to the thing would help. Seems even this is out of reach...

Last edited by steril606 on 18-Jul-2009 at 05:38 PM.

@Troels

Quote:

I don't care about what some Linux users think, I wrote that _ I _ didn't like any of your examples. http://xpenguins.seul.org/images/kde_screenshot.jpg Looks like crap and so does the Windows ripoff, nothing cool or innovative there.

I have to say, that's the worst looking KDE screenshot I have ever seen.

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@Troels

Quote:

Troels wrote: @Arko I don't care about what some Linux users think, I wrote that _ I _ didn't like any of your examples. http://xpenguins.seul.org/images/kde_screenshot.jpg Looks like crap and so does the Windows ripoff, nothing cool or innovative there.

Looks like a where old KDE V1 or KDE V2 screen shot.

KDE above version 3.1 looks nice, and its where configured a lot, but also look a lot like Windows, or it might look like MacOS9 if you configure it like that.

http://www.kde-look.org/
http://www.kde.org/screenshots/

I have always liked Gnome a lot, but often chosen KDE because of compatibility.

www.gnome-look.org has lots of themas and looks.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 19-Jul-2009 at 05:25 PM.

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@-pekr-

Quote:

And yes, ARM or x86 would be the way to go, if you ask me. But I am not even sure about it, unless I think more about - where do I want to go, who are my customers, etc. kind of factors.

And I have a distinct feeling that Hyperion did ponder exactly the same issues: where do we want to go, who are our customers, do we want to be one of many vendors fishing in the same pond or do we want to set our own rules and have a, however small probably. pond of our own. An entrepreneur is willing to take a risk and reap the rewards of cunning salesmanship. It is all to easy to go with the flow and have the market dictate YOU. But then don't complain aout the lack of profit to be made there. Current x86 market is, processor wise an Intel near-monopoly, with only a few players for nichemarkets like AMD and VIA and maybe one or two more that I haven't heard of. MoBo manufacturing is an oligopoly with a rather low number of manufacturers who produce more or less interchangeable products. There is little to no profit to be gained in that market. MY businessplan (and, yes, I am an entrepreneur!) would certainly circumvent the x86 market by a wide margin!
I'm not a mainstream man, never have been and never will be. Hence my choice for an Amiga: its character suits me perfectly. The cars I owned hardly ever were mainstream affairs, so were my motorcycles, my choice of music to listen to, my choice of instrument that I play myself, the books I read, the full lack of a TV set, my preferences of films to watch in the cinema, my choice of holliday locations and spendation, etc., etc.
Hyperion clearly have chosen for not being mainstream. That does not make things easy for them. Far from that. But when their decision comes to bear fruit, what THEY, as true entrepreneurs, believe will happen, then they do make money and they dictate the market!
I keep it for a wise and well underpinned plan to go the PPC route, BASED ON EXPECTATIONS REGARDING THE MARKET. Going x86 would mean they based their business ON THE MARKET'S HISTORY, resulting in a 'me too' position for them and hence a possibillity to fade into oblivion without anyone knowing they ever existed.

We may be lucky that there are different kinds of entrepreneurs, with different views to the market.

OldFart

EDIT: typo's

Last edited by OldFart on 18-Jul-2009 at 08:22 PM.

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More then three levels of indigestion and you're scroomed!

@NutsAboutAmiga

Last time I tried KDE 3 it looked that they were copying Vista/Windows 7 with all their might, Gnome still looks like Windows 95, with a few things borrowed from MacOS X.

But to quote the mighty 'Dolph' from 'LinuxSucks.org' from back in the day..

Quote:

