@minator

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Nobody before had done anything even close to that before on a single platform... it was a decade before the PC copied it all.

The PC never copied anything from the Amiga at all. It always went its own route ignoring Amiga ever existed.

Windows 1.0 was released in 1985. Version 1.2 released in 1986 already had support for various languages and version 1.4 released in 1987 supported VGA adapters. Windows 1.0 also featured virtual memory. Version 3.0 added support for soundcards and CDROMS (OS2 had only audio.device nobody was using) and 3.1 released in 1992 added support for truetype fonts. In 1994 they got the official TCP/IP stack -- by then Commodore was already dead. Maybe paying customers found TCP/IP stack support in Windows more important than screen dragging on Amiga...

Amiga was innovative at its time by putting cool things togehter -- I can agree with that -- but it stopped to Kickstart version 1.0. Of course it was partially due to limited developer resources when they had only few developers working on the OS.

Last edited by itix on 19-Jul-2009 at 09:51 AM.

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I didn't have time to read through the entire thread, so sorry if this has been mentioned (and possibly shot down) already. I think they are probably working on a rewrite of workbench. It is much needed.

However, what I hope for is a new version of AOS based on DragonflyBSD, with the old Exec running as a vkernel. Dillon & co would take care of the x86 version, and Hyperion could maintain the PPC port.
Technically, they would not be porting AOS to other hardware

I'm sure Mr. Dillon would like to see this as well

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@Leo and others complaining that AmigaOS is not up to date with other major systems.

I'm not complaining it's not up to date.

I'm complaining most people here live 25 years in the past. As if Amiga was still innovative, everything else still sucked and was primitive,... The reality is that it stopped behind innovative a long long time ago.

By living this way there's no way the OS will improve and can catch anything it... That's what I'm complaining about.

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it's maybe something like this?


http://cid-62ee0eab9e6886c5.spaces.live.com/

@amitv

What ??

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@Tomppeli

Quote:

Tomppeli wrote: @Interesting Quote: The idea of separating the AmigaOS from "custom" hardware, and using off the shelf Components has been a total mistake by Amiga Inc. It was this community who were whining why Amiga turbo cards and zorro cards were so expensive and why can't we have PCI ports instead to use cheap x86 PC hardware which you can find from any local stores. And that was 15 years ago. (Do anybody remember that Walker had one PCI slot.) Btw. There was one Finnish group 10 years ago, was they called Bitboys or something like that (they're doing consulting nowadays), who said their gfx chip was many times faster than any other chip (inc. ATI & nvidia) of that time. But they couldn't sell their chip to anybody because other manufacturers had spent a lot of money into their own solutions already. So if there was any Amiga company with millions of money back then they could buy that chip maker and that way Amiga would have unique custom chip again which was ahead of x86 PC technology (of that time).

In 2006, Bitboys Oy was assimilated by ATI. Since ATI created its own Xenos based IP for the mobile market, ATI then sold this division to QualComm in Jan 2009.

In Sep 1999, BitBoys's announced a DirectX 7/OpenGL1.2 class Glaze3D and plan to be available in Q1 2000. Around August 2000, release schedule slipped again. It was then pushed to 2001.

Meanwhile, in April 2000, NVIDIA releases Geforce 2 GTS. In Feb 2001, NVIDIA releases Geforce 3 Ti i.e. first DirectX 8.0 GPU. By this time, BitBoys mirrored 3DFX in terms being behind Direct3D’s feature set. Soon after Geforce FX’s release, 3DLabs releases a programmable 200 GFLOPs VLIW based GPU monster. NV2A/Geforce 4 Ti has 80 GFLOPs from programmable and fix functions.

ATI followed NVIDIA until Radeon 9700 i.e. NVIDIA !@#$ with Geforce FX.

BitBoy's never had the chance. BitBoys is all “bark and no bite”.

Last edited by Hammer on 19-Jul-2009 at 12:41 PM.
Last edited by Hammer on 19-Jul-2009 at 12:35 PM.
Last edited by Hammer on 19-Jul-2009 at 12:25 PM.

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@Leo

Quote:

Quote: @Leo and others complaining that AmigaOS is not up to date with other major systems. I'm not complaining it's not up to date. I'm complaining most people here live 25 years in the past. As if Amiga was still innovative, everything else still sucked and was primitive,... The reality is that it stopped behind innovative a long long time ago. By living this way there's no way the OS will improve and can catch anything it... That's what I'm complaining about.

Exactly. Could not agree more. I thing the problem lies in complete lack of general principles that allow for accepting changes without feeling "unAmigan". The inventors of Smalltalk, the language/system that Xerox PARC developers used for creating modern computing has some principles. That "philosophy" can be read here. Those "principles" are some general rules they followed through various generations of ST systems. The implementation, the user interface conventions, all technical things can change, but those principles rule supreme.

In the UNIX world they have principles, also. Some are more general than others, but flexible enough to have allowed the plethora of UNIX systems we have known over the years.They make sense in their context and are quite different from those of modern GUI systems. Apple has undoubtly strong design principles, these ones refer to the user interface and are, perhaps, too especific to make my point, but there is the idea of "friendliness" underlining it all, and that's a general principle that is worth following when you sell computers to ordinary people.
This is the kind of reference the Amiga lacks. Without it, any change you do the system has to be justified by its former success on another platform. If every feature you add to AmigaOS is already found in other systems, you are just a copycat and hardly innovative. So there is a fundamental problem in this community that will never be resolved. The result of this is that it only serves nostalgia and nothing else.