Some fifteen years ago, before Free Software was Open Source, and before the release of the best operating system ever, Windows XP, even before the release of the pityful Windows 95, a couple of hundred twenty-something basement hackers were aiming for WORLD DOMINATION with an even more pityful concept of a command-line, white-on-black terminal operating system: Linux. At the height of their innovation, way back when, these people conceived the Frame Buffer Console Device. It was a way to display terminal text in a graphical display mode rather than the textual 80x25 display mode. Good stuff. Meanwhile Microsoft moved forward with Windows 95, which was sucky, but was far more innovative than the Frame Buffer Console Device. But never mind that. The Linux fanboys have already made-up their mind: They’re the real innovators, while Microsoft is only copying the work of others. This has been going on for fifteen years now. Fifteen years, Linux idiots laugh when Microsoft is said to be innovating, and at the same time, they keep wondering when their latest distro will include support for Cut-n-Paste that really works, and document embedding, and Plug and Play devices, Hibernate and anything else Windows has. Linux idiots are so confused by liberty and social morale, they can’t see how lame it is to create one product that is a clone of another product. They’re like these other pharmaceutical companies who produce the ‘generic’ drug once the patent expires. There is no fame in that. Nobody remembers the name for the generic drug. This is Linux then: an unsuccessful generic Windows. You’re just jealous of my supreme nickname! The Dolph Rocks Your World! But The Dolph will try to call your names only when it amuses me and not as a matter of principle. You say Microsoft didn’t invent everything at home, and I certainly agree with that. Don’t call me a blind Microsoft fanboy. But where I see the difference, is that Microsoft didn’t have a “role model”, a fully functional system that had all the pieces they wanted, placed just they way they wanted. Instead, they had to look around and borrow the concepts they liked, then take all that together and invent or innovate Windows 95. The Linux community on the other hand, is obsessed with looking at what Microsoft has done, and trying to recreate this, bit-by-bit to get a pixel-for-pixel look. There is no innovation there. The Linux community wants the Start menu to look just like Windows, the plug and play to work just like Windows, power management to work just like Windows, office tools to work just like Windows, they want to burn CDs just like Windows, they want drag and drop just like Windows. You don’t see anyone say ‘I want drag and drop just like Apple’, right? Because all you all are dead-set on cloning Windows, and this is why all you all suck. The Dolph would like to bring this argument back on track. The point was not whether Linux is better than or worse than Windows, as anyone who can see (and even some blind folk who use screen readers for Windows) will tell you that Linux is sub-par. (But please don’t tell The Dolph that it’s only a matter of time before application vendors begin producing applications for Linux, and the leading screen reader for Windows will soon be ported to Linux. Not gonna happen.) Remember, The Dolph’s point was to say that Linux was, is, and always will be a niche platform that tries to clone whatever platform is leading. Search for Linux on AllTheWeb.com *, you get 213 million results. Search for Windows, you get 521 million results. Search for pages with both terms, you get 121 million results. Search for “Linux - Windows”, you get 92 million results. Search for “Windows - Linux”, you get 404 million results. (Note that 92+121 is exactly 213.) The Dolph would like to point out two points. 1. There are more pages comparing Linux to Windows (or otherwise discussing Linux in the context of Windows) than there are pages discussing Linux without touching on Windows. 2. More than half of all discussions on Linux are also talking about Windows. One out of every two discussions about Linux, will also discuss Windows. Conclusion: Linux is a clone OS. It seems to me, that the numbers show Linux and the Linux community spend half the time comparing Linux to Windows. This is clone mentality and you can’t make that go away by saying silly words like non-sequitur. But it doesn’t stop there. That so many distros are out right copying each other is another manifestation of clone mentality. Linux Motto: Don’t innovate, replicate! Yes, Linux is a clone. Look, how does a Linux programmer know what new programming project to embark on? He or she looks to the Windows world. Then he or she tries to create the same feature in Linux. Maybe in your twisted little defensive mind you don’t consider this “cloning”. You probably see this as “growing through mutual cross-polination” or some such drivel. But in fact, you are wrong, and Linux is a CLONE created through CLONING by countless CLONERS. As you have no choice but to accept this plain truth, this fact of life, your next question would be, of course, What kind of a clone is Linux? The answer to this question is already known. Linux costs zero, which means it is a cheap clone. Now you would inevitably be telling yourself. I have reviewed all my options and have settled for the cheap clone alternative. To which I would reply, with considerable glee. Shame on you, you cheap ####!

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Rage quited 29th May 2011

@steril606

Quote:

@yoodoo2 Quote:Am I the only one who quite likes have strange, quirky hardware, even if it is at a higher price? I guess there are lots of people out there thinking like that, but in the "Amigaworld", these tend to buy classic Jay Miner 68K machines instead of Sams.

No, you might be mistaken: there is even one with a µA1, running OS4.1: me.

OldFart

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More then three levels of indigestion and you're scroomed!

After much pain, I've finally managed to read the whole thread. I also want to have my say in this, because looks like everyone is entitled to it and so am I.

I'll expose it as a set of premises and a set of conclusions.

Premises:
- Almost a decade later, Hyperion has managed to give Amigans what they craved for: A new version of AmigaOS that works on a friggin' PowerPC.

- AmigaOS4 and the hardware it runs is feature-handiccaped and underpowered, but would have been a rather interesting for the time it was announced: 2001.

- Now Hyperion announce their most ambitious project to date.

Conclusion:

- They are building a time machine to ship SAM boards and AmigaOS to the year 2001.

@Stephen_Robinson

Quote:

But to quote the mighty 'Dolph' from 'LinuxSucks.org' from back in the day..

Snips lengthy quote.

The whole Linux isn't very innovative is true to a degree, it did after all start life as a Unix clone. However, it is distinctly different from Windows, calling it a Windows clone only betrays a lack of knowledge of Linux.

However, the same can also be said about Windows. What has *ever* been innovative in Windows? Hell, Microsoft didn't even write windows, they bought it!

The Amiga was very innovative when it started but what has even it done since Commodore went down?

No, only one company has constantly innovated over a long period of time, sometimes it's introducing new technologies, other times it's taking something and making it better. Like them or loath them, you cannot deny Apple are by far the most innovative company in the industry.

Last edited by minator on 18-Jul-2009 at 09:08 PM.

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Whyzzat?

@minator

Quote:

The Amiga was very innovative when it started

No, it was not. Apple were the first to bring to market all the Xerox PARC ideas. Amiga made an implementation that allowed to have such functionality working in a very efficient way. But that's not considered innovation, just refinement.

In the end, it is Apple who made history, because of the pioneering factor.
Amiga is just a footnote in the history books. Sad, but true.

@minator

Apple didnt innovate but only copied other ideas. Amiga itself (as an OS) was not very innovative either but copied existing ideas.

But then who cares if it works?

_________________
Amiga Developer
Amiga 500, Efika, Mac Mini and PowerBook

@itix / xispo

Quote:

Apple didnt innovate but only copied other ideas.

The Apple II was highly innovative compared to other systems at the time.
Some of the Mac's ideas were copied, but certainly not all. Since then a lot have been very original.


The Amiga's innovation was how it put those things together:

GUI
Multitasking
Hardware accelerated 2d graphics
4096 colours
4 channel sample sound


Nobody before had done anything even close to that before on a single platform... it was a decade before the PC copied it all.

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Whyzzat?

- Memory protection
- Ressource tracking
- Multicore/processor support
- ...

Unix, Windows (and Mac later) had that for a decade.

How long will it take the AmigaOS to have it ?

... Do we keep looking at the past at how PC/Mainstream PC OS were late ? Or do we move on ?

_________________
http://www.warpdesign.fr/

@Leo and others complaining that AmigaOS is not up to date with other major systems.

GET A GRIP!!! - AmigaOS probably has a maximum of 3-4 coders, and perhaps even some of them are parttime coders. How can you expect an OS to come nearly as far as windows, macos, linux......they have 100's of coders and lotsa dollars to make these things.

AmigaOS has evolved quite nicely under the circumstances it had. Hyperion has done a fantastic job so far. Maybe it took too long, but today they are skilled OS coders, and are implementing VITAL AND GREAT STUFF for our beloved OS.

And that guy Thom Holwerda should recognize this too, instead of bashing a system which litterly was done by two men and some free-lance freaks. (at least thats how I understand the working conditions has been for a decade)

AmigaOS today is SUPERIOR compared to elder versions

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On Planet Boing Trevor is God

@yoodoo2

Yes ! A box that plays CD/DVD/DIVX/MP3, has a photo album, records from cableTV, surfs the net/sends email and whatever ! That would be great ! Especially when it would be sold in the highstreet. THAT would raise some serious money. AOS doesnt even has to visible to the user.
Maybe just a sticker on the front.

Great ! It sounds ambitious, is not a port to another CPU family, it WILL make alot of people happy but some not, and is was (afaik) not yet mentioned.

So it is all Hyperion said it would be.

Now we wait !

Martin

_________________
Theres a time to live and a time to die
When its time to meet the maker
Theres a time to live but isnt it strange
That as soon as you're born you're dying

@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:

NutsAboutAmiga wrote: @Troels Quote: Troels wrote: @Arko Looks like crap and so does the Windows ripoff, nothing cool or innovative there. Looks like a where old KDE V1 or KDE V2 screen shot. KDE above version 3.1 looks nice, and its where configured a lot, but also look a lot like Windows, or it

I have posted oi cause this old screenshot shows transperent windows, a feature called 'innovative' by Hyperion ...

And going back to 'AOS4 could compete with Linux on ARM' Linux is already there, AOS4 could not even compete with Linux on PPC, maybe on the AmigaONE but mot on Sam440, Pegasos, PPC-Mac, Cell, IBM Workstations, ...

Last edited by Arko on 19-Jul-2009 at 10:00 AM.

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AmigaONE. Haha. Just because you can put label on it does not make it Amiga.

I borrowed this comments from here (#27 & #28):
http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=38873&forum=2&start=20&order=0