Well, I think major changes are needed, like Apple went through with OSX. The problem is people are against changes. Anything really new would be copying Windows/Mac/Linux and/or make AmigaOS incomaptible with older software with some extent. That's something people do not accept. But without it we're stuck in the past...

As for the CPU, I think it really doesn't matter... The hardware battle has been won a long time ago by intel... There's no need to waste resources here. So either we go mobile devices, and ARM is the way to go. Either we stick to desktop/server, and obvsiously x86 is the way to go. There's really no need to argue.

That being said, we may stick to current API, and PowerPC. But that means we're stuck again... and we'll likely be forever...

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@Stephen_Robinson

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Last time I tried KDE 3 it looked that they were copying Vista/Windows 7 with all their might, Gnome still looks like Windows 95

KDE definitely copies a lot of Windows2000 and MacOS9 looks.
Gnome does as well, Gnome has stuff win95/98/2000 does not, for example the you can categorized icons whit tags, the tags are shown as images that are placed on top of the icons.
Where beautiful PNG icons and gardens and textures, nothing like 8bit 256 colors icons in Win95.

Gnome and KDE are definitely not ugly, unless you run old version or configured like that.

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LinuxSucks.org

Okay that site is not where constructive, maybe we should stop dragging Linux in to this thread, I like Linux for some things hate it for other things, and think we should debate it better to start new thread for it, as there are many things wrong and right about it, and I guess every one that have used it will have there own view on it.

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@minator

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The whole Linux isn't very innovative is true to a degree, it did after all start life as a Unix clone. However, it is distinctly different from Windows, calling it a Windows clone only betrays a lack of knowledge of Linux.

What happened was that Linux became influenced by people / developers who were accustomed to using Windows 95/98/200/XP, start button, taskbar, and the looks were on the way exported from Windows. I do not think it would be appropriate to give in to any influence from outside, when doing so would kill something that is unique to AmigaOS, and which users due to use the OS over anything else.

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Microsoft didn't even write windows, they bought it!

Your thinking about MSDOS, not Windows.

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@Arko

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I have posted oi cause this old screenshot shows transperent windows, a feature called 'innovative' by Hyperion ...

Well yes first Linux desktops used fake transparency, if you look at early desktops, it looks transparent because background image is copied in the terminals whit darkened look, but look closely you will not see windows under it, or the icons form the desktop, this technique was slow, and when terminal scrolled the texture scrolled whit it, and after 0.5s it was coped again from desktop image.

Hardware acculturated transparency is where new in Linux/MacOS/Window, as it happens that was also easy to implement in AmigaOS, so it was in AmigaOS4.1.

Rounded corner windows was not possibility in AmigaOS until AmigaOS4.0, customize windows become possible whit overlay support, overlay is hardware layering, Windows95 supported this, overlaying was / is used often when you playback videos even to day in windows.

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wrong thread

Last edited by Al4 on 19-Jul-2009 at 06:35 PM.

How about getting it running on the Atom processor?

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@1Mouse

either ARM or intel x86/64 would be good places to go. ARM has the low price factor and probably will make a debut with pegatron this year.

ARM would mean scope to put OS4x on phones, PDA'S, netbooks, i dunno about stbs. ARM gets faster by further work on it.

@Al4

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I really hope that Hyperion are working on ARM,

Do you think spending 5 years rewriting to OS slower CPU is good time spent, when there are so many things that can be worked on in API?

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though. PPC doesn't seem to have much of a future in the consumer market.

Are you kidding? Lots of new graphic cards have CELL cpu's and PowerPC is still used in embedded market, and IBM worksations, and server parks, and every thing else that does not require windows.

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I think ARM and Amiga (OS4.1) is probably a good match - a light OS and power-efficient processor on a board.

Not at all, it has to be x86 if anything, but lets just forget about it.

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I've only seen pictures of OS4 and read about it.

You should buy Sam440 flex if you truly believe in AmigaOS.

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I also like the original Amiga. I think that "classic" is a poor word to use to describe it, and this will be more so when it goes at a "proper" speed as Natami.

Classic Amiga is 256 colors, HAM8 is 64x64x64 = 262144
slow IDE drives, and expedition slots, 4 x 8bit channels when combined became 2 x 14bit channels.

The Classic Amiga's are relics from the time when RAM was expensive and CPU's where not as powerful, custom chips acceleration where needed because CPU's where too slow, there for some of chips worked as individual co preprocessors like Copper that did have its own machine codes.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 19-Jul-2009 at 07:58 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 19-Jul-2009 at 07:56 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 19-Jul-2009 at 07:54 PM.

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@NutsAboutAmiga

HAM8 is 64x64x64 = 262144

@pavlor

Ok thanks.

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@Metalheart

i mean: could be something releated to a workbench enanchement like the AB Rainbow

@amitv

Yeah.... but what is that 'workbench' text in that picture about ??

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Theres a time to live but isnt it strange
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@amitv

I don't understand the image at all, OS4 already support transparency.

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